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Thread: What will it take for the board to act?

  1. #101
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    His position is untenable. It is like watching a rabbit caught in the headlights, he is a shocking evaluator of talent as his recruitment has shown. He cannot be allowed another off season to bring in his players, it will set us back into the next decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    Felt sorry for Owens tonight, he didn't deserve to be singled out with the abuse he took from supporters.
    I feel way more sorry for me given I have a copy of a bank statement showing how much I paid to watch this shite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F4RSH View Post
    Back to the original question; what will it take for the board to act?
    I think a 50 - 0 defeat would have done it!
    Unfortunately wire declared at 26 - 0 and packed in playing!
    I said a few weeks back he needed to go before wire at home because a few early tries and a poor performance would witness a toxic atmosphere that was awful tonight it must have been uncomfortable for Eamon and Rush (hopefully it was!)
    We need a new coach in place before our next home game v Hull KR just so the fans get behind the players!
    Most people around me tonight wanted wire to get 50 to crank up the pressure on Eamon to do the right thing for the long term future if the club and dismiss KC on Monday morning.
    Have to agree with this. I said a few weeks back that the current situation reminded me of when Cullen was in charge of Wire in the final weeks before he was relieved of his post. The fans by that stage had turned on him big time and I hate to say that it looks the same with KC.

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    5 of the Wire team last night, had not trained in the week. Westwood and Simms were missing, and yet the likes of Hill, Baily and Currie bullied us off the park, and allowed Gidley and Sandow to have a field day.
    Only for the sheer guts of Lomax in that 74th minute, we would have been nilled. What is going on at our club?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Who mentioned LMS? Don't agree with you however another one simply not good enough. Name too long? Contact too long more like.
    DIV at 23:44........

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    Quote Originally Posted by D249746p View Post
    DIV at 23:44........
    Think you better take another read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    That's bull. Hardly his fault, especially when his coach is telling everyone is the best thing since sliced bread. What's he supposed to do? Refuse to play when picked?

    Booing Owens whenever he got the ball was bad enough, the rest was just disgusting. Or is that the way forward for you now? Let's boo every player of limited ability shall we? Feck me.
    I watched owens a lot last night and he was pure garbage. You are just one of them pathetic morons that likes to defend people just to be different..

    Owens is not trusted by his team mates, that showed when dawson and fages failed to pass to him on numerous occassions
    He was ordering lomax and dawson around and they taken no notice of him, he just kept pointing to random positions on the pitch.
    He ran the ball in fast and at the last minute passed the ball stupidly and lomax almost dropped it because of the pass. He was at fault for the second try.

    We can boo all we want and saying owens has limited ability is an over statement

    Obviously IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by D249746p View Post
    I watched owens a lot last night and he was pure garbage. You are just one of them pathetic morons that likes to defend people just to be different..
    Lol where did the personal insults come from? Jesus wept.

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    Back to the thread...

    Cunningham's recent reference to a long term plan caught my eye. I can honestly see a scenario where the club dig in and KC remains coach through next season.

    The club is almost blaming the fans for its lack of success at the moment. Thats how dystopic the club has become. The leadership,is heading for a big fall in my honest opinion.

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    In The South Stand Paul Cullen's Mantra's Avatar
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    Economics should dictate that KC should go, but for some reason he is clinging on. Perhaps we have a long term plan, but I am in the camp of,"we haven't got a clue"....performances, players body language etc reflect this in my opinion.
    Fans are a fickle bunch it is true, but the slow deconstruction of the club is both a travesty and an insult to every loyal supporter across the country.
    Perhaps a good hammering by Catalan(I am not expecting anything less), will finally put things into perspective and be the catalyst for change....a sad thought,but sometimes these things are for the best..
    “It's been 31 years, since 1974, we last won a major (trophy and) Andrew Johns and Natty (Nathan Wood), our two oldest players were born in 1974 so it's a little bit spooky,”

    There is a common trait in teams at this point in the season that they seem to sit back and wait for somebody to win the game for them. And we had too many of our players waiting for someone to win the game.”

    "interfacing at the ruck"

    "winning the go-forward"

    "i thought we won the collision"

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    I think fans have known that the current malaise started a 18 months ago and the ground will be empty apart from a few of us die hards before anything is done.I cannot see a long term plan at the moment and maybe if someone at the club sets it out it would be a help.I think we are at the position now of losing the advantage of a new stadium.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cullen's Mantra View Post
    Perhaps a good hammering by Catalan(I am not expecting anything less), will finally put things into perspective and be the catalyst for change....a sad thought,but sometimes these things are for the best..
    I actually think a hammering from Catalans will not make any difference, as I believe KC has almost certainly written it off.
    The result will go almost unnoticed on Saturday due to the Euros, it being on the red button etc.
    Only the fans will notice, very little will be written for two reasons. 1. The Euros. 2. The RL press expect us to get stuffed.
    I think we all know that none of us expect him to be sacked before the end of the season. If EM has decided to let him go he will do it after the season has gone, so coverage will be at a minimum in the press. If he went during this season it will be a bigger 'mess' story than the story about our current poor form.

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    I'm still trying to be positive- there may well be a structured and effective plan waiting to be implemented , but if you want performance to improve that won't happen by telling people they're not good enough and are not being retained after their contract expires- it will only demoralise and reduce performance for anyone not staying. That may be why nothing is being said publicly. As I say - may just be me being overly hopeful!



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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I actually think a hammering from Catalans will not make any difference, as I believe KC has almost certainly written it off.
    The result will go almost unnoticed on Saturday due to the Euros, it being on the red button etc.
    Only the fans will notice, very little will be written for two reasons. 1. The Euros. 2. The RL press expect us to get stuffed.
    I think we all know that none of us expect him to be sacked before the end of the season. If EM has decided to let him go he will do it after the season has gone, so coverage will be at a minimum in the press. If he went during this season it will be a bigger 'mess' story than the story about our current poor form.
    Indeed. I've said much the same on the other forum. Saturday's game is probably the toughest weekly round fixture of the season, and we might well have expected to take a beating even if we were going well. So I don't expect the result on Saturday to have a significant effect on KC's position (unless of course we get an unlikely win - that, I'm sure, would buy him time). The match that has danger written all over it is HKR at home the following weekend. If we take a beating in that game in front of an angry home crowd then KC's position is going to become very difficult to defend. And it doesn't seem that unlikely, either; KR have some lively backs and like to throw the ball around, which combined with our edge defence isn't a recipe for success.

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    I don't buy 'long term plan' stuff or we know where we're going. I'm worried about this season, no Wembley appearance again and no top four is abject failure for this club, nowhere near good enough KC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Indeed. I've said much the same on the other forum. Saturday's game is probably the toughest weekly round fixture of the season, and we might well have expected to take a beating even if we were going well. So I don't expect the result on Saturday to have a significant effect on KC's position (unless of course we get an unlikely win - that, I'm sure, would buy him time). The match that has danger written all over it is HKR at home the following weekend. If we take a beating in that game in front of an angry home crowd then KC's position is going to become very difficult to defend. And it doesn't seem that unlikely, either; KR have some lively backs and like to throw the ball around, which combined with our edge defence isn't a recipe for success.
    Yes the Hull KR game will be uncomfortable for the club if we lose. The thing I have noticed with teams is that they have just worked us out, which is given poorer teams more chances. If a team does the standard attack, we are ok. But teams know to go up the middle to get some yards then quick play the ball to our edges almost always leaves us exposed. But worrying for me is teams are now scoring under the sticks, which was difficult to do against us in the past. I put this down to panic when a team chucks the ball around in our last 20. We just chase shadows.
    We are predictable, no plan B (or A it seems).
    But back to the point. I guess it will be a low crowd attendence, and if we go behind I fear the booing will be quite obvious..

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    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    To be honest I'd rather be in the Middle 8s with 7 interesting games to watch than be so far away from the top 4 that we have 7 meaningless end of season games. In that scenario, our season tickets would be consigned to the bin
    Are you serious? We would be playing Leeds, who will be getting players back, and will be a strong team, Huddersfield who will be tough, Maybe Wakefield/Salford who can both turn us over, and the big banana skin, Leigh, with a fired up Travis (hoping of course we have an agreement he does not play against us!). Top eight is a must.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I actually think a hammering from Catalans will not make any difference, as I believe KC has almost certainly written it off.
    The result will go almost unnoticed on Saturday due to the Euros, it being on the red button etc.
    Only the fans will notice, very little will be written for two reasons. 1. The Euros. 2. The RL press expect us to get stuffed.
    I think we all know that none of us expect him to be sacked before the end of the season. If EM has decided to let him go he will do it after the season has gone, so coverage will be at a minimum in the press. If he went during this season it will be a bigger 'mess' story than the story about our current poor form.
    Might have been the case a few years back, but not now, social media is king, its what is said on forums like this and others that colour people opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superarch View Post
    Are you serious? We would be playing Leeds, who will be getting players back, and will be a strong team, Huddersfield who will be tough, Maybe Wakefield/Salford who can both turn us over, and the big banana skin, Leigh, with a fired up Travis (hoping of course we have an agreement he does not play against us!). Top eight is a must.
    Is right, sleepwalk into a relegation battle, just what we need now.

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    Yes I'm serious. If the club allows Cunningham to take us there then so be it.

    I've wasted enough money via my ST this year already without having more if it down the pan with another 7 useless games in prospect.

    Perhaps competing in the middle 8s will bring McManus to his senses, which is long overdue.

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    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    I agree with Stephen that I don't think it's certain in any way that EM sacks KC even if we continue to struggle until the end of September. Whilst seeing Leeds struggle has been amusing, it really isn't working in our favour because for every bit of stick the club get thrown their way they can bat back with 'look at Leeds, it can happen to anyone'. This is their strongest defence, and despite it being flimsy and failing to take a real look at our issues I believe it will be the one they stick with.

    It's almost got to the point now where I think we are a couple of defeats away from our season being over in a technical sense. If we go into the Super 8s any further off the Top 4 than we are now we can kiss the Top 4 goodbye. Under that scenario, with wins being merely papering over crack devices I would actively hope that we lost all of our Super 8 games, ended up with a really bad W-L record and finished 7th or 8th. Whilst we are still in with half a shout I will want us to win despite my feelings about the coach, but once we are out of the race I want us to crash and burn to an extent that the fan anger and implications of inaction by the chairman reach a tipping point.

    I'm done with Cunningham as coach. I can take losing, I can take playing badly, and I can (despite his beliefs otherwise) be really patient if I see us 'heading in the right direction'. What I won't take is a prima donna coach who is awful at his job yet decides to take the p*** out of me and every one of you on here. I will not take being called a bandwagon jumping sheep because I have the nerve to criticise a coach who so obviously hasn't got a clue what he is doing. I will not take this man saying that I will 'pat him on the back' if we eventually win a few games as if I float with the wind and haven't got a brain in my head. As clever as Cunningham believes he is, I can bet lots of people on here are way cleverer than him, and will not take kindly to being patronised by a man who 'knows it all'.

    This stuff works both ways for me. We are supposed to suspend disbelief and presume that he will be a great coach because of what he did for us a player. Basically, we are ungrateful for what he did as a player because we think he's a fairly mediocre coach. But yet every bit of adulation that we threw on him in his playing career means nothing to him when he then decides to slag us all off. Where is his gratitude to us for the thousands of times we sang his name, dubbed him 'The King', created one of the most special atmospheres in the modern history of KR for his last league game, etc. That obviously means nothing to him now. So, he has decided to leave that side of his career to one side, yet we seemingly aren't allowed to. That doesn't work for me.

    I want us to change coaches ASAP. I'd like a coach who is competent, who has an inkling of what he is doing, can man manage young players, can make players better, and who doesn't decide that the best way to deflect stick is to rip the s*** out of the fans who loved him enough that they voted for him to have a statue outside the ground. Ultimately, I want St Helens to punch their weight in this sport, which we aren't doing at present. And it would be nice if in twenty years I see Cunningham on the TV or in the town and thought 'what a player that fella was' instead of thinking something entirely more negative.

    End it now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I agree with Stephen that I don't think it's certain in any way that EM sacks KC even if we continue to struggle until the end of September. Whilst seeing Leeds struggle has been amusing, it really isn't working in our favour because for every bit of stick the club get thrown their way they can bat back with 'look at Leeds, it can happen to anyone'. This is their strongest defence, and despite it being flimsy and failing to take a real look at our issues I believe it will be the one they stick with.

    It's almost got to the point now where I think we are a couple of defeats away from our season being over in a technical sense. If we go into the Super 8s any further off the Top 4 than we are now we can kiss the Top 4 goodbye. Under that scenario, with wins being merely papering over crack devices I would actively hope that we lost all of our Super 8 games, ended up with a really bad W-L record and finished 7th or 8th. Whilst we are still in with half a shout I will want us to win despite my feelings about the coach, but once we are out of the race I want us to crash and burn to an extent that the fan anger and implications of inaction by the chairman reach a tipping point.

    I'm done with Cunningham as coach. I can take losing, I can take playing badly, and I can (despite his beliefs otherwise) be really patient if I see us 'heading in the right direction'. What I won't take is a prima donna coach who is awful at his job yet decides to take the p*** out of me and every one of you on here. I will not take being called a bandwagon jumping sheep because I have the nerve to criticise a coach who so obviously hasn't got a clue what he is doing. I will not take this man saying that I will 'pat him on the back' if we eventually win a few games as if I float with the wind and haven't got a brain in my head. As clever as Cunningham believes he is, I can bet lots of people on here are way cleverer than him, and will not take kindly to being patronised by a man who 'knows it all'.

    This stuff works both ways for me. We are supposed to suspend disbelief and presume that he will be a great coach because of what he did for us a player. Basically, we are ungrateful for what he did as a player because we think he's a fairly mediocre coach. But yet every bit of adulation that we threw on him in his playing career means nothing to him when he then decides to slag us all off. Where is his gratitude to us for the thousands of times we sang his name, dubbed him 'The King', created one of the most special atmospheres in the modern history of KR for his last league game, etc. That obviously means nothing to him now. So, he has decided to leave that side of his career to one side, yet we seemingly aren't allowed to. That doesn't work for me.

    I want us to change coaches ASAP. I'd like a coach who is competent, who has an inkling of what he is doing, can man manage young players, can make players better, and who doesn't decide that the best way to deflect stick is to rip the s*** out of the fans who loved him enough that they voted for him to have a statue outside the ground. Ultimately, I want St Helens to punch their weight in this sport, which we aren't doing at present. And it would be nice if in twenty years I see Cunningham on the TV or in the town and thought 'what a player that fella was' instead of thinking something entirely more negative.

    End it now.
    Brilliant post, Warrington game finished it for me no heart, no passion, no idea.

  23. #123
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    That's brutal stuff Gray77 but still a very honest and respectful post

    Playing and coaching are two completely different disciplines. Cunningham might know everything about rugby but a competent coach needs to know a lot more I'm afraid

    From football Alex Ferguson, arguably the greatest manager we've seen in the game, never stopped learning. He (and his assistants) always spent time with other managers to learn how they worked. He had his own philosophy but he was never afraid of taking new ideas from other sources if it helped him become a better manager. He also learnt from people outside the game in terms of managing the other elements of leadership

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    That's brutal stuff Gray77 but still a very honest and respectful post

    Playing and coaching are two completely different disciplines. Cunningham might know everything about rugby but a competent coach needs to know a lot more I'm afraid

    From football Alex Ferguson, arguably the greatest manager we've seen in the game, never stopped learning. He (and his assistants) always spent time with other managers to learn how they worked. He had his own philosophy but he was never afraid of taking new ideas from other sources if it helped him become a better manager. He also learnt from people outside the game in terms of managing the other elements of leadership
    Cunningham is reminding me of Roy Keane as a manager. Great player, but once he realised that those he was managing weren't as good as him he didn't have the skills, patience or personality to make them better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Cunningham is reminding me of Roy Keane as a manager. Great player, but once he realised that those he was managing weren't as good as him he didn't have the skills, patience or personality to make them better.
    Totally agree the whole sad situation is summed up in this one sentence.

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