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Thread: Totally disillusioned

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    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    Default Totally disillusioned

    I've said a number of times throughout the course of this season that in addition to being thoroughly disenchanted with the style of rugby that is now the norm at Saints, the disrespect shown to the fans by some of the comments from both Cunningham and even McManus (remember tub thumpers?) and the apparent lack of ambition from the club in a number of areas (recruitment, retention etc) I have been increasingly disillusioned at the whole overall management and running of the game.

    We have the incompetence of the senior management of the game, with Big Nige et al proving themselves wholly unable to develop and run the game as a national sport should be.

    We have the ludicrous fiasco of the disciplinary process which is completely unfit for purpose.

    We have a broadcaster whose coverage of the game is akin to a child's cartoon series on Ceebeebies and as biased as only a bunch of pie-eating non-entities can be.

    And then we have officials in charge of matches who are at best incompetent at worst, for want of a better word, bent.

    For some time now, I have thought that the game is being "managed" to achieve certain outcomes.......in other words it is corrupt. Never have I felt this so strongly than over the past few weeks.

    Two weeks ago, we had some staggering decisions in the match between Wakefield and Hull, followed the night after by some equally outrageous decisions in the Warrington Wigan game........the outcomes of which being that the League Leaders Shield went to the final game.....

    Tonight, I firmly believe that the outcome of the game was preordained to be a Warrington win. It was wholly corrupt. Some of those decisions were clearly, obviously, managed to achieve a certain result, Warrington to be in the GF. They were so blatantly incorrect as to be beyond question. That's not to say we would have won.........the ineptitude of the head coach was again apparent for all to see, together with some truly awful performances, including a very uncharacteristic shocker from Roby and the usual lazy input from Vea.......but there was no way we were going to be allowed to win that game, simple.

    It will be interesting to see how the game tomorrow is managed.........I can't bring myself to say officiated, as that is not the way things happen in the world of the Sky/RFL scheme of things.

    Unless the powers that be realise that tonight's game has all but laid bare the way in which the game is manipulated, and consequently wary of such another blatant televised travesty, I fully expect Hull to claim their place in next week's GF so that a new name is added to the only 4 winners so far.........

    The upshot if all this is that after over 50 years of watching this game of ours, I cannot see me going to a single game next year, or indeed beyond that, until fundamental changes are made to the way in which the game is run.

    I feel totally disillusioned tonight, and that a part of my life which has been so important to me and my family in so many ways has been damaged perhaps beyond repair
    Last edited by warringtonsaint; 30th September 2016 at 06:58.
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Great post and a sad and damning indictment of the game. No matter what anyone says to contradict this post it is clear that outcomes of games are being dictated by the broadcaster. The two sets of standards are obvious when you attend non Sky games which tend to be refereed (inconsistently and generally badly) and Sky games which are produced or managed in an attempt to contrive excitement.

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    I couldn't agree more with this. Last night was ridiculous from the "officials" and it seems strange to me that the Sky imbeciles seem to bang on and on about decisions only for the ref to suddenly overturn his original decision? I've no doubt that there is communication between them and the video referees. The game is being killed by sky stage managing a once great game. As for Cunningham, well....I leave that there.

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    Agree 100%

    I'll get my RL fix from the NRL solely next year. English RL can continue its descent into oblivion as far as I'm concerned

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    After seeing what's happened in football over the last few days, I wouldn't be shocked by anything any more. I'll always support, follow and attend Saints, but outside of that I'm completely finished with such an amateur joke of a sport


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    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    I've said a number of times throughout the course of this season that in addition to being thoroughly disenchanted with the style of rugby that is now the norm at Saints, the disrespect shown to the fans by some of the comments from both Cunningham and even McManus (remember tub thumpers?) and the apparent lack of ambition from the club in a number of areas (recruitment, retention etc) I have been increasingly disillusioned at the whole overall management and running of the game.

    We have the incompetence of the senior management of the game, with Big Nige et al proving themselves wholly unable to develop and run the game as a national sport should be.

    We have the ludicrous fiasco of the disciplinary process which is completely unfit for purpose.

    We have a broadcaster whose coverage of the game is akin to a child's cartoon series on Ceebeebies and as biased as only a bunch of pie-eating non-entities can be.

    And then we have officials in charge of matches who are at best incompetent at worst, for want of a better word, bent.

    For some time now, I have thought that the game is being "managed" to achieve certain outcomes.......in other words it is corrupt. Never have I felt this so strongly than over the past few weeks.

    Two weeks ago, we had some staggering decisions in the match between Wakefield and Hull, followed the night after by some equally outrageous decisions in the Warrington Wigan game........the outcomes of which being that the League Leaders Shield went to the final game.....

    Tonight, I firmly believe that the outcome of the game was preordained to be a Warrington win. It was wholly corrupt. Some of those decisions were clearly, obviously, managed to achieve a certain result, Warrington to be in the GF. They were so blatantly incorrect as to be beyond question. That's not to say we would have won.........the ineptitude of the head coach was again apparent for all to see, together with some truly awful performances, including a very uncharacteristic shocker from Roby and the usual lazy input from Vea.......but there was no way we were going to be allowed to win that game, simple.

    It will be interesting to see how the game tomorrow is managed.........I can't bring myself to say officiated, as that is not the way things happen in the world of the Sky/RFL scheme of things.

    Unless the powers that be realise that tonight's game has all but laid bare the way in which the game is manipulated, and consequently wary of such another blatant televised travesty, I fully expect Hull to claim their place in next week's GF so that a new name is added to the only 4 winners so far.........

    The upshot if all this is that after over 50 years of watching this game of ours, I cannot see me going to a single game next year, or indeed beyond that, until fundamental changes are made to the way in which the game is run.

    I feel totally disillusioned tonight, and that a part of my life which has been so important to me and my family in so many ways has been damaged perhaps beyond repair
    100% spot on. If it's any consolation mate, you are not alone. I can stomach losing to a better team, but last night was nothing to do with performance..............except the performance of Thaler and Cobb. Even SKY muppets were shocked!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    After seeing what's happened in football over the last few days, I wouldn't be shocked by anything any more. I'll always support, follow and attend Saints, but outside of that I'm completely finished with such an amateur joke of a sport


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    This is how I feel. I toyed with the idea of attending some Four Nations games but not a chance now. Not lining the pockets of those incompetent halfwits. We should all boycott the whole tournament.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    This is how I feel. I toyed with the idea of attending some Four Nations games but not a chance now. Not lining the pockets of those incompetent halfwits. We should all boycott the whole tournament.

    And what good would that do?
    One of the MAJOR failings of our game is the poor support (in all ways) of the International game, ignore it and just see the eventual consequences. less central funding, less media coverage, less participation at lower levels, an ever decreasing circle and eventual strangulation.

    On the Peyroux try last night I didn't understand the eventual decision, I presume he was given as held up over the line as he was made to go back 10 metres to play the ball. had we had theold benefit of the doubt rule it would have been given as a try. The Lineham one is less clear as Swift played at the ball and Lineham dropped on it with his body 50:50 call which should have gone to the video ref.

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    I normally keep my opinion up my sleeve on topics like this but blow it.

    Morning after and I'm still as frustrated as I was last night. I can take losing to the better team but we got absolutely nothing last night, I've seen fans of Wigan, Hull, Cas and even Warrington on Twitter backing up what we are all saying. All I want is a fair shot and clearly we didn't get that last night.

    I feel sorry for the players, I really do. The players go through pre season, the WC Series, the regular rounds, the Super 8's and it's directed towards two games (semi and the final). They put their bodies through a lot, no one on that field will have been fully fit and I know that some of them have been really struggling with injuries last few weeks. To then be on the wrong end of the calls given last night is a very difficult to take and it really does make the entire thing really pointless.

    Last night was one thing but there's a wider context. Watch every game. Players are off side every tackle and there's hardly ever a penalty. Forward passes are a regular occurrence and aren't given. The inconsistency at the play the ball is an absolute joke, no one knows where the boundaries are. Players come in regularly third man and slide in with their knees because they know that they'll get away with it, it's not picked up on. We have two clowns on the side of the field who have bugger all to do but watch out for this and do absolutely nothing about it. It's gone too far though because it's in the players mentality now.

    The disciplinary process is so pathetic it's untrue. The same tackle that gets banned for 3 games a week earlier will get 1 the week after. "Passed offences" aren't taken into account for one player but will be for another. The entire thing is pathetic and genuinely makes my blood boil.

    On top of that the game is crap. When I'm watching a game on Tele l might put it on but I'll be doing other things in the process, very rarely will I sit back and watch the entire match. The core skills are so poor, say what you want about Rugby Union but half backs throw more accurate passes out on a regular basis using superior technique.

    I know we made mistakes last night, absolutely. We didn't help ourselves at times but it would have been nice to have been given a fair crack as well.

    All this makes me wonder why I bother and why I turn up home and away week in week out. The only reason why I follow the sport these days is because I bloody love this club. St Helens Rugby League is in my heart and has been since the day I first saw those floodlights at Knowsley Road. A few have left and a few more have got involved but I still go with the same core group of mates as I have done for years. I'm sure many are the same.

    I don't care who wins tonight, or next week. I won't be watching either game to be honest. It's just sad to see a game I once loved being driven into the ground that bit more every season.


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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    And what good would that do?
    One of the MAJOR failings of our game is the poor support (in all ways) of the International game, ignore it and just see the eventual consequences. less central funding, less media coverage, less participation at lower levels, an ever decreasing circle and eventual strangulation.
    Perhaps it would send a message to the RFL that fans of ALL clubs, not just ours, are completely disillusioned and fed up with the shoddy,amateurish way our sport is ran. Last night was a disgrace but it goes beyond that. The standard of refereeing is poor in general and the inconsistencies with the disciplinary panel are a joke.

    Personally I'd rather get our own competition in order before worrying about attendances at a Four Nations event. There's no point trying to build the international game if our domestic competition is in a state of shambles.

    Something has to change and the RFL need to wake up and realise they are supposed to be a professional organisation and start acting like one. At the minute they are a complete joke, a laughing stock. I felt aggrieved as a Saints fan last night but I felt embarrassed as a rugby fan. The RFL takes the fans for granted and it's about time they received a loud and clear message that the paying customer is simply not happy and won't keep shelling out for a sub-standard service.
    Last edited by The Yellow Giraffe; 30th September 2016 at 11:28.
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    I agree with the post had a horrid drive home thinking about the match . I know we didnt play as well as we could but believe given a fair rub of the green by the officials it would have been a 50 50 contest 2 of wankeys tries were questionable and peyrouxs last effort looked good to me they cant even get things right with technology i feel it was staged to get wankey to the gf and now either the pies or wankey could be champs thats a nasty thought .

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    I feel the same about watching Saints at the moment

    I wonder why I'm there every week

    I missed my first game of the season at Widnes, because I was away, but didn't miss it at all

    There are two issues.

    Firstly RFL, they are incompetent but realise that spreading round the honours is the way to increase crowds. We were done over last night but we contributed to this overselves.
    There is no incentive for them to change, the only people that can change them are the 12 or so owners of the SL clubs who could vote them out (or go their separate ways) Koukash tried to instigate this but they wouldn't go with him.
    At the moment Nige is earning a huge salary (£250K??) he's got lots of cronies to blame, just added Kev to that list, the RFL is making a profit, and the SL clubs are by and large managing with the salary cap preventing them going bust.
    Below them the game is dying. Clubs just can't survive on £75K per annum support from the RFL.
    That is more worrying than the referee saga. Ice Hockey in the UK died because clubs dropped out until there were only a handful left, and you can't keep playing each other

    Secondly, we have a decent squad but the standard of our coaching efforts are appalling
    Its not just this last two seasons, but going back to the start of SL. DA & IM won trophies but with brilliant squads. Now we have a less gifted team but that doesn't stop us playing Rugby & entertaining the crowd.
    Last night I thought at half time that we had Warrington. Without their starting props on the field, all we had to do was use some width and pass the ball around, get Percy & Jonny into some gaps and the game was won by 20 points. But no, we were bunched, playing one up Rugby, no attempts to offload, no attempts to pass, until it was all too late. I'm sorry I loved KC as a player. I think he's a decent enough bloke doing his best, but he's just wrong for the job. Now you need to develop young players and get them into the side. We looked clueless & stale last night. Fleming & Ashworth have looked good this year and they would have started for me. McDonnell looked good on the wing against Wakefield yet he stuck with mini prop Jack. Warrington look particularly vulnerable outside their wingers.

    In recent weeks the people around me in the North stand have been voting with their feet. Too often, people who have paid for games just don't seem to be turning up. This is a very bad sign. They will be assessing if its worthwhile renewing next year

    Based on 2016 the answer is No.

    Based on my friend group the answer is No too, as they have been dropping off this year. I'm almost the last man standing. I miss the people who I used to go with and they miss the Saints of old. Those great magic nights at KR with Long Scully Newlove Lyon...etc etc.

    I think we can recover but like many others, will I be there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Perhaps it would send a message to the RFL that fans of ALL clubs, not just ours, are completely disillusioned and fed up with the shoddy,amateurish way our sport is ran. Last night was a disgrace but it goes beyond that. The standard of refereeing is poor in general and the inconsistencies with the disciplinary panel are a joke.

    Personally I'd rather get our own competition in order before worrying about attendances at a Four Nations event. There's no point trying to build the international game if our domestic competition is in a state of shambles.

    Something has to change and the RFL need to wake up and realise they are supposed to be a professional organisation and start acting like one. At the minute they are a complete joke, a laughing stock. I felt aggrieved as a Saints fan last night but [BI felt embarrassed as a rugby fan.[/B] The RFL takes the fans for granted and it's about time they received a loud and clear message that the paying customer is simply not happy and won't keep shelling out for a sub-standard service.
    Correct. Sad as a Saints fan, but this is more about RL itself. We keep being told about growing the game and time after time the inner workings of the RL cocks up. Bad Refs, bad video decisions, shocking discipline decisions without and consistency etc.
    The truth is nothing will change. The idea of not going to the four nations is noble, but unless we can convince a large majority of fans to say not go to just one game it will fall on death ears. In truth I have two tickets for the final. Will I go? Almost certainly. If there was a massive campaign not to I would not, but it won't happen.
    For us as fans to get change we need a group of clever people using sensible tactics to gather a momentum that fans can get behind. Where they are I'm not sure.
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    Default Totally agree

    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    I've said a number of times throughout the course of this season that in addition to being thoroughly disenchanted with the style of rugby that is now the norm at Saints, the disrespect shown to the fans by some of the comments from both Cunningham and even McManus (remember tub thumpers?) and the apparent lack of ambition from the club in a number of areas (recruitment, retention etc) I have been increasingly disillusioned at the whole overall management and running of the game.

    We have the incompetence of the senior management of the game, with Big Nige et al proving themselves wholly unable to develop and run the game as a national sport should be.

    We have the ludicrous fiasco of the disciplinary process which is completely unfit for purpose.

    We have a broadcaster whose coverage of the game is akin to a child's cartoon series on Ceebeebies and as biased as only a bunch of pie-eating non-entities can be.

    And then we have officials in charge of matches who are at best incompetent at worst, for want of a better word, bent.

    For some time now, I have thought that the game is being "managed" to achieve certain outcomes.......in other words it is corrupt. Never have I felt this so strongly than over the past few weeks.

    Two weeks ago, we had some staggering decisions in the match between Wakefield and Hull, followed the night after by some equally outrageous decisions in the Warrington Wigan game........the outcomes of which being that the League Leaders Shield went to the final game.....

    Tonight, I firmly believe that the outcome of the game was preordained to be a Warrington win. It was wholly corrupt. Some of those decisions were clearly, obviously, managed to achieve a certain result, Warrington to be in the GF. They were so blatantly incorrect as to be beyond question. That's not to say we would have won.........the ineptitude of the head coach was again apparent for all to see, together with some truly awful performances, including a very uncharacteristic shocker from Roby and the usual lazy input from Vea.......but there was no way we were going to be allowed to win that game, simple.

    It will be interesting to see how the game tomorrow is managed.........I can't bring myself to say officiated, as that is not the way things happen in the world of the Sky/RFL scheme of things.

    Unless the powers that be realise that tonight's game has all but laid bare the way in which the game is manipulated, and consequently wary of such another blatant televised travesty, I fully expect Hull to claim their place in next week's GF so that a new name is added to the only 4 winners so far.........

    The upshot if all this is that after over 50 years of watching this game of ours, I cannot see me going to a single game next year, or indeed beyond that, until fundamental changes are made to the way in which the game is run.

    I feel totally disillusioned tonight, and that a part of my life which has been so important to me and my family in so many ways has been damaged perhaps beyond repair

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    Just to concur with almost every one of the above posts.

    I've almost no interest in SL at all. As a result of my shifts and the amount of times I'm not working when Saints are actually the televised game, I've seen them 3 times this season; in total I think I've watched 6 SL games all year- the quality of play was shockingly poor. The Sky presentation drives me to distraction. The officiating is laughable (or would be if it wasn't verging on the criminal), and don't get me started on Red Hall and the Disciplinary procedure.
    Cancelled my Sky 2 weeks ago (not at football fan so hardly seems worth it.)
    Also, on many occasions, I can't even get a commentary of the Saints game when I'm at work, either on the FM or on my smartphone.

    I find it increasingly difficult to follow SL- having said that, the general consensus tells me it's mostly sh1te anyway, so no great loss.

    Compare to the NRL- 10 quid a month on Premier and I've easily watched 15 games, the quality of which was almost universally excellent. I can also get a commentary of every game on my smartphone when I'm at work.

    Like others, I will get my fix from the Aussie game going forward. SL is at an all time nadir. How to fix it and bring back the long standing fans of the game (like myself) who've finally said "enough is enough"?

    I have no idea.

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    Last night cemented for me why the play offs and Grand Final to decide the champions are bang wrong, our inept officials are like the puppet masters with 8/9 months of effort players, coaches and fans in their hands in one 80 mins it's too much power/influence. OK you can still lose a league title on a bad decision in one game but at least that is just in that 80 min match.
    Please don't think I'm bleating after last night as we don't deserve to be champions this year by a long stretch but I'm fed up and can't bothered watching tonight's match pig sick of the RFL at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    I've said a number of times throughout the course of this season that in addition to being thoroughly disenchanted with the style of rugby that is now the norm at Saints, the disrespect shown to the fans by some of the comments from both Cunningham and even McManus (remember tub thumpers?) and the apparent lack of ambition from the club in a number of areas (recruitment, retention etc) I have been increasingly disillusioned at the whole overall management and running of the game.

    We have the incompetence of the senior management of the game, with Big Nige et al proving themselves wholly unable to develop and run the game as a national sport should be.

    We have the ludicrous fiasco of the disciplinary process which is completely unfit for purpose.

    We have a broadcaster whose coverage of the game is akin to a child's cartoon series on Ceebeebies and as biased as only a bunch of pie-eating non-entities can be.

    And then we have officials in charge of matches who are at best incompetent at worst, for want of a better word, bent.

    For some time now, I have thought that the game is being "managed" to achieve certain outcomes.......in other words it is corrupt. Never have I felt this so strongly than over the past few weeks.

    Two weeks ago, we had some staggering decisions in the match between Wakefield and Hull, followed the night after by some equally outrageous decisions in the Warrington Wigan game........the outcomes of which being that the League Leaders Shield went to the final game.....

    Tonight, I firmly believe that the outcome of the game was preordained to be a Warrington win. It was wholly corrupt. Some of those decisions were clearly, obviously, managed to achieve a certain result, Warrington to be in the GF. They were so blatantly incorrect as to be beyond question. That's not to say we would have won.........the ineptitude of the head coach was again apparent for all to see, together with some truly awful performances, including a very uncharacteristic shocker from Roby and the usual lazy input from Vea.......but there was no way we were going to be allowed to win that game, simple.

    It will be interesting to see how the game tomorrow is managed.........I can't bring myself to say officiated, as that is not the way things happen in the world of the Sky/RFL scheme of things.

    Unless the powers that be realise that tonight's game has all but laid bare the way in which the game is manipulated, and consequently wary of such another blatant televised travesty, I fully expect Hull to claim their place in next week's GF so that a new name is added to the only 4 winners so far.........

    The upshot if all this is that after over 50 years of watching this game of ours, I cannot see me going to a single game next year, or indeed beyond that, until fundamental changes are made to the way in which the game is run.

    I feel totally disillusioned tonight, and that a part of my life which has been so important to me and my family in so many ways has been damaged perhaps beyond repair
    I don't think those thoughts are yours alone. Good post.

  18. #18
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    I have taken these corruption and cheating accusations with a pinch of salt knowing how fickle rugby league fans can be, but taking into consideration the going ons in football recently and last nights display it was a clear demonstration that something is a miss.

    Firstly, on the whole of it Warrington were the better team, some terrible decision making - kicking on 3rd 5m out -didn't help us. However, I try not to criticize the referee's, they do a damn hard job and takes some serious balls to stand in the middle of field surrounded by 10's of thousand's of people wanting your head on a weekly basis.

    Aside from the obvious incidents, there was a passage of play that stood out to me, early in the second half iirc, there was a shocking play the ball, worse than what is considered the norm now, there was a loose pass along the floor, hint of forward and dubious handling, but play continued to the fifth and without hesitation Saints were offside.

    Small moments like that can change games, along with the major incidents this sort of thing gets overlooked.

    I have followed Saints all my 25 years, been to new and old wembley, cardiff, twickenham, murrayfield, perpignan mostly all good memories, I have been very fortunate to watch some brilliant players wear the RedVee and watch them succeed.

    My worry for the game is the RFL and Sky are so concerned with getting a new name on the Super League trophy its going to kill the game, I for one wont be attending any games next year out of choice, it pains me when theres people like Eamon McManus who have dedicated their lives, money, reputation to a sport I once loved that I can only see going one way.

  19. #19
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    Bert & Ernie in town tomorrow
    Wonder how many give them a hard time?
    http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/851786858?-4338:2393:0

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