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Thread: The Football Thread - 2016/17

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Serie A is a poor league in my opinion with only 4/5 decent teams.Juve only had a tough match once a month.
    Juve didn't go top of the league until Feb last season. For the first 25 weeks they were off the pace, and were down in 12th in October. They had to go on an amazing 25 game unbeaten run to claw it back and finally win it. Serie A is not on the level of the Premier League, but I don't really spend too much time bigging up the PL when Leicester walked it last season. No way would a team with their technical deficiencies win the league in Italy.

    I completely agree that there are only 4-5 decent teams in Italy, but is that far off the amount of decent teams in England last season? Southampton finished 6th, are they anything other than an above average team? I think we look at leagues overseas and judge them differently. If United, Liverpool and Chelsea are not in the Top 4 we still regard them as big clubs and decent teams, but when equally talented teams finish 6th, 8th, 10th or wherever in other countries we don't use the same rules. We simply look the league table and think 'those top 3 must be good, everyone else looks crap' whilst in England we big up sides that aren't that good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Juve didn't go top of the league until Feb last season. For the first 25 weeks they were off the pace, and were down in 12th in October. They had to go on an amazing 25 game unbeaten run to claw it back and finally win it. Serie A is not on the level of the Premier League, but I don't really spend too much time bigging up the PL when Leicester walked it last season. No way would a team with their technical deficiencies win the league in Italy.

    I completely agree that there are only 4-5 decent teams in Italy, but is that far off the amount of decent teams in England last season? Southampton finished 6th, are they anything other than an above average team? I think we look at leagues overseas and judge them differently. If United, Liverpool and Chelsea are not in the Top 4 we still regard them as big clubs and decent teams, but when equally talented teams finish 6th, 8th, 10th or wherever in other countries we don't use the same rules. We simply look the league table and think 'those top 3 must be good, everyone else looks crap' whilst in England we big up sides that aren't that good.
    Just an opinion but none of the really top players are going to Italy anymore.
    Learned comment from The Don

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Just an opinion but none of the really top players are going to Italy anymore.
    Tottenham just beat Inter Milan 6-1 the other day. Not sure Italian football is upto much these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Tottenham just beat Inter Milan 6-1 the other day. Not sure Italian football is upto much these days.

    Liverpool beat Barcelona 4-0.

    Inter aren't great at the moment, they were nowhere last season, they've just replaced Mancini with De Boer, etc. But it goes back to what I said yesterday about us judging a league based on the clubs we've heard of.

    Juve, Napoli, Roma are good teams. A couple below them are decent. Inter and Milan at present are nowhere. It shoes that Serie A is half decent that these big clubs cannot struggle but still coast into European spots.

    Anyway, I'm not challenging the argument that Serie A at present is a step down from the PL, it obviously is, and its a fairly big step as well. I was just sticking up for Italian football, which I watch and have watched for 25 years and have a real affinity with. It was called a pub league and I decided to challenge that. That was all.

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    Italian club football is desperately poor. Outside of the big names clubs, it's just a mess with terrible crowds, terrible teams and decaying stadiums. Who'd get out of bed to watch Crotone v Chievo?

    I'd expect any of our top six sides to beat Napoli and Roma comfortably over two legs.

    Juve gave the top clubs a twelve point start last season and stil romped it. in fact, their signing of Higuain just emphasises where we are at. In similar fashion to France and Germany, they can simply plunder the best players of any semblance of opposition, and with a cool £93 million knocking about now, I suspect Roma and Napoli will be pulling up the drawbridges as Juve's domination of Serie A gathers pace and they just hope to get a bit lucky in the Champions League.

    Given the spectacular demise of AC and Inter, the only hope for Serie A is that the Chinese consortiums deliver spectacular amounts of cash and gradually turn the tide. I'd be surprised if Juve hadn't won ten on the spin by then, which is incidently the amount that will probably be won on the bounce by Bayern and PSG before something has to happen.

    That said, Pogba is an excellent signing. I've watched him in the Champions League a few times and I'd expect him to make the difference.

    United seemed to have signed a team ready for this season whereas City seem to be signing a team for the next few seasons. Only time will tell whether we've got it right long term but for this season at least, I can't see past United. They've addressed everything that needs addressing. No luxuries. Just quality players to fill their holes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Italian club football is desperately poor. Outside of the big names clubs, it's just a mess with terrible crowds, terrible teams and decaying stadiums. Who'd get out of bed to watch Crotone v Chievo?

    I'd expect any of our top six sides to beat Napoli and Roma comfortably over two legs.

    Juve gave the top clubs a twelve point start last season and stil romped it. in fact, their signing of Higuain just emphasises where we are at. In similar fashion to France and Germany, they can simply plunder the best players of any semblance of opposition, and with a cool £93 million knocking about now, I suspect Roma and Napoli will be pulling up the drawbridges as Juve's domination of Serie A gathers pace and they just hope to get a bit lucky in the Champions League.

    Given the spectacular demise of AC and Inter, the only hope for Serie A is that the Chinese consortiums deliver spectacular amounts of cash and gradually turn the tide. I'd be surprised if Juve hadn't won ten on the spin by then, which is incidently the amount that will probably be won on the bounce by Bayern and PSG before something has to happen.

    That said, Pogba is an excellent signing. I've watched him in the Champions League a few times and I'd expect him to make the difference.

    United seemed to have signed a team ready for this season whereas City seem to be signing a team for the next few seasons. Only time will tell whether we've got it right long term but for this season at least, I can't see past United. They've addressed everything that needs addressing. No luxuries. Just quality players to fill their holes.
    So you're not confident of City's chances then this season?

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    Curious that DD is downplaying City's chances when they are overwhelmingly the experts pick on the bbc website

    Maybe he's hiding his optimism with some fake negativity?

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    City have got Toure, Kompany, Sagna, Zabaleta, Fernando, Nasri, Kolarov, Caballero, Silva, Clichy, Fernandinho, Hart, Otamendi, Nolito, Aguero and Navas all 29 years old or more this season. That's 16 out of the current 27 first team players. Some of these players are still in their prime and some of them might not be here come september 1st but with an ageing squad who aren't the far and away clear favourites this is a challenge Guardiola hasn't faced before. Another element to add in to a fascinating season.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Glad to come away from the Emirates with three points but I really can't stand Moreno he's a disaster waiting to happen each week, I reckon he's cost many a game over the last two years ,he is always out of position, heads or clears the ball back into danger and then flies into tackles recklessly. He needs replacing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    Glad to come away from the Emirates with three points but I really can't stand Moreno he's a disaster waiting to happen each week, I reckon he's cost many a game over the last two years ,he is always out of position, heads or clears the ball back into danger and then flies into tackles recklessly. He needs replacing.
    I would love to know who scouted him because I saw him three times for Sevilla and every time I text my mate saying he is the worst footballer I have ever seen. Next thing were spunking 15m on him.

    Only Emre Can who pushes him close. Another awful footballer with no brain

  11. #36
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    If we don't bin him off Baz we won't get top 4.If we sell Benteke we should spend a few bob on an italian defender despite what I said above they can't half defend.

    If we can carry on playing like that going forward we won't have a bad season. Absolutely amazed we bought him at all.......but some idiot bought Balotelli ! DD did warn everyone.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    Not just me who isn't having Can then? Great game yesterday and Liverpool looked great going forward but it does look as though we have done very little to address the defensive problems we had last year. I can't believe he didn't buy a left back. He sees this guy every day in training and I can't believe he sees something different to what we seen on match days.
    It is looking like James Milner is going to be our first choice left back. Bizarre

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    7 goals in the game but I don't think either team defended badly really. All 4 Liverpool goals were special goals in their own way, with two being individual acts of brilliance and the other two fantastic moves. Arsenal's first is down to Moreno going walkabout, their second was a deflection from a shot that Mignolet would have saved easily, and the third was a wonderful in-swinging free kick. Take Moreno out of the equation and Liverpool looked a lot more sound defensively IMO. Lovren and Klavan look solid at CB and they are one decent LB away from looking okay back there. Going forward they have real pace and purpose when it clicks, and they effectively blew Arsenal away in about 15 minutes yesterday. Get the LB situation sorted and Liverpool have alot of promise. That might not take them anywhere higher than 4th-5th because alot of other teams have promise as well of course.

    On to Moreno again, I wonder why Klopp let Smith go to Bournemouth and I'm really surprised he let Flanagan go to Burnley. Flanagan gets away with a lot because he's a Scouser, but as a short term option he has to be a better bet than Moreno right now. Klopp also left him out of the Europa League squad as well last season, which meant Moreno playing. You can argue Moreno's ineptitude swung that Final in a way you just couldn't see Flanagan allowing it to. Liverpool don't have a really good left back, but they definitely have an appalling one. To let an average one and a below average one leave in order to allow the appalling one to play seems very strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    7 goals in the game but I don't think either team defended badly really. All 4 Liverpool goals were special goals in their own way, with two being individual acts of brilliance and the other two fantastic moves. Arsenal's first is down to Moreno going walkabout, their second was a deflection from a shot that Mignolet would have saved easily, and the third was a wonderful in-swinging free kick. Take Moreno out of the equation and Liverpool looked a lot more sound defensively IMO. Lovren and Klavan look solid at CB and they are one decent LB away from looking okay back there. Going forward they have real pace and purpose when it clicks, and they effectively blew Arsenal away in about 15 minutes yesterday. Get the LB situation sorted and Liverpool have alot of promise. That might not take them anywhere higher than 4th-5th because alot of other teams have promise as well of course.

    On to Moreno again, I wonder why Klopp let Smith go to Bournemouth and I'm really surprised he let Flanagan go to Burnley. Flanagan gets away with a lot because he's a Scouser, but as a short term option he has to be a better bet than Moreno right now. Klopp also left him out of the Europa League squad as well last season, which meant Moreno playing. You can argue Moreno's ineptitude swung that Final in a way you just couldn't see Flanagan allowing it to. Liverpool don't have a really good left back, but they definitely have an appalling one. To let an average one and a below average one leave in order to allow the appalling one to play seems very strange.
    The rumours with Flanagan was midway through last season he turned up to training smelling of booze. Klopp never entertained him again

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Curious that DD is downplaying City's chances when they are overwhelmingly the experts pick on the bbc website

    Maybe he's hiding his optimism with some fake negativity?
    I'm a bit more positive after our last two games, although I still have major concerns how we will operate against teams that keep it tight and stop us playing.

    The main reason I'm a bit more positive is that Pep seems to have turned players who were beyond below average last season into footballers already. Players like Kolarov and Sterling are playing well. They are fighting, they are chasing and the John Stones signing, thus far, seems to have been a masterstroke.

    The negativity of last week was in no way fake. I can assure you of that, and anyone who saw the Sunderland game would have understood all my anxieities.

    The game at United will tell us a lot about both sides.
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    Yeah I think you're the team to beat this year

    However I do think we'll be a different side from the last three years and might make a push for top spot - although it's probably a bit early for that claim

    Bailly has shown enough in his few games for me to think he's going to be a very good player for us

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Yeah I think you're the team to beat this year

    However I do think we'll be a different side from the last three years and might make a push for top spot - although it's probably a bit early for that claim

    Bailly has shown enough in his few games for me to think he's going to be a very good player for us
    When people talk about City fans downplaying their chances, it is totally absurd for a United fan to downplay their team's chances down; talking about top two or three etc, with the vast amount of money they have spent in recent times.

    In reality, if a single City or United fan says thet are happy with anything other than a title success this season then they are a liar or completely mad! :-)

    Anything short of title success is rank failure - for either of us. That's what makes this year potentially rather stressful.

    I'd put you down as favourites purely down to an aging squad of key players, in our case, and I haven't been confident about us at all, but there's still no getting away from it. Second or worse is failure now, and that's the top and bottom of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    When people talk about City fans downplaying their chances, it is totally absurd for a United fan to downplay their team's chances down; talking about top two or three etc, with the vast amount of money they have spent in recent times.

    In reality, if a single City or United fan says thet are happy with anything other than a title success this season then they are a liar or completely mad! :-)

    Anything short of title success is rank failure - for either of us. That's what makes this year potentially rather stressful.

    I'd put you down as favourites purely down to an aging squad of key players, in our case, and I haven't been confident about us at all, but there's still no getting away from it. Second or worse is failure now, and that's the top and bottom of it.
    Agreed, you dont buy players of the calibre of Ibrahimovic and Pogba and aim for top 4.

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    Yep you're both right. I will be disappointed if we don't win the league but I'm not going to start claiming that we are big favourites. An injury to Ibrahimovic would leave us short up top and we would probably look no different than the last 2 seasons

    If he plays all season I think we will win it. If Aguero misses a number of games City can still win it IMO

    Chelsea I'm not sure about, they've scraped those two wins but I don't know if that is the sign of a good side or an average one

    Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester, Liverpool etc even now I think things have moved on and they won't be in the mix

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Agreed, you dont buy players of the calibre of Ibrahimovic and Pogba and aim for top 4.
    Season too early for Utd IMO. City big favourites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Season too early for Utd IMO. City big favourites.
    I think City are favs, but finishing fourth wont be a successful season for Mourinho IMO. In fact if they did finish fourth I would class it as a failed season after breaking the world transfer record.

    Following on from the euphoria of the Arsenal game came the predictable disastrous performance at Burnley. I said I didn't see us doing much better than last season with the squad we had and I think the best were looking at is 6th. Spurs away on Saturday and I really wouldnt be surprised at any result. We will cause problems but our defence is woeful.

    We have had 5 shots against us this season on target and conceded 5 goals and I couldn't blame Mignolet on any of them

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    I think City are favs, but finishing fourth wont be a successful season for Mourinho IMO. In fact if they did finish fourth I would class it as a failed season after breaking the world transfer record.

    Following on from the euphoria of the Arsenal game came the predictable disastrous performance at Burnley. I said I didn't see us doing much better than last season with the squad we had and I think the best were looking at is 6th. Spurs away on Saturday and I really wouldnt be surprised at any result. We will cause problems but our defence is woeful.

    We have had 5 shots against us this season on target and conceded 5 goals and I couldn't blame Mignolet on any of them
    Would agree about Utd. They spend vast sums every year and seem to escape criticism all the time despite performing poorly. I'm still relatively uneasy on predicting where they'll end up though. If Mourinho were able to get away with his defensive stuff I'd fancy them to be top two definitely but he'll be forced to play in a manner I'm not sure he likes and as such, not sure how successful it'll be over a full season.

    Spurs/Liverpool will be a good game. You've done very well at our place last few seasons, even last year you were one of the best teams to visit WHL. We've been decent but still trying to figure out the new system - played 4-4-2 for the first time under Poch last week. Dominated but lacked cohesion. Be very interested to see how we set up against Liverpool - two teams who generally like to play the same way. Should be a good game and couldn't call it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Would agree about Utd. They spend vast sums every year and seem to escape criticism all the time despite performing poorly. I'm still relatively uneasy on predicting where they'll end up though. If Mourinho were able to get away with his defensive stuff I'd fancy them to be top two definitely but he'll be forced to play in a manner I'm not sure he likes and as such, not sure how successful it'll be over a full season.

    Spurs/Liverpool will be a good game. You've done very well at our place last few seasons, even last year you were one of the best teams to visit WHL. We've been decent but still trying to figure out the new system - played 4-4-2 for the first time under Poch last week. Dominated but lacked cohesion. Be very interested to see how we set up against Liverpool - two teams who generally like to play the same way. Should be a good game and couldn't call it.
    Escape criticism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallahassee View Post
    Escape criticism?
    To a point, yeah. I don't how much Utd have spent in the previous 2/3 seasons but I bet it's a lot. I remember the constant crap Spurs took over spending the £80m we got for Bale and our expectations are much lower than those of Utd. I've seen criticism but nowhere near as much as I reckon they could have got.

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    Any Saint-United fans on here who attend games? Nice to put faces to names and all that.

    It was a flash back to the good old days last night. 0-0 against a side with 9 men behind the ball for long periods before proceeding to throw the kitchen sink at them in the last 10 mins.
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