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Thread: Best/Worst St Helens coaches of SL era

  1. #26
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    Not old enough to have a real opinion on the full rundown but...

    1) Anderson- coached the best Saints side I'll ever see
    2) Millward- laid the foundations for that side
    3) McRae- I was only just old enough to see McRae but his has a very decent record (71% wins I believe) and I remember us being pretty entertaining
    4) Brown- I can't really unanimously argue with those giving him credit on here but I think he was tactically all over the shop for 20 odd months and then once we lost all our players to injury, he comes up with some incredible tactical masterplan (or maybe KC did!?!?!?!) and we go on to fluke the Grand Final by grinding out victories (with a large helping of assistance from a Wigan player). It was him who started off all this rotation of players (not only in and out of the side, but also in to different postitions. Also rotated goal kickers every other week) that KC is getting hammered for now, even before the injuries. His recruitment was top quality though, he'd make a world class Director of Rugby.
    I can't really rank Hanley anywhere as I probably watched about three matches of him in charge and I don't think there was much difference between Potter and Simmons.
    8) KC- shocking recruitment, tactically inept, has favourite players (Richards, Wilkin, Vea, Owens, Dawson), which I'd understand if they were any good, ruins good players (Turner, Savelio, Thompson, Greenwood next?) by dropping them or messing with their positions in the side and then slates them in the media (without using their names a lot of the time), belittles and offends fans with press comments, encourages turgid rugby both publicly and privately, employs a half back as defence coach and wonders why our defence is terrible, employs a winger as strength and conditioning coach and wonders why our pack is always knackered, rotates too much... woah, there's a lot isn't there?

  2. #27
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    I would argue Hanley was necessary to sort out the attitude and mental toughness of the team. He did recruit Iro, Nickle and Hoppe for his first year. Second year recruitment was a disaster zone

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    Anderson gets full credit for 2006, but that was really Millward's team with a more disciplined 'structure'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Anderson gets full credit for 2006, but that was really Millward's team with a more disciplined 'structure'.
    I don't think we'd have gone a whole season without losing a game by more than a score under Millward. That Saints side was the equivalent of the Arsenal invincibles. You can't go unbeaten in pro RL, so to have been in every single match going in to the last play is as good as it gets. Remarkable achievement

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    1. Millward - brilliant entertainment
    2. Anderson - results machine
    3. McRae - 1996 ...
    4. Brown - started to turn us around
    5. Hanley - Odd bloke but another who brought us success
    6. Simmons - less boring than Potter
    7. Potter - start of the real rot for me, took us backwards and churned out dire rugby
    8. A less successful version of Potter

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    1 Millward
    2 Anderson
    3 McRae
    4 Hanley
    5 Brown
    6 Potter
    7 Simmons
    8 KC

    Loved the times and rugby under Millward. Even remember the sit in at Knowsley Rd.

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    Default Best/Worst St Helens coaches of SL era

    How can you compare Brown and KC with McRae who had Goulding, Joynt, Gibbs, Perillini and Newlove?

    Or The others who had Scully, Long, KC, Wello, Lyon?

    I think Cunningham is a poor coach but to be measuring him against coaches who had some of the greatest players in the clubs history while he has Owens, Dawson and Richards is never going to be fair.

    I've never really bought into the idea of any of them being great, look at their record on leaving Saints for reference. That team would have done as well with Brown in charge as Hanley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    How can you compare Brown and KC with McRae who had Goulding, Joynt, Gibbs, Perillini and Newlove?

    Or The others who had Scully, Long, KC, Wello, Lyon?

    I think Cunningham is a poor coach but to be measuring him against coaches who had some of the greatest players in the clubs history while he has Owens, Dawson and Richards is never going to be fair.

    I've never really bought into the idea of any of them being great, look at their record on leaving Saints for reference. That team would have done as well with Brown in charge as Hanley
    I'd argue the competition was a lot better too...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    I'd argue the competition was a lot better too...
    There were only a couple of teams capable of winning the league though. I would say the standard of player was higher (not including Heath Cruickshank in that statement)

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    Millward certainly my favourite but McCrae is up there for me. He had a fitness background in coaching didn't he and turned us into winners as a result. No question of who is the worst. The fact that he knows everything must be giving him information overload.

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    Anderson got the best results but the best time to be a Saints fan in the SL era was with Millward for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Anderson got the best results but the best time to be a Saints fan in the SL era was with Millward for me
    Easy to forget the hammerings we used to get at times and the old betting fiasco when you look back at the good times. Also, that Wigan loss at Murrayfield *shudders*

  13. #38
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    There was always something going on. I enjoyed the betting thing myself, it was proper funny

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    Easy to forget the hammerings we used to get at times and the old betting fiasco when you look back at the good times. Also, that Wigan loss at Murrayfield *shudders*
    The tough times are easier to take when the good ones are so good. I remember well the bad defeats and a pack with Barry Ward in it. All worth it for the breathtaking rugby and of course actual success

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    Millward's Saints could lose by 50 or win by 50 on any given day against any opposition. One of the most precocious, enigmatic teams I've ever seen.

    It's ability to go from the comedic to the sublime also meant that you couldn't ever write us off, even if we were 20 points behind.

    Cunningham can try and convince himself he needs to make us a "ruthless" arm wrestling team of grinders but it's Millward's Saints we all want to see. I wish the club would accept that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    Millward's Saints could lose by 50 or win by 50 on any given day against any opposition. One of the most precocious, enigmatic teams I've ever seen.

    It's ability to go from the comedic to the sublime also meant that you couldn't ever write us off, even if we were 20 points behind.

    Cunningham can try and convince himself he needs to make us a "ruthless" arm wrestling team of grinders but it's Millward's Saints we all want to see. I wish the club would accept that.
    There were times when I wish we knew how to shut up shop but I'll say one thing, I don't ever remember being bored watching us back then.

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    It could be argued that McCrae inherited the squad that Eric Hughes had built in the early 90's, its hard to say. Anyway ive always thought a coaches input in successful teams is overstated. Back then, when McCrae took over everything seemed to be in place at Saints. We had a group of good/great players breaking through from the A' team, we'd signed a number of good players in key areas, Goulding, Joynt and the real star turn Paul Newlove. Added to this we'd recruited Gibbs and Perelini from RU. So, you could sort of feel things snowballing. We'd lost the regal trophy narrowly to Wigan under Hughes but when they were still considered to be top dog.

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    I remember feeling really upbeat after that Regal Trophy final defeat because I could see that we had just about caught the Pie eaters up. IIRC it was a nine point defeat, but the last score was in injury time, and my mate and I felt that we would be there or thereabouts at the end of the first SL season. The work that Eric Hughes did to get that squad together, along with David Howes, by some distance the best CEO the club has ever had, should never be forgotten or underestimated.

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    Best MILLWARD
    Worst CUNNINHAM

  20. #45
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    We did get tonked a few times under Millward, but we didn't lose too many big games. I think we won 4 out of 5 Final under him, which is an incredible record really. So, I always had faith that when we got to the big games we would invariably win, which was maybe as much down to the faith I had in those players as Millward, but the faith was there nonetheless. I think the defeat at Murrayfield showed us all how blasé we were getting under Millward, because we simply expected to win those Finals because we were so good.

    But, Buddy has uncovered the elephant in the room here, and that is that none of the coaches we have had in Super League can really be considered GREAT. None of them have done much away from St Helens, and some have been unmitigated disasters after their time here. Great coaches can go from one club to another and build winning teams, and although I'll give Brown credit for re-viltalising Huddersfield and I'll give Potter credit for the way he handled a really sticky wicket at Bradford I don't consider any of the eight as top line elite coaches. A couple of them could prove me wrong yet though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post

    McRae turned a bit of a show-pony side under Hughes into title winners. I'll never forget the fuzzy memories of Wembley 96, nor the Warrington game that clinched the league with Picky dancing through in the dying minutes. But it did go sour before he'd left; 1998 was pretty awful. But 1996 gave the most joyous/relief-filled season of euphoria I've ever experienced in RL
    Correction it wal Appollo perelini's LAST MINUTE suspect Try that won it for us - lose at London and we were dead and buried.

    Mine:

    1 Anderson - turned an attractive team into a GREAT team remember 2006
    2 Millward - turned us into exciting winners
    3 McRae - Started us off
    4 Brown - recovered from losses of great players well
    5 Potter - Dull but good winning %
    6 Simmons - oh dear
    7 Hanley - I actually thought he was a very good coach but it all went wrong
    8 KC - nuff said

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    We did get tonked a few times under Millward, but we didn't lose too many big games. I think we won 4 out of 5 Final under him, which is an incredible record really. So, I always had faith that when we got to the big games we would invariably win, which was maybe as much down to the faith I had in those players as Millward, but the faith was there nonetheless. I think the defeat at Murrayfield showed us all how blasé we were getting under Millward, because we simply expected to win those Finals because we were so good.

    But, Buddy has uncovered the elephant in the room here, and that is that none of the coaches we have had in Super League can really be considered GREAT. None of them have done much away from St Helens, and some have been unmitigated disasters after their time here. Great coaches can go from one club to another and build winning teams, and although I'll give Brown credit for re-viltalising Huddersfield and I'll give Potter credit for the way he handled a really sticky wicket at Bradford I don't consider any of the eight as top line elite coaches. A couple of them could prove me wrong yet though!
    Potter took Catalans to Wembley too

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Potter took Catalans to Wembley too

    And Anderson had taken the NZW's to two GF's before us (winning the Dally M 'Coach of the Year' gong in 2002) and took the unfancied Eels to the GF in 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Tom Vol View Post
    Best MILLWARD
    Worst CUNNINHAM


    Agreed.


    And what makes it worse is that the worst has openly said he doesn't want us to play like the best....

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    Quote Originally Posted by WidnesExile View Post
    Correction it wal Appollo perelini's LAST MINUTE suspect Try that won it for us - lose at London and we were dead and buried.
    I remember that, too - his over-the-shoulder-but-was-it-a-double-movement effort. London did take a vital point off the pie scum, too - last minute kick from wide out IIRC. Picky did dance through the Wire defence for a late try to win us that game, but it was earlier in the season - my memory is just a bit knackered after years of self-abuse of the brain.

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