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Thread: Travis Burns is going on loan to Leigh

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I've heard that since Mike Ford got the can at Bath Kyle Eastmond is now out of favour and unsettled. A combo of Fages at 7 and Eastmond at 6 would be pretty electric. Perhaps not the best in terms of kicking game, though. I'm sure it would take a marquee salary to get Eastmond back in any case.
    I can't see any situation where EM would welcome back Eastmond

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    How do you know Walsh is leaving SS?

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    I think the statistics back up Luke Walsh's contribution to us. His short kicking game is great and the accuracy of his short kicks are something we've relied heavily upon at times this season with the issues we've had on the fringes. He organises the side really well and makes sure we hit the right points on the park to play on the back of. We've had McDonnell and Owens at 1 for much of the year who don't really have the footwork to isolate defenders regularly and find a pass so Walsh has had that extra pressure on him to find a play at the right time. The only criticism I'd have of him is that he doesn't always take the ball to the like quite as often as he possibly should but the intricate parts of his game are of a high level IMO and I'm glad he's wearing our shirt.

    I know he's not playing tonight but it's pivotal that we keep Lomax, Walsh and Roby fit IMO. If you look at the tries we scored last week at Hull and at Castleford a few weeks ago as well with those guys on the park you can see a difference. Lomax can provide an option down the short side as well if the opposition are short on numbers as well as chiming in as a third ball player as well when we attack with shape and numbers with support around the ball. Lomax has the footwork that McDonnell doesn't have and his threat gives Walshy and Fages a bit more time to find the right play.

    I rate him highly tbh and I don't think he's done too bad a job at all this season with the 3/4's he's had out side him for much of the season.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    If he's that good then we can only conclude that there have been more than a few games during his stay that he just hasn't bothered in. Talented yes, consistently good? Not for me.
    Not sure I'd say he "hasn't bothered" in games. I think his injury majorly set him back, and he was frightened of contact for a long while. People forget how good he was prior to the injuries kicking in. He was nailed on MoS before the first one, in his first season for instance. I also think losing Lomax at 3rd receiver and a succession of outside back injuries have forced us to play conservative for a large part of his stay, almost nullifying Walsh's passing game and resulting in the constant drop offs we see. It's why his short kicking game is so crucial to us - when Lomax ain't there, we stay central all day and our biggest threat becomes Walsh's kicking. Without it, we'd have been royally knackered this season.

    Very talented, and when you look around the league at halves, you really wonder where his replacement is going to come from.

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    This hyperbole about Walsh is ridiculous. 'Extremely talented' or not, his actual contributions to the team are far below almost every other half back in the league. And for the reported wage he is on, they are frankly ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    No scrum half in Oz has been anywhere near rep honours for a long time, as Thurston is literally one of the greatest in history. That's hardly a slight on Walsh, plus there were much better halves than Walsh ahead of him in that context as well. You can't judge a player's ability based on how close he is to rep honours - it's ridiculous. Nearly every Aussie that comes here isn't close to rep honours ! What he was regarded as in Oz is a 7 who didn't take the line on often enough. I don't think that's held him back here, just his injury. Prior to his injury, he was fantastic. Since, he's still very good, especially in attack. Defensively, a typical half.....

    I can give you three facts about him, which you can dispute all you like as you won't like them, but facts they are:

    1. The year we signed him, he was voted joint 7th in the Dally M halves.
    2. He was in discussions with an NRL side, and Saints, to go home prior to his injury.
    3. He's going home at the end of this season to play in the NRL again.

    Away from this daft world that the resident redvee idiots partake in, Walsh was, and is, regarded as a perfectly serviceable NRL half back. On here, we think we can stick Blackbrook's 7 in there and he'll be just as good
    Why would i dispute what you said ?

    1)That is a true he was the 7th best half in Australia, Josh Hodson was leading the Dally M this year,wasn't rated that highly over here.

    2)He was trying to get more money (what is wrong with that?)

    3)i am sure he is,three years away from family and friends is probably enough for anybody.

    Prior to his injury he had some very good games and some very average games, I want our marquee player to turn up in the big games (Especially Wigan) he didn't,i want their supporters to be worried everytime he gets on the ball (they weren't) Tomkins ( I hate to say it)before he went to OZ had that X factor Walsh didn't. He was and is a very good goal kicker,very good at the kicking game,probably on a par with Marc Sneyd but on a lot more money

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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    This hyperbole about Walsh is ridiculous. 'Extremely talented' or not, his actual contributions to the team are far below almost every other half back in the league. And for the reported wage he is on, they are frankly ridiculous.
    And yet sits second for assists, hardly "far below almost every other halfback in the league". In fact, which other 7s would you actually want at Saints? Sandow and Gale are the only 2 that spring to mind.

  8. #108
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    The injury certainly affected him, as do our mundane tactics. But that doesn't change the fact that he hasn't performed for us on far too many occasions. If you are an NRL scout looking at him during his time here you'd have to have doubts about whether he can still cut it over there, whatever mitigation there might be.
    Perhaps. I'm not saying he's a great 7 at all, just that he's much better than we give him credit for. Look around the league at halves - they don't exactly get the pulse racing.

  9. #109
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    Some people need to understand the power of context. Putting Luke Walsh into a bad team doesn't make him a bad player. It's between him and Sandow as the best 7 in Super League

    Just because he plays to a no risk plan in our side it doesn't mean he is suddenly useless. Those few games we saw the best of him is how good he is if we bother to use him correctly

    Although a decent player the likes of Gale gets as much wrong as right, quite a few errors, passes to the crowd, kicks way into touch etc

    I can count the errors Walsh has make on one hand since he's been with us. He's been largely wasted as a creative force though

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Perhaps. I'm not saying he's a great 7 at all, just that he's much better than we give him credit for. Look around the league at halves - they don't exactly get the pulse racing.
    He's an extremely talented 7 and we were very lucky to get him in the first place.

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    Greg Eden singing for Cas??? Gutted another quality back we missed out on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Margaret View Post
    He's an extremely talented 7 and we were very lucky to get him in the first place.
    What is your problem at all ?

    You do realise you can be talented without being a great. I've seen umpteen great halves (halves I'd define as 7s or 6s in today's game with split fields) - Schofield, Edwards, Gregory, Long, Jones, Goulding, Thurston, Langer, Lockyer - these are what I consider 'great'. Walsh is good, and very talented, but in that kind of bracket he isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I think he's a bit LMS. All pontification without backing it up. For all the talk of how tough he is, he misses some terrible tackles which people seem to ignore because he growls around the pitch.
    I meant guts as in around his middles!
    From St. Helens to St. Helier but ALWAYS a Saint!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    What is your problem at all ?

    You do realise you can be talented without being a great. I've seen umpteen great halves (halves I'd define as 7s or 6s in today's game with split fields) - Schofield, Edwards, Gregory, Long, Jones, Goulding, Thurston, Langer, Lockyer - these are what I consider 'great'. Walsh is good, and very talented, but in that kind of bracket he isn't.
    I did that to check you out,i replied to your thread you ignored me,i gave you a chance to be obnoxious you took it,i was correct in my original decision to ignore you. obviously just want to cause conflict in your posts,.not for me I enjoy my rugby to much, I don't think Saints play in a shit competition,have to go now Telford to Chester to St Helens is a long way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Margaret View Post
    I did that to check you out,i replied to your thread you ignored me,i gave you a chance to be obnoxious you took it,i was correct in my original decision to ignore you. obviously just want to cause conflict in your posts,.not for me I enjoy my rugby to much, I don't think Saints play in a shit competition,have to go now Telford to Chester to St Helens is a long way.

    Why do you bother.

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    I've got to admit.I for one wouldn't lose sleep if or when walsh goes back to the nrl.just my opinion but I think ss is being very kind to walsh.not saying I'm right or ss is wrong but I've never understood what all the fuss is about with walsh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Why do you bother.
    My thoughts exactly.

    One thing is for sure, with Burns on the way out and Walsh going, a sizeable part of our cap is going to go on at least one half. It'll be interesting to see how we go about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Why do you bother.
    Sorry you are right,i apologise I should know better, (not to you SS you are obviously the REDVEE wum),i am not sure why but when i talk about St Helens all my logic goes out of the window.I just hate it when people say how crap our competition is etc,it's the highlight of my week going to the game.I just love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    And yet sits second for assists, hardly "far below almost every other halfback in the league". In fact, which other 7s would you actually want at Saints? Sandow and Gale are the only 2 that spring to mind.
    I'd wager that the majority of his assists were early in the season when our sole gameplan was to get close to the opponents line, kick the ball through Walsh and hope our opponents made a mistake. Stats are meaningless anyway, IIRC there are about 3 or 4 Leeds players in the statistical team of the year. If you want to use stats though, look at Walsh's overall stats compared to Theo's (who has played 5 less games) and tell me who is the senior half back and who is contributing more to the team.

    http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...yer-info/10883
    http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...ayer-info/2984

    Again, in terms of what he actually contributes on the field I don't think I'd take Walsh ahead of any of the other starting halfbacks in the league, apart from maybe Dobson and Liam Finn. And considering that the latter would be lucky to be on 1/5th of Walsh's reported wage, it's a no-brainer really.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    I'd wager that the majority of his assists were early in the season when our sole gameplan was to get close to the opponents line, kick the ball through Walsh and hope our opponents made a mistake. Stats are meaningless anyway, IIRC there are about 3 or 4 Leeds players in the statistical team of the year. If you want to use stats though, look at Walsh's overall stats compared to Theo's (who has played 5 less games) and tell me who is the senior half back and who is contributing more to the team.

    Again, in terms of what he actually contributes on the field I don't think I'd take Walsh ahead of any of the other starting halfbacks in the league, apart from maybe Dobson and Liam Finn. And considering that the latter would be lucky to be on 1/5th of Walsh's reported wage, it's a no-brainer really.
    No, no they werent all at the start of the year. You can see them here: http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...ayer-info/2984

    You can see Theos stats here: http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...yer-info/10883

    Theyre on about par, to be honest, considering the difference in game time.

    Matty Smith? Really? Either your being melodramatic to play down Walshs contribution, or completely ignorant to what Walsh does for us. Sneyd, Myler and Smith all fail to produce what Walsh does with better players running lines around them.

    As for a salary, I could post that hes "done a radlinski" and playing for free this year - its probably about as accurate as any other rumour about his salary.

  21. #121
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    I like Walsh but there are a few problems with his game and I don't know if they are his fault or he is instructed to do certain things for example only kicking the ball 10 yards on penalties.....hardly worth having the penalty,secondly when we have a penalty why does he persist in stopping for a brew and a chat before taking the penalty allowing the opponents to get the defence set.Just absolutely brain dead stuff for me.
    He had a set back with the injury but his game has noticeably improved with a proper 6 alongside him in Theo but he still does too many drop offs which must be under instruction from the coach.Playing off the cuff is by far the best part of his game and I would like to see more.
    He is not a great but he is very accomplished.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    I wonder if it's written into Burns's contract that he can't play against us in the Middle 8s?? ��
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    I do think his injury has affected him mentally, not the same as when he burst on the scene at warrington on his debut. I hate to have a go at my own players/team but he is an absolute turnstile in defence it simply has to improve together with a couple of others or we will always fall short. Good news is tackling is easier to coach than catching/passing which he is obviously talented in. Wembley may derail some of our other top four contenders but that would simply be papering over the cracks. Let's hope he and some others bend their backs tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    No, no they werent all at the start of the year. You can see them here: http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...ayer-info/2984

    You can see Theos stats here: http://www.rugby-league.com/superlea...yer-info/10883

    Theyre on about par, to be honest, considering the difference in game time.

    Matty Smith? Really? Either your being melodramatic to play down Walshs contribution, or completely ignorant to what Walsh does for us. Sneyd, Myler and Smith all fail to produce what Walsh does with better players running lines around them.
    In what way? Do you think our attack is better and more organized than Hull, Catalan or Wigan, or that Walsh individually is more of an attacking threat than those players? Do you think he offers more leadership and defensive stability? Legitimately curious to see what you think he's doing for us that justifies his status.

    Also the stats are on par, really? Theo has played 5 less games than Walsh and has three times as many tries, over twice as many tackle busts, more clean breaks, over 200 more meters gained, almost 100 more tackles, 10 less missed tackles and a similar ratio of try assists per match (Walsh has 17 assists in 16 apps, Fages has 12 in 12). Not sure on what planet they are 'on par', especially considering Walsh is supposed to be the NRL superstar and Theo a project who isn't ready. These are either outstanding stats for Theo or damning stats for Walsh, whichever way you want to look at it.

  25. #125
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    The reality is, pound for pound what he's brought to the club he is not a good piece of business. End of.

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