Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 106

Thread: The Football Thread - 2016/17

  1. #1
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default The Football Thread - 2016/17

    Time we all got back on the footie chat I reckon. The season starts in 48 hours when Newcastle go to Fulham, and the PL is only 10 days away. Let's get this ball rolling.

    Who is happy with their teams Summer business?
    Who is not?

    Any early season predictions?

    All in here please.

  2. #2
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Helens, Lancashire
    Age
    48
    Posts
    4,675
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    I'm not sure to be honest. Hopefully when it starts I'll get enthused about it all again but despite still watching football there's a lot not to like about it these days

    We (MUFC) seem to have done some decent business. Bailly already looks better than the dross we have at centre back, Mkhitaryan looks classy and Zlatan is just Zlatan

    Strange that there was no chat on here about the Euros, again despite watching all the games I found it all quite uninspiring. Enjoyed Wimbledon and the Open (golf) much more

    I think United could be right back up there though, not because we're good or anything, but because it's been a pretty average league for a long time now. It's amazing what confidence does to players - it allows them to play their best every week. Mourinho will certainly instill that into them if nothing else

    I do not see Leicester finishing in the top 4 this season

  3. #3
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Yeah, it was telling that none of us bothered to get the chat going during the Euro's. It was a poor tournament, won by a poor team, with the new format rewarding mediocrity. I am watching the Premier League as a neutral (again) and have to agree that despite it looking very competitive it might not be a great season in terms of quality.

    I think United have a half decent chance of winning the league, simply because Jose buys big players who can improve a team quickly. The players you've brought in will fit in quickly, and you still have DDG who is just invaluable. I'm genuinely surprised by the chase for Pogba, who I think is very overrated. A good player with a presence, but for me he isn't world class and nowhere near worth this mad kind of money. I honestly believe people in this country have developed an opinion of Pogba based on nothing but being told that he's great. He had an awful Euro's, as the talisman of France he was an awful let down. I've seen him a lot at Juve and I think he's good, but not great. Pogba will IMO be the new Veron. A good player who was decent in Italy, will arrive in England, look fantastic for a few months then get bogged down.

    As for everyone else, Liverpool have improved in goal (despite the injury), have brought in goals in Mane and Wijnaldum, but for me still look light in midfield if Can and Henderson are the first choice duo there, and... how is Moreno still first choice LB?! Chelsea will improve but won't challenge for the title yet this season, and Arsenal IMO have not done the one thing they need to do and sign a star striker. Spurs have been pretty quiet, and I'm really intrigued by them this season. Was last season a building block to something even better this season, or did they blow a golden opportunity and will it be hard for those players to believe they can challenge?

    Title winners? City I would imagine. Pep buys big, he buys proven quality, and that group of players should be motivated to win it this season. Guardiola said it was a challenge going to City. No Pep, going to Spurs or Liverpool and trying to win a title would be a challenge. Going to City was the easy move, much like going to Bayern. I slag Jose off from time to time, but he did it all at Porto so he can walk the walk. Pep will win the league and maybe the European Cup at City and I'll still have no idea if he's a brilliant coach or not.

    Leicester? Hopefully a fun ride in the CL and hopefully for them they hang around for a while. People are writing them off far too much, saying Top 10 would be good. I think they have enough quality to finish in the Top 6, but of course that motivation and desire to achieve the impossible has now gone, and they'll lose that added intensity as a result.

    As for my team, well it's been a feel good Summer in Newcastle. Rafa has instilled a new energy in the city. The fanbase are positive, there have been loads of tickets sold, loads of good players brought in and we approach it all in good spirits. Relegation is hell, but it could turn out to be the best thing that's happened to us in a long time. Onwards and upwards.

  4. #4
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newton-le-Willows; East Side of the Fence.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    12,670
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post

    Title winners? City I would imagine. Pep buys big, he buys proven quality, and that group of players should be motivated to win it this season. Guardiola said it was a challenge going to City. No Pep, going to Spurs or Liverpool and trying to win a title would be a challenge. Going to City was the easy move, much like going to Bayern. I slag Jose off from time to time, but he did it all at Porto so he can walk the walk. Pep will win the league and maybe the European Cup at City and I'll still have no idea if he's a brilliant coach or not.
    I don't often say this about your stuff, but that's a load of cobblers! :-)

    Pep has inherited a squad with an average age of 30 that looked very much a spent force. By common consensus, this was not a squad made for him, it was one that needed a complete overhaul.

    Only one player that we have signed is a stonewall first team regular and he's injured. Nolito will be in there more often than not. Sane will be used sparingly. The others not at all. It actually looks pretty much like we'll start the season with the same team that we finished last season with.

    If and when United sign Pogba, they will be favourites and rightfully so.

    If Pep gets that underperforming shower of last season to perform, then he's obviously got something. If he wins the title next year then he's proved his worth alright. If he wins the European Cup with the squad that we've got right now, then he'll be an absolute genius.

    Don't get kidded by this 'City can buy success' business. United have every bit as much to spend as we have and most of the Premier League can spend well in excess of £100 million themselves these days.

    Germany was a one horse race. This is nothing like that.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  5. #5
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I don't often say this about your stuff, but that's a load of cobblers! :-)

    Pep has inherited a squad with an average age of 30 that looked very much a spent force. By common consensus, this was not a squad made for him, it was one that needed a complete overhaul.

    Only one player that we have signed is a stonewall first team regular and he's injured. Nolito will be in there more often than not. Sane will be used sparingly. The others not at all. It actually looks pretty much like we'll start the season with the same team that we finished last season with.

    If and when United sign Pogba, they will be favourites and rightfully so.

    If Pep gets that underperforming shower of last season to perform, then he's obviously got something. If he wins the title next year then he's proved his worth alright. If he wins the European Cup with the squad that we've got right now, then he'll be an absolute genius.

    Don't get kidded by this 'City can buy success' business. United have every bit as much to spend as we have and most of the Premier League can spend well in excess of £100 million themselves these days.

    Germany was a one horse race. This is nothing like that.
    Disagree Dave. City will win the league if that team of yours plays to its potential. Not overachieving, not doing anything magical, but playing to their potential. Sane IMO will play alot more than you think he will, but we will see. Gundogan may be injured, but in a month he'll be your heartbeat in midfield and will give you the energy that Toure and co. failed to give last season. De Bruyne will be better this season, Silva (for his sake) will hopefully be accommodated a little deeper and allowed to influence play a bit more, and you still have the best striker in the league in Aguero. If those four plus Sane play to their potential you will boss most games and score lots of goals. Defensively I would say you are vulnerable, but going forward you will be very good, unless Pep asks you to pass it around and try and walk it in every game.

    Who do you see finishing above City if you play to your potential?

  6. #6
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    10,677
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Euros did nothing for me at all really. I only watched it to see how Spurs' players went and I thought Hodgson absolutely screwed most of them. Kane was so isolated it was ridiculous and even taking corners and Alli nowhere near the role he does for Tottenham. Dier showed his ability early on before being overran and Rose did okay. I just felt Hodgson buggered us. Imagine playing Sturridge wide right, just madness.

    As for this season, it's a complete enigma for me this year. I couldn't say with any confidence how I think Utd, City or Chelsea will go. They could be excellent or similar to last year. I don't think Liverpool will be particularly anywhere again and I fancy Leicester will drop like a stone. For us, we've signed a couple of nice additions, I think Wanyama is a superb signing and Janssen if he settles will offer good support for Kane. I think us and Arsenal will be the most settled of the top grouping but how much that matters, who knows. We'll be in the mix between of the top five I think and where we end up depends massively on how City, Utd and Chelsea go. Utd I can't see competing for the league, their side doesn't sit right for me.

    On paper, I think Chelsea look excellent and Kanté is an immense signing. City look very strong and should be closest to Chelsea IMO. How it'll go though, like I said, couldn't call it.

  7. #7
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newton-le-Willows; East Side of the Fence.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    12,670
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Disagree Dave. City will win the league if that team of yours plays to its potential. Not overachieving, not doing anything magical, but playing to their potential. Sane IMO will play alot more than you think he will, but we will see. Gundogan may be injured, but in a month he'll be your heartbeat in midfield and will give you the energy that Toure and co. failed to give last season. De Bruyne will be better this season, Silva (for his sake) will hopefully be accommodated a little deeper and allowed to influence play a bit more, and you still have the best striker in the league in Aguero. If those four plus Sane play to their potential you will boss most games and score lots of goals. Defensively I would say you are vulnerable, but going forward you will be very good, unless Pep asks you to pass it around and try and walk it in every game.

    Who do you see finishing above City if you play to your potential?
    If that's the case then the team hasn't been playing to its potential and if Guardiola can do that then that does prove something about his capabilities.

    However, the fact remains that it's been an aging side and needed rebuilding. Don't forget, I saw this team play every game last season. There were just so many things wrong.

    As I say, it's not a one horse league. Yes, we do have the best squad of individuals, but have we a better team. I would say Pogba would be the man to make United that better team. Spurs for the most part were a better team than us last season and could be again.

    What is the potential of Mangala, Otamendi and Kolarov?

    Believe me, Pep has a job on his hand and its ridiculous to compare this job to the Bayern one, where he took over a team that had just won the lot, including the European Cup, at a club that systematically weakens the main opposition every year by taking their star player.

    At City, he's taken over a squad that's largely at the end of the line, with a big rebuilding job, who finished fourth last season. And no real big club is going to sell us their best player.

    We're favourites for this title purely because of the manager. If Pep was not in charge, United would be favourites, of that I'm certain.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    10,178
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I think Chelsea will go well if Hazard is motivated, he can make a good side into a great one if he is on his game.

    I don't see us doing much better than last year if I am honest. I am not convinced Karius was going to oust Mignolet as our number 1. I am not convinced by Matip at all, looks like a right footed Sakho but less of an athlete.

    Mane has impressed me in pre season, he is a much better player than I thought. His linkup with Firminho especially has been promising but I still think we will struggle for goals and be over reliant on keeping Sturridge fit which isn't the best thing to be relying on. Ings is a tryer but if you want to challenge for trophies you need better and Firminho is a better link player than goal scorer.

    Can and Moreno still here and look first choice. Deary me

  9. #9
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Believe me, Pep has a job on his hand and its ridiculous to compare this job to the Bayern one, where he took over a team that had just won the lot, including the European Cup, at a club that systematically weakens the main opposition every year by taking their star player.
    On that you are right, and I didn't explain myself properly there. I'm not comparing coming to City (with Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, United and Liverpool also big clubs with loads of money as competition) to going to Bayern, the two are very different of course. I was simply saying that he has taken the easy options since leaving Barca. Taking the Bayern job may have been culturally attractive to him, but it wasn't a tough job given his reputation and the task at hand. Bayern IMO didn't improve under him at all. So, I was saying that he seemingly has taken a job where he is more likely to win things than a job where he really has a challenge.

    He obviously wanted to manage in England, and if you want to maximise your chances of winning something relatively quickly in England in 2016 you take the City job over any other IMO. The United job is a poisoned chalice and has been since Ferguson left, with a demanding fan base and I reckon it's a big challenge for Mourinho. Arsenal haven't won the league for a while and replacing someone like Wenger, coupled with the apparent financial model there would be a huge challenge. Taking a job like Spurs (who haven't won the league since 1961) would be a massive challenge with no guarantee of success, and taking a job like Liverpool who again haven't won the league since 1990 but have a very demanding fanbase would be extremely difficult.

    So, out of all the big jobs in England City is the easiest for me in terms of getting success, or at least maximising your chances of it. That's what I meant. I did not mean that City should stroll the PL like Bayern stroll the Bundesliga, but I explained it poorly.

  10. #10
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newton-le-Willows; East Side of the Fence.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    12,670
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    On that you are right, and I didn't explain myself properly there. I'm not comparing coming to City (with Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, United and Liverpool also big clubs with loads of money as competition) to going to Bayern, the two are very different of course. I was simply saying that he has taken the easy options since leaving Barca. Taking the Bayern job may have been culturally attractive to him, but it wasn't a tough job given his reputation and the task at hand. Bayern IMO didn't improve under him at all. So, I was saying that he seemingly has taken a job where he is more likely to win things than a job where he really has a challenge.

    He obviously wanted to manage in England, and if you want to maximise your chances of winning something relatively quickly in England in 2016 you take the City job over any other IMO. The United job is a poisoned chalice and has been since Ferguson left, with a demanding fan base and I reckon it's a big challenge for Mourinho. Arsenal haven't won the league for a while and replacing someone like Wenger, coupled with the apparent financial model there would be a huge challenge. Taking a job like Spurs (who haven't won the league since 1961) would be a massive challenge with no guarantee of success, and taking a job like Liverpool who again haven't won the league since 1990 but have a very demanding fanbase would be extremely difficult.

    So, out of all the big jobs in England City is the easiest for me in terms of getting success, or at least maximising your chances of it. That's what I meant. I did not mean that City should stroll the PL like Bayern stroll the Bundesliga, but I explained it poorly.
    My point is though, with all the rebuilding necessary, it isn't an easy job.

    Secondly, he didn't take our job in England because he thought it would be the easy job.

    a) Nobody else came in for him
    b) He was always going to be favourites to come to us due to his relationship with Berigistain and Soriano.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  11. #11
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blatherings on 13 Pro-Am podcast.Back home in St.Helens and in the South stand for service
    Posts
    8,500
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    I am hearing that City have put John Stones in their CL squad? Interesting if they don't actually sign him.
    Learned comment from The Don

  12. #12
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I am hearing that City have put John Stones in their CL squad? Interesting if they don't actually sign him.
    Funny, because I picked him in my Fantasy team on the basis that I assumed he be at City or Chelsea by the end of the month!

  13. #13
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Helens, Lancashire
    Age
    48
    Posts
    4,675
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    So Pogba is back at United. It's a big statement from the PL, the first time we have gone out and bought one of the top players in the world for big money. Yes he's overpriced but he should improve the United squad regardless

  14. #14
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    10,677
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Fair play from United IMO. A genuine statement signing who'll improve them no end. Not rocket science what Mourinho's doing solidifying that spine - De Gea, Bailly, Pogba and Ibrahimovic doesn't half look strong. I still don't see them winning the title this time around but they'll be a lot closer than they would under the last dimwit they had managing.

    I reckon the days of them being a club that plays so much youth have gone for a bit though. Nobody spends money like Mourinho.

  15. #15
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    So Pogba is back at United. It's a big statement from the PL, the first time we have gone out and bought one of the top players in the world for big money. Yes he's overpriced but he should improve the United squad regardless
    Serious question mate, why is he one of the top players in the World? Why weren't Barca after him, or Bayern? Why do loads of serious journos in Italy think Juventus won't be that much worse off without him?

    He's just had a major tournament as the poster boy of the host nation and did almost nothing for the entire tournament. People in this country are raving about a player they have very rarely seen play, unless Serie A is far more popular than I reckon it is. People have been told this lad is amazing, and they've been told it over and over, and they've just taken it as fact. He is a good player, and on his day can win a game and control it. But his day is nowhere near often enough to justify £90m.

  16. #16
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    10,677
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Serious question mate, why is he one of the top players in the World? Why weren't Barca after him, or Bayern? Why do loads of serious journos in Italy think Juventus won't be that much worse off without him?

    He's just had a major tournament as the poster boy of the host nation and did almost nothing for the entire tournament. People in this country are raving about a player they have very rarely seen play, unless Serie A is far more popular than I reckon it is. People have been told this lad is amazing, and they've been told it over and over, and they've just taken it as fact. He is a good player, and on his day can win a game and control it. But his day is nowhere near often enough to justify £90m.
    I think he's good, with massive potential but he'll be tested something chronic in the PL where nearly all teams are physical.

    I also don't think for a second that kind of money should be going on anything but match winners. If it's a Bale, Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez - fine. Pogba doesn't fall into that category though.

  17. #17
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blatherings on 13 Pro-Am podcast.Back home in St.Helens and in the South stand for service
    Posts
    8,500
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Fergie let him go for nowt and he wasn't a bad judge of a player.
    Learned comment from The Don

  18. #18
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    I reckon the days of them being a club that plays so much youth have gone for a bit though. Nobody spends money like Mourinho.
    Agreed. One of LvG's few achievements at United was giving some young lads playing time. Alot of them were raw, but the quality and potential was there to see. I think with Mourinho they'll have to go back on the shelf, because he just doesn't have time for kids. And I mean that literally, he doesn't have enough time to invest in a building job based around kids, because he usually doesn't last more than 3 years anywhere. He wants success straight away and doesn't have the patience to build it organically. He's a good coach no doubt, but sometimes it'd be nice seeing him try to develop a bunch of young players instead of just opening up the wallet and buying star names.

  19. #19
    In The West Stand The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,040
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Could be a fascinating year. You've got United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leicester, Liverpool, Southampton, West Ham, Everton all capable of competing for European places. You'd usually say that whoever won the title the previous season would be favourite next time but not this year, it really is anyone's to win. Other leagues might have better teams, but the premier league is by far and away the best league.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  20. #20
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Helens, Lancashire
    Age
    48
    Posts
    4,675
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Serious question mate, why is he one of the top players in the World? Why weren't Barca after him, or Bayern? Why do loads of serious journos in Italy think Juventus won't be that much worse off without him?and they've just taken it as fact
    That's a very interesting question. Personally I don't see him as a top player, yet, despite calling him one

    I just think it's unusual for an English club to go out and buy one of the biggest foreign 'stars' - he's more of a big name with massive potential than a genuine game changer at present

    RM were after him too so it's unusual for a big name in his prime to choose the PL over La Liga, although his agent and the fact he has been here before are key factors in the decision

  21. #21
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    That's a very interesting question. Personally I don't see him as a top player, yet, despite calling him one

    I just think it's unusual for an English club to go out and buy one of the biggest foreign 'stars' - he's more of a big name with massive potential than a genuine game changer at present

    RM were after him too so it's unusual for a big name in his prime to choose the PL over La Liga, although his agent and the fact he has been here before are key factors in the decision
    I agree with that. I think it's a bizarre time for him to leave though. Juve have just signed Higuain and Pjanic and look set to have a real go at winning the Champions League. To leave to go to a team not in the CL this Summer seems strange to me. In twelve months he'd still be in big demand, so I thought he'd stay there for another season.

  22. #22
    In The West Stand The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,040
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I agree with that. I think it's a bizarre time for him to leave though. Juve have just signed Higuain and Pjanic and look set to have a real go at winning the Champions League. To leave to go to a team not in the CL this Summer seems strange to me. In twelve months he'd still be in big demand, so I thought he'd stay there for another season.
    You'd argue that they signed Pjanic as Pogba's replacement before he'd even left and the Higuain transfer was only possible because of the Pogba money they knew they were getting. Not so sure they'd have signed either if Pogba was going to stay.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  23. #23
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blatherings on 13 Pro-Am podcast.Back home in St.Helens and in the South stand for service
    Posts
    8,500
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    I am going to stick my neck out here and say that Pogba and Zlatan will not impress in their first year in the prem. Completely different test than the pub leagues they have been playing in.

    Still think United will go close but Ratchford and Martial will be the players that do it for them.
    Learned comment from The Don

  24. #24
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,318
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I am going to stick my neck out here and say that Pogba and Zlatan will not impress in their first year in the prem. Completely different test than the pub leagues they have been playing in.
    Zlatan yes, but Pogba has not been playing in anything like a pub league mate.

  25. #25
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blatherings on 13 Pro-Am podcast.Back home in St.Helens and in the South stand for service
    Posts
    8,500
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    Serie A is a poor league in my opinion with only 4/5 decent teams.Juve only had a tough match once a month.
    Learned comment from The Don

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •