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Thread: Club and Supporter relations

  1. #26
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Define failure. The club isn't going to do a Bradford on or off the field and looks set to be a reasonably solid contender for a Top 4 spot for the foreseeable future.



    Failure for McManus would be for the club to suffer some financial calamity which is unlikely, whilst failure for Cunningham would be to take a team that finished 1st and turn them into a team that finishes 4th for two years, playing uninspiring dirge every week! Given that that's already happened and he's safe with a nice contract and freedom to treat us all like idiots despite the drop in league position, drop in crowds and drop in on field creativity I'm not sure how failure would cost him really!

    The fact that this mediocrity is not seen as failure already is one of the reasons why fans of a certain viewpoint get so irked, especially when the top dogs at the club tell us that everything is great.

    Precisely. I just see the same old guff coming out of the club and more failure when it counts

  2. #27
    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Define failure. The club isn't going to do a Bradford on or off the field and looks set to be a reasonably solid contender for a Top 4 spot for the foreseeable future.



    Failure for McManus would be for the club to suffer some financial calamity which is unlikely, whilst failure for Cunningham would be to take a team that finished 1st and turn them into a team that finishes 4th for two years, playing uninspiring dirge every week! Given that that's already happened and he's safe with a nice contract and freedom to treat us all like idiots despite the drop in league position, drop in crowds and drop in on field creativity I'm not sure how failure would cost him really!

    The fact that this mediocrity is not seen as failure already is one of the reasons why fans of a certain viewpoint get so irked, especially when the top dogs at the club tell us that everything is great.
    I guess we're back to targets again? ;o)

    ...I did mean failing as Bradford have.

  3. #28
    Learning All The Songs yogi bear's Avatar
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    For me this issue has spiralled since Mike Rush took his role, he got this job by doing 'well' in youth development 10 years ago but lets be honest with the amount of investment Saints put in to it then it's not the hardest job in the world (like being Celtic manager a few years ago) at the time only Saints Wigan and maybe Leeds put anything like the resource in to it.

    How that qualifies you to be the main man is beyond me - and he is failing in many areas, this makes statements made by the spokespeople like KC seem like we're just winging it with no long term plan. Lord Lucan has made more appearances than Rush over the last 2 years where as in better times he was on TV more than Carol Vorderman.

  4. #29
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    Fundamentally I am amazed that the club does not have a formal supporters club recognised and embraced by the club.Just think of the bar income at monthly meetings with properly organised evening and a proper agenda agreed for discussion?

    I am not aware of the history of Saints supporters clubs but I assume someone has caused bad blood for the club not to want to go in this direction.

    I know the club want to expand on the 'be in that number' etc and it would only seem a short step to start that as a basic supporters club with use of the facilities and bars occassionally. We must be missing a trick here.

    I would love to know the clubs position on this?
    Learned comment from The Don

  5. #30
    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Define failure. The club isn't going to do a Bradford on or off the field and looks set to be a reasonably solid contender for a Top 4 spot for the foreseeable future.



    Failure for McManus would be for the club to suffer some financial calamity which is unlikely, whilst failure for Cunningham would be to take a team that finished 1st and turn them into a team that finishes 4th for two years, playing uninspiring dirge every week! Given that that's already happened and he's safe with a nice contract and freedom to treat us all like idiots despite the drop in league position, drop in crowds and drop in on field creativity I'm not sure how failure would cost him really!

    The fact that this mediocrity is not seen as failure already is one of the reasons why fans of a certain viewpoint get so irked, especially when the top dogs at the club tell us that everything is great.
    OK. I'll have another go at this. I didn't have much time last night, and my original thought was of 'doing a Bradford'.
    In a way, you have answered your own question with the issues you list, although much depends on where the club have drawn the lines, or 'targets' if you like.
    The club will have such 'targets'. I expect many more than they will make public.
    We've already talked about the top 4 finish. That one didn't fail, so KC can breath again, but we don't know what would have happened if we had finished outside the 4, or even missed the top 8.

    Crowd numbers will almost certainly be a target, and obviously, that will link into income. Perhaps not a financial calamity, but something that EM and the board will be worrying about if it continues to fall. I don't know the figures, or what other factors the club will consider when measuring them, but they will be looking at this. Ditto for sales of season tickets, shirts etc.
    All of these could be seen to 'fail' if targets are not met, and someone will be answerable.

    On field creativity is a tougher on to measure, particularly if the club are still getting results, which is I guess the heart of the problem!
    Maybe a new ISSA could be called BBTE (Bring Back The Entertainers)?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    OK. I'll have another go at this. I didn't have much time last night, and my original thought was of 'doing a Bradford'.
    In a way, you have answered your own question with the issues you list, although much depends on where the club have drawn the lines, or 'targets' if you like.
    The club will have such 'targets'. I expect many more than they will make public.
    We've already talked about the top 4 finish. That one didn't fail, so KC can breath again, but we don't know what would have happened if we had finished outside the 4, or even missed the top 8.

    Crowd numbers will almost certainly be a target, and obviously, that will link into income. Perhaps not a financial calamity, but something that EM and the board will be worrying about if it continues to fall. I don't know the figures, or what other factors the club will consider when measuring them, but they will be looking at this. Ditto for sales of season tickets, shirts etc.
    All of these could be seen to 'fail' if targets are not met, and someone will be answerable.

    On field creativity is a tougher on to measure, particularly if the club are still getting results, which is I guess the heart of the problem!
    Maybe a new ISSA could be called BBTE (Bring Back The Entertainers)?
    I see the point you're making and I don't disagree in principle, but I do disagree with the club if their 'targets' are the ones you have outlined.

    1. If there is a 'target' for crowd numbers, and if the club are meeting that 'target' right now then they have no ambition. We should be pulling in 13-14k at LP with all the advantages that the new place has in terms of potential amenities, seating, facilities, location etc. We did in Year 1, then people who came back to the club drifted away. That is a failure IMO.
    2. If there is a 'target' for on field performance, and if the club are meeting that 'target' right now then they have no ambition. The target should be 1st place and making at least one Final every year. We will invariably not meet that target, but the club could say 'we fell short of our ultimate target' and we'd accept that the target was high and sometimes we couldn't achieve it. By setting a 'target' of 4th place, the club has opted for a 'low bar' target, and then crows about meeting it. That again is a failure IMO.

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    All businesses (for that is what Saints are) have targets. It's a must.
    I guess their 'fans through turnstiles' target will be set at what makes them financially stable (along with targets for in ground sales and shop sales). Of course any forward thinking business will want to better those targets and I suspect Sainst are no different. However their targets are linked to on field performance to a large (although not exclusively) degree.
    That on field performance has to be balanced though. If Saints spend too much money on players and then fail to get more bums on seats, shirts sale etc then they have to decide where the balance is.
    If they don't spend all the cap, finish in top four (with occasional GF or CC win) and get enough fans through the gates then that will be ok for a club. As much as we would like it to be a romantic story the truth is it needs to be a business first. If not you end up like Salford or dare I say Bradford.
    Also part of the decisions on targets will feature 'will changing coaches' will help them continue to hit thier targets if they are not doing so.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Im not sure if the ISSA was officially disbanded or just faded away possibly as we enjoyed some success and everyone thought life was rosy! Maybe Dave Howarth can enlighten us given that Donny is banned for the forum!

    I guess the question I am posing is would it be the right time to re-launch an ISSA type fans organisation, would they be recognised by the club and would they have any genuine influence?
    As long as the bell end that is Mark Donaldson is kept a million miles away. That's why I jibbed off ISSA, plain and simple, that bell end lording it up as King Fan Almighty. I can imagine the reaction of the current club management if he were to walk through the door at LP ready to tell the club what they are doing wrong.

    And also the bloke who's only reason for attending any ISSA meeting was to demand that ISSA petition the club to ditch the club badge and bring back the old town crest.


  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    As long as the bell end that is Mark Donaldson is kept a million miles away. That's why I jibbed off ISSA, plain and simple, that bell end lording it up as King Fan Almighty. I can imagine the reaction of the current club management if he were to walk through the door at LP ready to tell the club what they are doing wrong.

    And also the bloke who's only reason for attending any ISSA meeting was to demand that ISSA petition the club to ditch the club badge and bring back the old town crest.
    And herein lies the problem with many focus groups, ie the inclusion of people who seem unwilling to accept the raison d'etre of the gathering but instead will only pursue their own agendas.

    By way of example, I sit on a consultative group set up by Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, created to get feedback from the local populace to the Service's proposals to meet swingeing Government cutbacks and comprising a cross-section of the community in respect of age, gender and ethnicity. Unfortunately, there are 3 or 4 people who cannot confine themselves to the remit of the group preferring only to propose actions to revolt against the Government which, if taken, would both endanger Merseysiders and be undemocratic. Perversely, while they want to retain central funding for the F&RS, these same people are not willing to support an alternative of increased local authority funds being levied. Possibly a bit like people who moan about poorer performances from Saints but do nothing to support the club financially through ticket or merchandise purchases (I'm not implying that any or all of the complainants on here fall into that category by the way but I come across many in pubs who fit it perfectly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    As long as the bell end that is Mark Donaldson is kept a million miles away. That's why I jibbed off ISSA, plain and simple, that bell end lording it up as King Fan Almighty. I can imagine the reaction of the current club management if he were to walk through the door at LP ready to tell the club what they are doing wrong.

    And also the bloke who's only reason for attending any ISSA meeting was to demand that ISSA petition the club to ditch the club badge and bring back the old town crest.
    one senses you don't like this mark chappy

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    Does anyone honestly feel that the club are unaware of the issues?

    It's a small town and you only have to look at the social media chatter. They aren't idiots. They know.

    Unfortunately, there's a stubborn ignorance to address them, presumably because they feel the negativity is limited to a few people online and not worthy of public acknowledgement.

    They may be absolutely right (I don't think so as I've got dozens of mates all saying the same things offline, too, many of whom haven't renewed.) But in any case, it's disappointing as a long-term, passionate fan to be seen as so dispensable.

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    what I see is the age old "you cant please everyone all of the time" you either choose to go to games and accept that the club know what their doing or you remove yourself until the problems, you as an individual are not happy with until they are fixed. If we picked 10 guys off this page right now to form a issa their would be 10 more claiming that they are just as bad as saints.

    I don't post to much but I read loads of threads on here but the truth is, the only way to make the club listen is when they start asking why people are not attending. you cant attend, spend your money on shirts and tops ect ect and expect them to listen because in the clubs eyes, when the look at the books its all hunkey dory. They are listening, just that they are listening the end result "the figures"

    the chairman could read this entire thread and think my opening line, but if he looks at the balance sheets and they don't look good he will stop reading and start asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    Does anyone honestly feel that the club are unaware of the issues?

    It's a small town and you only have to look at the social media chatter. They aren't idiots. They know.

    Unfortunately, there's a stubborn ignorance to address them, presumably because they feel the negativity is limited to a few people online and not worthy of public acknowledgement.

    They may be absolutely right (I don't think so as I've got dozens of mates all saying the same things offline, too, many of whom haven't renewed.) But in any case, it's disappointing as a long-term, passionate fan to be seen as so dispensable.
    I'm not so sure, they've certainly took us for idiots in the past.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    As long as the bell end that is Mark Donaldson is kept a million miles away. That's why I jibbed off ISSA, plain and simple, that bell end lording it up as King Fan Almighty. I can imagine the reaction of the current club management if he were to walk through the door at LP ready to tell the club what they are doing wrong.

    And also the bloke who's only reason for attending any ISSA meeting was to demand that ISSA petition the club to ditch the club badge and bring back the old town crest.
    Im not bringing individual personalities into this and for what its worth I have always found Donny is a decent lad.

    I also like the town crest -

    I don't consider myself a negative person generally speaking. The majority of my issues and concerns are more to do with the way the actual game is run from top RFL level rather than our club.

    I also don't think any such forum is simply just to air grievances but also to contribute positive ideas. Not only that its an ideal channel for the club to disseminate GOOD news and get fans on board with new initiatives. I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting its just an opportunity for a whinging session.

    I just think its unfortunate that when there was a lot of negativity and discomkockeration ( spell check doesn't like that!) around they chose not to meet the challenges head on and decided burying heads in the sand was a better approach.

    The majority of fans presumably spend time on here because they care about the club and want it to be successful. I would find it difficult to find a single person who wanted KC to fail. Bar one or two exceptions we al want the same outcome.

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    They must be aware. A girl called about my renewal and I explained why I wouldn't be renewing. I said I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth and she replied don't worry, it's not the first time I've heard it.

    Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    They must be aware. A girl called about my renewal and I explained why I wouldn't be renewing. I said I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth and she replied don't worry, it's not the first time I've heard it.

    Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
    As Kentish Barry has said they will have targets, including targets for season ticket sales. They will be worried if they don't reach the sales targets. Social media chat is one thing but significant numbers failing to renew is quite another. I have renewed and I still hope that things will change. I think that, without exception, we all want Rugby League and Saints to flourish but I understand why people are disillusioned and reluctantly deciding to pick and choose games.

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    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Sorry if we've drifted slightly off topic!

    Back to the OP.
    Perhaps a question or two aimed at those of you involved in the original ISSA...

    What does it take to set something like this up?
    I guess there would be costs involved. I know the ISSA membership was quite cheap, but can't remember exactly how much. Any idea of today's possible costs and membership charges?
    What would be a reasonable number of members? (What's your target? )
    I appreciate that these will be guesstimates BTW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scousedave View Post
    one senses you don't like this mark chappy

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    Quote Originally Posted by scousedave View Post
    one senses you don't like this mark chappy


    I think he's a terrible sports presenter...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Im not bringing individual personalities into this and for what its worth I have always found Donny is a decent lad.

    I also like the town crest -
    I've never hidden my disdain or contempt for him and I'm not about to start now.

    So do I. The "real one" of course!


  21. #46
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    I suppose a lot of work ISSA did has now been taken over by the club itself. Once everything had settled down at the club, there was a lot of fans forums etc, which the club regularly have..

    I've no doubt the club monitor here, rlfans and Facebook though, they'll be fully aware of supporter's gripes

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I've no doubt the club monitor here, rlfans and Facebook though, they'll be fully aware of supporter's gripes
    So it's that they choose to ignore them, then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    So it's that they choose to ignore them, then?
    Perhaps those that gripe are in a minority or are deemed to be statistically insignificant (for example, when measured against season ticket/merchandise sales) and thus the club considers that no change in approach is necessary. My reaction on Saints Facebook page to the signing of Matty Smith clearly showed my ill feelings but any cross-check of my name would show that I renewed 7 season tickets so why would Saints feel the need to react immediately.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    You can get an idea of season ticket sales for the North and South stands on the Saints Superstore website. And to me, it looks similar to last year with no major drop off!
    I disagree. If you look at the central sections (Gold) in the North there are swathes of seats available. They are usually the most popular areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I disagree. If you look at the central sections (Gold) in the North there are swathes of seats available. They are usually the most popular areas.
    Just had a quick look. Right across the North stand there are a massive number of seats still available. Quite a few front row seats in the South Stand available too

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