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Thread: Matty Smith set to return to St Helens

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintelsie View Post
    This signing won't put extra bums on seats but genuinely think smith/fages combination could work. He's a home town boy to boot which can never be a bad thing. As fans I really hope in 2017 we give him support and cheer him on to show his skills, not (as we've witnessed this year) excitedly wait for him to make one mistake so we can boo and then go home happy we've stripped some poor guy of all his confidence.
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    When he's in the Redvee I will support him. Simple as that.

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    I've had my say elsewhere with regards to signing him so won't repeat myself.

    But this whole badge kissing thing, did he actually kiss the badge? I recall him grabbing his shirt and beating his chest but did he kiss the badge? Because there's an awful lot of people giving opinions on him based on something he didn't actually do I don't think.
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    It is not a Scrum Half we need. We have got one of those - Fages - and adequate cover in Wilkin and possibly a younger player in Richardson. It is a Stand Off we need. Someone to take on the line straighten the play and feed the centres good ball. Pretty much what Turner is doing now. If we are signing Smith it will lead to imbalance in the team as he and Fages are both cross field runners - which is what Scrum Halfs do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintelsie View Post
    This signing won't put extra bums on seats but genuinely think smith/fages combination could work. He's a home town boy to boot which can never be a bad thing. As fans I really hope in 2017 we give him support and cheer him on to show his skills, not (as we've witnessed this year) excitedly wait for him to make one mistake so we can boo and then go home happy we've stripped some poor guy of all his confidence.
    Usual suspects out in force defending this signing. We could sign Ben Flower on a 5 year contract and you wouldn't moan

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    What we've done is very clever - loaned him out to inferior, smaller clubs until he's learned his trade and then re-sign him when he's at his peak and ready to take us to the Promised Land!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    I haven't read this thread yet, so do forgive me if I repeat many of the points already made, which I suspect I will.

    After coming home from a work on a pretty dreary Wednesday, this wasn't the news I wanted to come home to. In fact, it's terrible news.

    I suppose I should post with the caveat of "if this is true". But I have little reason to doubt it. A number of sources have ran this story, and our own head coach recently declared his love for him.

    The news in effect confirms the departure of Walsh, which in my opinion is the far bigger news. We a losing an organiser and a man who supplies tries and makes big contributions on a regular basis. If he wants to go home, it's hard to blame the club for this loss. He's stayed longer than we anticipated anyway. Nevertheless, it's still bad news.

    What the club can and should be blamed for is signing a player who is totally inadequate.

    When looking for a replacement scrum half, I would imagine that you would first have to look for a player who has the core skills of a scrum half. They include, a wide ranging and accurate kicking game, good distribution, an ability to play to a structure and off the cuff when required and goalkicking ability.

    Let's start with the kicking game. Matty Smith's kicking game consists of aimless high balls which often go 20 metres too far, which only incompetent full backs would drop, grubber kicks that roll dead, and finally, his speciality, drilled kicks in to touch to "grind" a game out. He can be effective in some situations, for example, the more defensive kick options, but in terms of putting pressure on a full back or winger, he can't do it. No full back or winger in Super League (except for maybe Sam Tomkins) would worry about being under a Matty Smith high kick, in the same way they would as being under a Danny Brough high kick.

    But his no-frills, no-risk, "grind" mentality probably is something that matches with KC's philosophy.

    His passing is woeful and is getting worse. A number of times in recent weeks he has ruined attacking Wigan moves by throwing the ball at players feet or behind them, leading to knock ons. And this has contributed to them losing big matches.

    He has no running game at all. On the rare occasion he will run at a gap, he's that slow the hole has already been filled and he grinds the attack to a halt. He also seems to be very much into the whole Wigan ideology of one attacking, side to side move, that has long had its day. It may work against the likes of Wakefield and Hull KR, but will do nothing against a half-decent side.

    We already have better goalkickers, or at the very least goalkickers of equal ability.

    Therefore, I cannot fathom why the club want to sign him. I do question whether we would even be looking at him if he wasn't a "St Helens lad". We released him years ago because he wasn't good enough and I cannot see what has changed.

    Players very very rarely move directly from St Helens to Wigan. It should be a massive story if they do. But the fact that Wigan are letting him go without even putting up a fight, should be sounding alarm bells at the club.

    You can argue that he's an international player, so he must be good. But I don't buy it. Chris Melling and David Hodgson played for Great Britain. Richard Horne and Paul Johnson have been wingers in test matches against Australia. The fact that Smith is considered for England is a reflection on the games failure to produce creative players and our long term falsely held belief (which exists in the junior game and transfers to senior level) that the fastest lad should go at 7, as he's quick enough to get around the big fellas. This means that the skills of a half back aren't really taught.

    When signing a player, you should look at who he is replacing. If he's not as good as him, you should ask why you are signing him. You can argue that others aren't available, but Gale was off-contract a few months ago, and Brierley was a free agent. Instead, we seem to have given a 4 year deal to someone past his already limited peak.

    We are in a salary capped sport and you have to invest shrewdly. I don't know the salary we have offered to Smith, but I doubt it's value for money. I don't mind spending big wages on a scrum half. They are the heartbeat of the team, you need to spend big on them, but you need to ensure they are a top drawer player. We seem not to have learned from our mistakes after the difficulties we had in replacing Long.

    Surely this isn't the signing we will make now, and then say, "roll up and buy your season tickets", because many will say no thanks.

    As discussed at length, I'm also uncomfortable with a St Helens lad kissing the Wigan badge, and signing for us the following season. I'm seething that we would consider signing, a player, who is from St Helens, that finds it acceptable to laugh in the faces of our young players, and ruffle their hair when they make a mistake. With his ability, I don't think in he's in a position to laugh at anybody.

    But I could overlook all of this, if he had any talent whatsoever. And in my opinion, he does not. And I cannot see what he will add to the team.

    I hope he proves me wrong, and to an extent, this scenario isn't his fault. The blame lies at the door of the club. Maybe this time next year, I will say that Matty Smith came back and made me look like a total idiot. You never know, here's hoping that is the case.

    But for now, I'm feeling pretty despondent that our attitude towards the key position on the field is that we can get a pound-shop replacement and that no one will mind, and that will win us trophies. If we were to sign a top scrum half, I honestly wouldn't mind if we didn't sign anyone else. Now we have pressurised ourselves to strengthen in other areas.

    I hope that we do bring in some other quality recruits now, because signing players such as Matty Smith to be the heartbeat of your team isn't going to win us any trophies.
    Absolutely spot on.
    Looking at the stats for both Smith and Walsh for this season

    Goal Succes Rate - Walsh 81%, Smith 71%
    Attacking Kicks - Walsh 95, Smith 114
    Clean Breaks - Walsh 6, Smith 1
    Offloads - Walsh 9, Smith 4
    Tackle Busts - Walsh 13, Smith 9
    40/20s - Walsh 2, Smith 1
    Try Assists - Walsh 21, Smith 8
    Ave M per Carry - Walsh 4.02, Smith 4.15
    Runs from Dummy Half - Walsh 7, Smith 0

    I think that KC and the majority of us seem to have a different perspective of what the promised land looks like and how we are going to get there.
    Also, my upside down frown has now turned into a grimace

  8. #83
    WARNING! PIE EATER! 29wes28's Avatar
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    You will get a better Matty Smith than we have at present. Under the guidance of Longy/Harris/Deacon he was a lot better than he is showing now. We have lost all 3 of the mentioned as assistants and ended up with Winder who no one knows much about and will do everything to Wanes tune. The game plan thing also plays Smith down. Matty Smith will never be a world beater but under the right guidance he is a good player it is also no coincidence that he has won a LLS CC and GF I think he won a lance Todd too. SS is right we do have a slow distribution at present but you have Roby we have Powell like I said he'll never be a world beater and I am glad he is leaving us but I do believe you will get a better Matty Smith than we currently have.


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    I think we've signed too many 'give him a chance ' type of player. When was the last time we signed a player we were all mostly happy with? I was hoping for a player to excite us all again,to improve us. But saying all that,it might not be true. Lets hope its just a clown of a hack reading the rumour threads on RedVee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    But this whole badge kissing thing, did he actually kiss the badge? I recall him grabbing his shirt and beating his chest but did he kiss the badge? Because there's an awful lot of people giving opinions on him based on something he didn't actually do I don't think.
    He definitely did it. I remember watching it and thinking he was a so and so. Wasn't worthy of comment at the time as I didn't think the day would come when he'd be back here.

    He's done it a few times. I recall seeing him do it at Headingley as well.

    If you're a St Helens lad that loves Wigan that much, enjoy yourself. Just don't expect much if you come back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    He definitely did it. I remember watching it and thinking he was a so and so. Wasn't worthy of comment at the time as I didn't think the day would come when he'd be back here.

    He's done it a few times. I recall seeing him do it at Headingley as well.

    If you're a St Helens lad that loves Wigan that much, enjoy yourself. Just don't expect much if you come back.
    Can you blame him though after the way he was treated at the time ? Willing to play for us but we put our eggs in the eastmond basket, loaned out but then good enough to be brought back for the playoffs and grand final, then let go. Now we need to see who else we sign .

  12. #87
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    Just throwing it out there but did Sky also report we had signed Luluai and Soward or did they say we were looking to sign them?

    If the former it might not be done yet?????
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    Im a bit surprised we've given him a four year deal but other than that im not too bothered about him coming back. He's a steady 7. I think he and Fages could form a decent partnership together. Ive defended him on her in the past. He's no world beater but he's not as bad as made out by many on here IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Can you blame him though after the way he was treated at the time ? Willing to play for us but we put our eggs in the eastmond basket, loaned out but then good enough to be brought back for the playoffs and grand final, then let go. Now we need to see who else we sign .
    When we brought him back he was ok in the first game and completely anonymous in the second hence us deciding he wasn't good enough.

    Our recruitment is nothing short of a laughing stock and by giving him a 4 year deal we prove once again how weak we are at negotiation. Agents must love ringing Saints

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Can you blame him though after the way he was treated at the time ? Willing to play for us but we put our eggs in the eastmond basket, loaned out but then good enough to be brought back for the playoffs and grand final, then let go. Now we need to see who else we sign .
    Don't recall there being much opposition to the club rating Eastmond over Smith at the time.

  16. #91
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    I believe Saints have signed Smith so that the upcoming announcements of contract extensions for Wilkin and LMS will sneak under the Redvee radar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunderhead View Post
    Don't recall there being much opposition to the club rating Eastmond over Smith at the time.
    No there wasn't but that's not the point im making is it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Just throwing it out there but did Sky also report we had signed Luluai and Soward or did they say we were looking to sign them?

    If the former it might not be done yet?????
    Mate, if Brian (RG), implies it's happening, then it's happening. The man is dynamite when it comes to Wigan related information.

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    We are going to be playing young players in the halves who will need experience with them Smith is just that and he didn't want to leave .

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Mate, if Brian (RG), implies it's happening, then it's happening. The man is dynamite when it comes to Wigan related information.
    Cheers chap, that clears that up.

    Edit...based on rumours of course
    Soward wanted to much
    Brown the fee was to big

    Have we gone for a cheaper option? If yes, and thats to allow big spending in other areas then can at least understand that.

    If not for that reason, if we have gone for a cheaper option, why?
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  21. #96
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    The signing of Smith adds to the need for another centre for me. Every team needs game changers in their backline and if we have a slow and steady 7 then we need magic from elsewhere.

    No offence to Fleming or Peyroux but seeing one of them in the starting 1-7 along with Smith would be a bit underwhelming to say the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post

    Can you blame him though after the way he was treated at the time ?
    Yes

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    Where would we have been this last few years without Mike Rush and his recruitment policy?

    Winning trophies probably!
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    Sorry but it's another backward step. We are definitely going the wrong way as a club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Where would we have been this last few years without Mike Rush and his recruitment policy?

    Winning trophies probably!
    Having read kc's nonsensical rave about Smith, I wonder how much we can blame Mike Rush for this one.

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