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Thread: Denny Solomona contract

  1. #1
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    Cool Denny Solomona contract

    Forget Brexit at the High Court, if Sale RU are allowed to get away with this the game will be weakened and all clubs at even more risk of losing talent.

    Can't believe that Solomona can just walk away - surely there will be claims against him personally and Cas will go for an injunction to stop him playing for Sale

    Interesting and worrying situation .

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37908110

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    Ont thing is for certain, Andy Clarke should no longer be able to represent Rugby League players

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    How long have these lads signed contracts at Saints for. Ashworth, Bailey, Wellington, Spedding, Grace, Davies. Richardson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pramtown View Post
    How long have these lads signed contracts at Saints for. Ashworth, Bailey, Wellington, Spedding, Grace, Davies. Richardson.
    When is Cunningham's contract up, is it the end of next year.

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    I am surprised this issue has not raised more responses as I do believe that the outcome of this debacle could have implications beyond RL.
    I have no knowledge of how contracts work and my thoughts are those of a layman and am aware that sports contracts seem to have rules that don't appear to apply anywhere else.
    The things that come to mind are.
    1. If the player retires from the sport, does he have to pay off his contract?
    2. If the players retires from 'a' sport and his contract becomes nullified can the same player decide to 'un' retire say a year later and enter ( in this case) RL again?
    3. If this is allowed it will surely make all contracts worthless, especially if you can 'un' retire.
    4. Specific to RL. Would a player be able to 'retire' from RL and then 'un' retire into NRL which are run differently? If yes guess the 'going home for family reasons' will have a 'bed fellow' when players want to leave.
    5. Could other sports be affected? Can a footballer use the same reason but resume playing for another club in another country? Although I guess Europe has a set of rules.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I am surprised this issue has not raised more responses as I do believe that the outcome of this debacle could have implications beyond RL.
    I have no knowledge of how contracts work and my thoughts are those of a layman and am aware that sports contracts seem to have rules that don't appear to apply anywhere else.
    The things that come to mind are.
    1. If the player retires from the sport, does he have to pay off his contract?
    2. If the players retires from 'a' sport and his contract becomes nullified can the same player decide to 'un' retire say a year later and enter ( in this case) RL again?
    3. If this is allowed it will surely make all contracts worthless, especially if you can 'un' retire.
    4. Specific to RL. Would a player be able to 'retire' from RL and then 'un' retire into NRL which are run differently? If yes guess the 'going home for family reasons' will have a 'bed fellow' when players want to leave.
    5. Could other sports be affected? Can a footballer use the same reason but resume playing for another club in another country? Although I guess Europe has a set of rules.
    It's an interesting situation, and I'm not sure how it will pan out. Hopefully all three clubs will get compensated properly for the players leaving. On the point of switching sports I seem to remember Ray (or Roy) Heaney leaving Bolton and playing on the wing for Wigan (not the Latics)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I am surprised this issue has not raised more responses as I do believe that the outcome of this debacle could have implications beyond RL.
    I have no knowledge of how contracts work and my thoughts are those of a layman and am aware that sports contracts seem to have rules that don't appear to apply anywhere else.
    The things that come to mind are.
    1. If the player retires from the sport, does he have to pay off his contract?
    2. If the players retires from 'a' sport and his contract becomes nullified can the same player decide to 'un' retire say a year later and enter ( in this case) RL again?
    3. If this is allowed it will surely make all contracts worthless, especially if you can 'un' retire.
    4. Specific to RL. Would a player be able to 'retire' from RL and then 'un' retire into NRL which are run differently? If yes guess the 'going home for family reasons' will have a 'bed fellow' when players want to leave.
    5. Could other sports be affected? Can a footballer use the same reason but resume playing for another club in another country? Although I guess Europe has a set of rules.
    I think the RFL/SL and NRL have a reciprocal agreement to govern movements between the two competitions.

    There isn't such an agreement between the RFL and RFU - and, in fairness to the Rah-Rah wallahs, in the past when they've recruited from RL, they've either paid compensation to the club (if the player was still under contract) or waited for the player to be out of contract.

    I suspect that Sale are being supported from higher up the RU chain, to run a bit of a test case with Solomona, with a view to RU forcing open some floodgates to target RL - not just to bring across good players, but to weaken & damage RL.

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    The question that sticks out for me is. What stops a player retiring (if the situation falls in Solomonas favour) from his sport thus ending his contract and then 'un' retiring a short time later making himself available to another club in the same sport?
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    The question that sticks out for me is. What stops a player retiring (if the situation falls in Solomonas favour) from his sport thus ending his contract and then 'un' retiring a short time later making himself available to another club in the same sport?
    Perhaps a club retains a retired player's registration with that sport's governing body?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    The question that sticks out for me is. What stops a player retiring (if the situation falls in Solomonas favour) from his sport thus ending his contract and then 'un' retiring a short time later making himself available to another club in the same sport?
    The only way to stop this is to stop players coming out of "retirement". Once you retire from RL there is no way back for you. Given the high failure rate of RL-to-RU converts in recent years, it would certainly make players think twice about just walking out of their RL contract.
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    I wonder what Sale/RFU's reaction would be if Josh Charnley "retired" from Rugby Union to sign for Warrington?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I think the RFL/SL and NRL have a reciprocal agreement to govern movements between the two competitions.

    There isn't such an agreement between the RFL and RFU - and, in fairness to the Rah-Rah wallahs, in the past when they've recruited from RL, they've either paid compensation to the club (if the player was still under contract) or waited for the player to be out of contract.

    I suspect that Sale are being supported from higher up the RU chain, to run a bit of a test case with Solomona, with a view to RU forcing open some floodgates to target RL - not just to bring across good players, but to weaken & damage RL.
    Why would they bother doing that? We are doing a pretty good job of it ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hemmings' Wig View Post
    The only way to stop this is to stop players coming out of "retirement". Once you retire from RL there is no way back for you. Given the high failure rate of RL-to-RU converts in recent years, it would certainly make players think twice about just walking out of their RL contract.
    This. Make it a sine die "offence". The fact is we can't compete financially so we need to protect ourselves in some other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakariki View Post
    Why would they bother doing that? We are doing a pretty good job of it ourselves.
    Touche!


    Seriously, they may spy an opportunity given the increasingly boring gameplay on offer, the continuing demise of the international game (the bright point of Scotland's game with NZ apart), and falling SL attendances overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amsterdam dan View Post
    This. Make it a sine die "offence". The fact is we can't compete financially so we need to protect ourselves in some other way.
    I disagree entirely - it smacks of the sort of 'sporting apartheid' that the Yawnion people imposed on players who tried League, which me and many thousands of others railed against for decades.

    To introduce such a thing would be rank hypocrisy.

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    Didn't we used to do that with Australian based players? Or I might have dreamt it or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I disagree entirely - it smacks of the sort of 'sporting apartheid' that the Yawnion people imposed on players who tried League, which me and many thousands of others railed against for decades.

    To introduce such a thing would be rank hypocrisy.
    It would, but what options do we have at the moment? We don't have the money or the leadership to sort our own house out so where do we go? Keep haemoraging player to union whilst they're safe in the knowledge that they will be welcomed back with open arms should it go tits up for them.

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    RL is dying (in this country anyway) - and players are obviously realising this, so doing what they can to ensure they get a good pay day before retirement comes around.

    And until the RFL realise it and fix it somehow, this is always going to happen, especially if there are no major repercussions or financial impact to Sale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    RL is dying (in this country anyway) - and players are obviously realising this, so doing what they can to ensure they get a good pay day before retirement comes around.

    And until the RFL realise it and fix it somehow, this is always going to happen, especially if there are no major repercussions or financial impact to Sale.
    There is certainly a problem here that goes beyond an individual seeking to break his contract. I'm not sure you can apportion blame purely to the RFL, though (although they should take a hefty share).

    A major problem here is clearly the salary cap. It has effectively been reduced by about a third over the last fifteen years or so once inflation is taken into account, while our rival competitions have continued to grow at a hell of a pace, and pay their players accordingly.

    The level of the salary cap has been repeatedly kept where it is not by the RFL but by our club chairmen, who vote on such matters. Naturally, when asked 'do you want to increase your staffing bill?', they tend to answer 'no'. These chickens have now come home to roost, though, as the disparity between the level of pay in SL and in our rival codes/competitions has now reached such a level that it makes financial sense for a player to walk out on a contract. Even if they end up having to pay out to their club in the end, they'll still end up better off financially.

    The players, too, should take a share of blame for the situation. If you look at the NRL, the players are getting better deals across the board all the time because there is a strong player's union that makes sure their interests are looked after. I'm sure the same applies in RU, too. Jon Wilkin made a much-ridiculed attempt to set one up over here a few years ago, and there wasn't enough interest from the players to keep it running. Really, they should be outraged that as a group their wage has not only been restricted but reduced by a third over the last 15 years, but nobody has done anything about it.

    The first thing that needs to happen is that Cas need to win this specific battle, as the floodgates could open if they don't. After that, though, the game - that is, the governing body, the clubs and the players - needs to have a good look at its priorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Touche!


    Seriously, they may spy an opportunity given the increasingly boring gameplay on offer, the continuing demise of the international game (the bright point of Scotland's game with NZ apart), and falling SL attendances overall.
    You're absolutely right. Kick a man while he's down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    The question that sticks out for me is. What stops a player retiring (if the situation falls in Solomonas favour) from his sport thus ending his contract and then 'un' retiring a short time later making himself available to another club in the same sport?
    Thats effectively what happened with Rangi Chase. Retired from RL with salford but then comes out of retirement and signed for Cas on a free. They basically want it both ways. I think the retirement issue is a loophole that needs closing. The Solomona case is a different matter. Effectively it could open a massive can of worms.

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    Heard on 5 live last night that London Welsh who operate in the RU Championship are likely to go into administration next week due to "an unsustainable business model" and are likley to go out of business.
    We always assume that RU is awash with money but this illustrates that they do face similar problems as our game to a degree.

    If the historical divisions were not so masssive and games so different it would make far more sense to have one solid rugby code!

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    I suspect that Sale are being supported from higher up the RU chain, to run a bit of a test case with Solomona, with a view to RU forcing open some floodgates to target RL - not just to bring across good players, but to weaken & damage RL.


    That is exactly what it is. Sale either get the player for a transfer player they have budgeted for and perhaps some legal costs (possibly underwritten) or they get a retired player for nothing and open the floodgates.

    Given the profile of judges in this country I wouldnt bank on a ruling for Cas from some Old Etonian, rugger chap

    Union are never going to sign a reciprocity agreement as the flow of the better players is one way these days.

    Those Union apologists who thought the bad old bigotry days were gone need to look closely at this as major implications

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    No indeed, not all the RFL's fault, but I (and most fans) do feel they could/should have done a lot more with the game in the last 10 years or so - most would agree RL has gone backwards in recent years.

    The salary cap does not help, we know that, and when chairmen vote to keep as is or reduce, then this is the situation we end up in - you pay peanuts you get monkeys, as the saying goes. And I think we are seeing that now with the lack of talent coming through and staying in the game, or the lack of big name NRL players coming over here, or finally any talent we do have in RL actually staying with RL and not going to RU or taking the Hayne choice and trying the NFL in order to boost the paltry income they will get from RL - and when I say paltry, I am comparing it to other sports in this country where salaries seem to be jumping up massively as the sport grows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Heard on 5 live last night that London Welsh who operate in the RU Championship are likely to go into administration next week due to "an unsustainable business model" and are likley to go out of business.
    We always assume that RU is awash with money but this illustrates that they do face similar problems as our game to a degree.

    If the historical divisions were not so masssive and games so different it would make far more sense to have one solid rugby code!
    Paul, I think it WILL happen, maybe not in my lifetime BUT the t.v. companies will but an offer that is too good to be refused. What the game will actually look like I don't know, interesting times ahead methinks.

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