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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    ...By the time we get to the middle 8's section of the season its pretty obvious that we are unable to actually qualify for the top 4 we should really take the opportunity of blooding as many of the young lads as possibly from the Reserves / Academy.

    I very rarely get to see the lower grades these days but we always seem to be there or thereabouts at the top of the respective competitions.

    Whilst we hear about all the promising talent (Wellington, Grace, Levy, etc.) the message always seems to be that they are not quite ready yet. However, over the other side of Billinge Lump Shaun Wane always seems more willing to give his youngsters opportunities - possibly this season more out of necessity but even so they seem to get a crack. On Thursday another young lad I have never heard of Shorrocks played for them and gave it a good shot and didn't look out of place.

    If this season ultimately fizzles out in the middle 8's it would be an absolute shame not to at least get some benefit out of it. I really think if that is the scenario we face lets derive some benefit and chuck as many of the young lads as possible in to blood them and get Super league game time experience. Results will be secondary and I am sure our fans would cut them some slack.

    Just my thoughts. In the interim we can live in hope of scraping into the four if one of the current leaders have a collapse in form.

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    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    I've posted this on another thread recently, but I suspect the club are holding back our young players to protect them.
    I do agree with you though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    ...By the time we get to the middle 8's section of the season its pretty obvious that we are unable to actually qualify for the top 4 we should really take the opportunity of blooding as many of the young lads as possibly from the Reserves / Academy.

    I very rarely get to see the lower grades these days but we always seem to be there or thereabouts at the top of the respective competitions.

    Whilst we hear about all the promising talent (Wellington, Grace, Levy, etc.) the message always seems to be that they are not quite ready yet. However, over the other side of Billinge Lump Shaun Wane always seems more willing to give his youngsters opportunities - possibly this season more out of necessity but even so they seem to get a crack. On Thursday another young lad I have never heard of Shorrocks played for them and gave it a good shot and didn't look out of place.

    If this season ultimately fizzles out in the middle 8's it would be an absolute shame not to at least get some benefit out of it. I really think if that is the scenario we face lets derive some benefit and chuck as many of the young lads as possible in to blood them and get Super league game time experience. Results will be secondary and I am sure our fans would cut them some slack.

    Just my thoughts. In the interim we can live in hope of scraping into the four if one of the current leaders have a collapse in form.
    Agreed. I didn't know anything about Shorrocks either but he did OK.

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    [QUOTE=Div;654636]...

    The other side of Billinge Lump

    Us old Billingers, irrespective of our sporting affiliations, prefer Billinger HILL.

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    Disappointed now, thought this was going to be a thread about Rudyard Kipling.

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    [QUOTE=hillsider;654643]
    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    ...

    The other side of Billinge Lump

    Us old Billingers, irrespective of our sporting affiliations, prefer Billinger HILL.
    Surely its real name is Billinge Beacon? Anyway in St Helens the affectionate name has always been Billinge Lump.

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    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    It would certainly add a bit of incentive to going to watch what in all probability be a set of meaningless fuxtures, as well as giving Genius an opportunity to look at some of the ones who could / should be challenging for inclusion in the first 17 next year........if we are unfortunate enough for him to be in charge still.
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    It would certainly add a bit of incentive to going to watch what in all probability be a set of meaningless fuxtures, as well as giving Genius an opportunity to look at some of the ones who could / should be challenging for inclusion in the first 17 next year........if we are unfortunate enough for him to be in charge still.
    Dave, it looks like he is here for the long haul now being honest. like I say we may be able to salvage something from what looks a pretty disastrous campaign up to now.

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    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Dave, it looks like he is here for the long haul now being honest. like I say we may be able to salvage something from what looks a pretty disastrous campaign up to now.
    It would appear so Paul.

    If we can get back to playing like we did in the second half on a consistent basis, stop bizarre, unwarranted and unfathomable team selections and his public criticism of younger players, I don't mind at all - I could even cope with his bizarre statements.

    If however we revert to CunninghamStyle or he mentions wanting his structure back..........


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    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    I posted on another thread how Wigan had found out they had a first team Stand Off injured and just phoned one of the young lads and told him he was playing , I said our coach would have just picked a forward there because ours are too young.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    ...By the time we get to the middle 8's section of the season its pretty obvious that we are unable to actually qualify for the top 4 we should really take the opportunity of blooding as many of the young lads as possibly from the Reserves / Academy.

    I very rarely get to see the lower grades these days but we always seem to be there or thereabouts at the top of the respective competitions.

    Whilst we hear about all the promising talent (Wellington, Grace, Levy, etc.) the message always seems to be that they are not quite ready yet. However, over the other side of Billinge Lump Shaun Wane always seems more willing to give his youngsters opportunities - possibly this season more out of necessity but even so they seem to get a crack. On Thursday another young lad I have never heard of Shorrocks played for them and gave it a good shot and didn't look out of place.

    If this season ultimately fizzles out in the middle 8's it would be an absolute shame not to at least get some benefit out of it. I really think if that is the scenario we face lets derive some benefit and chuck as many of the young lads as possible in to blood them and get Super league game time experience. Results will be secondary and I am sure our fans would cut them some slack.

    Just my thoughts. In the interim we can live in hope of scraping into the four if one of the current leaders have a collapse in form.
    I doubt the coach will see it that way. Would he be prepared to be the first coach to run in a negative win/loss ratio in league and cup games over a 64 year period to give the youngsters a chance? I doubt it. I'm not so sure his position is safe and if we end up with a league record of, say W 13, L 17, then I think he's gone and blooding youngsters may not be seen as a valid excuse.

    As far as the youngsters are concerned, I'd rather see them spend another year getting the rugby coached back into them, that had previously been coached out of them, if you see what I mean. I heard bad reports about how some of the youngsters had had their playing style suppressed and that's why few have come through and done anything. However, I am hearing very good things about Wellens and Gardner. The Under 19s are ripping up trees but I'm not so sure that 'the plan' or 'the grind' is going to do much for their development.

    I'm just hoping that KC is finally starting to see sense in that we play much better when we drop the aforementioned dismal tactics and get back to playing rugby and that next year we will provide a better environment for youngsters coming through.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I doubt the coach will see it that way. Would he be prepared to be the first coach to run in a negative win/loss ratio in league and cup games over a 64 year period to give the youngsters a chance? I doubt it. I'm not so sure his position is safe and if we end up with a league record of, say W 13, L 17, then I think he's gone and blooding youngsters may not be seen as a valid excuse.

    I get this but you would hope there is a bigger picture / longer term view rather than dwelling on the statistics. Irrespective of the numbers the reality is we will win feck all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I get this but you would hope there is a bigger picture / longer term view rather than dwelling on the statistics. Irrespective of the numbers the reality is we will win feck all.
    But when his job is on the line, all HE is going to care about is the short term.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twentyman View Post
    Disappointed now, thought this was going to be a thread about Rudyard Kipling.
    "If you can keep your head while all around are losing theirs and blaming it on you."
    KC thinks that's the story of his season.

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    Learning All The Songs Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    ...By the time we get to the middle 8's section of the season its pretty obvious that we are unable to actually qualify for the top 4 we should really take the opportunity of blooding as many of the young lads as possibly from the Reserves / Academy.

    I very rarely get to see the lower grades these days but we always seem to be there or thereabouts at the top of the respective competitions.

    Whilst we hear about all the promising talent (Wellington, Grace, Levy, etc.) the message always seems to be that they are not quite ready yet. However, over the other side of Billinge Lump Shaun Wane always seems more willing to give his youngsters opportunities - possibly this season more out of necessity but even so they seem to get a crack. On Thursday another young lad I have never heard of Shorrocks played for them and gave it a good shot and didn't look out of place.

    If this season ultimately fizzles out in the middle 8's it would be an absolute shame not to at least get some benefit out of it. I really think if that is the scenario we face lets derive some benefit and chuck as many of the young lads as possible in to blood them and get Super league game time experience. Results will be secondary and I am sure our fans would cut them some slack.

    Just my thoughts. In the interim we can live in hope of scraping into the four if one of the current leaders have a collapse in form.
    Yep, I'm with you Div;

    You have to give a lot of credit to Wigan for there willingness to blood the youngsters, and it isn't just the Warriors, I've made the point about the scrum half from Catalans before.

    St Helens are doing well in the reserves and the U'19s. The top performers should be rewarded with a taste of the first team. This is the only way to know if they are ready or not.

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Yep, I'm with you Div;

    You have to give a lot of credit to Wigan for there willingness to blood the youngsters, and it isn't just the Warriors, I've made the point about the scrum half from Catalans before.

    St Helens are doing well in the reserves and the U'19s. The top performers should be rewarded with a taste of the first team. This is the only way to know if they are ready or not.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Do you reckon the senior pros help their lads coming through better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    But when his job is on the line, all HE is going to care about is the short term.

    I don't think his job is on the line. I firmly believe it will take a lot more losses to dislodge him. Yesterday the club avoided a banana skin against a team that were the definition of moderate, but it's enough for KC in that the club will continue to back their man.

    There's a joined up narrative from both the head coach about new signings for next season which suggests KC is in it for the long haul. Irrespective of how the club have fallen so quickly with supposedly better squads than 2014 it seems he has the backing of those who make the decisions.

    On subject of Div's post, I'd suspect such a strong group of younger players should be ready to push for places. I walked past Regan Grace and he looked quite small yet, but it's talent that wins games not 'bulk' and surely the likes of Wilkin, Vea, turner should be feeling more competition for their places than at present

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallahassee View Post
    Do you reckon the senior pros help their lads coming through better?
    I'm not totally sure how Wigan reserves play but I'd imagine it's in a similar style to the first team so that they can slot in and know their role straight away.

    With ours, it seems like the reserves play a different style of rugby to our first team, making it harder to fill in as they have to adapt to a different style of rugby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Forward Bloke View Post
    I'm not totally sure how Wigan reserves play but I'd imagine it's in a similar style to the first team so that they can slot in and know their role straight away.
    It is but as I posted elsewhere, at any time there are half a dozen youngsters training full time with the first team. They are then ready to step up if called upon.

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    Our Reserves/U19s absolutely smashed these Wigan youngsters

    They need a chance

    Top 4 place is already lost

    We are now guaranteed Top 8

    Rather than buy substandard players for next season, we have 11 games to give our young players a chance, starting with Danny Richardson, Calvin Wellington and Olli Davies

    Lets see if they are any good at SL level, NOTHING TO LOSE !!!

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    Having watched the under 19s several times they play a completely different style to the 1st team with long range moves and tries the norm .

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    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    I'm all for blooding the youngsters, there's quite a few showing enough talent and potential to warrant a run in the first team.

    My only worry though is with Cunningham, who has shown a total inability to manage young players, feeling the need to pin his failings on them. He could destroy a potentially great young player.

    There's Tommy Hughes in the reserves too, ex England RU 7s player who's looked good every time I've seen him. Not sure what his contract/expectations are, but maybe another one worth a try in the first team.

    Crying shame we have a guy who can't manage/motivate them properly
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Learning All The Songs Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallahassee View Post
    Do you reckon the senior pros help their lads coming through better?
    I'm not so sure on that, but for mine the Saints coach Cunningham, can be overly conservative, negative even, with his team selection- he has chosen to play LMS in the centres, Wilkin in the halves, and run with four forwards on the interchange bench more often than not. So it seems to be more of a coaching philosophy than anything else.

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Saint View Post
    Having watched the under 19s several times they play a completely different style to the 1st team with long range moves and tries the norm .
    How we would love to see that from the first team.

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