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Thread: Cunningham response to critics

  1. #126
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    Ok get you now and I agree, they don't seem athletic at the moment

    I'm not sure if I ran 6 marathons on consecutive days that I'd get a PB if I did another on the 7th day

    You can't work hard constantly, recovery is just as important

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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    I said at the start of the season that the videos of them running through mud and diving into cold ponds etc was a waste of time, and IIRC I was vilified for saying that. But it's no surprise that the team seems unable to cope and gets run off the pitch whenever we play in good conditions and a dry track. I don't even know who our conditioner is but the fact is that that type of 'tough' training is usually employed by people who can't get legitimate athletic gains in the players. We have a team full of sluggish bodybuilders who look great, but that's not what it's about.
    Not by me. Pure form over substance. Looks great in the clubs promotional videos yet the reality is it counts for little.

    In fact its beyond passe. This type of shit was being done to death 20 years ago.

    Yet it sums St. Helens up perfectly. No chance of a first team gig unless you look like Nik Naylor and can throw a heavy log 20 years. Doesnt matter the NRL has shifted emphasis to athleticism and speed as well as strength in the backline, our lot are expected o 'bulk up' as if that makes you a world beater.

  3. #128
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    http://www.redvee.net/forums/showthr...eason-Training

    Take a look back at the thread from Dec.

  4. #129
    In The South Stand Greengrass's Avatar
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    Whichever thread you read it gets more and more depressing, I am going to take the lead of the coaching staff and forget Rugby League for a while and concentrate on the daily grind of monotonous work.
    On the Back foot looking for the front one.

  5. #130
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Not by me. Pure form over substance. Looks great in the clubs promotional videos yet the reality is it counts for little.

    In fact its beyond passe. This type of shit was being done to death 20 years ago.

    Yet it sums St. Helens up perfectly. No chance of a first team gig unless you look like Nik Naylor and can throw a heavy log 20 years. Doesnt matter the NRL has shifted emphasis to athleticism and speed as well as strength in the backline, our lot are expected o 'bulk up' as if that makes you a world beater.
    Good points, but has anybody stopped to think about what percentage of the entire pre season program was spent on these 'away days'. 3 or 4 days out of 3 or 4 months maybe?

  6. #131
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    We had the discussion about athleticism just after the WCC game.We never learn.
    Learned comment from The Don

  7. #132
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    The one thing that gives me hope is what has happened with Radford at Hull FC. He looked utterly out of his depth, more so than Cunningham. But now he's coaching the table toppers.

    Part of that will be down to recruitment and part to Radford learning lessons. KC needs to show he can adapt and learn in the same way and EM needs to ensure that our recruitment improves dramatically. If either is missing, things won't improve much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Good points, but has anybody stopped to think about what percentage of the entire pre season program was spent on these 'away days'. 3 or 4 days out of 3 or 4 months maybe?

    That's entirely true of course, but for me at the time I worried that Saints thought that this was the off season stuff that people would be most thrilled to see and read about.

    I know lads running up hills is more appealing to the cameras than players on the training paddock, but this whole attitude of "look how tough we are, look how big we are" annoyed me, because our lack of toughness wasn't the issue last year, it was lack of technical ability and tactics.

    It looked like the old Ron Manager tactic of doing an extra ten laps and then telling his lads to get stuck in. It doesn't work, and (I feared it at the time but didn't know how it'd pan out) it hasn't worked in the first 15 games.

    You are right that the away day stuff probably only took up a few days from a whole pre season. So what the hell were they doing for the other 90% of the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    You are right that the away day stuff probably only took up a few days from a whole pre season. So what the hell were they doing for the other 90% of the time?
    Practicing drop-offs, obviously.
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    It was all about running into defenders to win the grind!! I can guarantee that if you run at gaps you will make more ground.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    It was all about running into defenders to win the grind!! I can guarantee that if you run at gaps you will make more ground.
    That's probably why we only kick penalties 10m - so we get more opportunities to grind and eventually win the energy battle

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    Interesting debate on that other thread about players physicality and the emphasis on bulking up. One of the best centres ever to wear the redvee, Paul Newlove, never saw the inside of a gym until he came to saints. He hated weight training and did the bare minimum. His abilities as a centre weren't coached into him by a set of dumbells

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chief View Post
    Interesting debate on that other thread about players physicality and the emphasis on bulking up. One of the best centres ever to wear the redvee, Paul Newlove, never saw the inside of a gym until he came to saints. He hated weight training and did the bare minimum. His abilities as a centre weren't coached into him by a set of dumbells
    Look at Turner compared to when he played at Hull. He lost his pace because he got too big, so he was then asked to play 6, which isn't his game, and now he's sat in the stands. What a waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post

    Look at Turner compared to when he played at Hull. He lost his pace because he got too big, so he was then asked to play 6, which isn't his game, and now he's sat in the stands. What a waste.
    We've let Turner down badly as a club IMO. Criminal waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Look at Turner compared to when he played at Hull. He lost his pace because he got too big, so he was then asked to play 6, which isn't his game, and now he's sat in the stands. What a waste.
    I know it is often jokingly cited as the only reason we signed him, but in his last game for Hull at Langtree Park he scored a blistering length of the field try. Even in the unlikely scenario that we could create the space for him to do that now, I doubt he would cover 20m before getting caught.
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Practicing drop-offs, obviously.
    One things for sure, Walsh could walk into a job as a FedEx driver tomorrow with no interview necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    We've let Turner down badly as a club IMO. Criminal waste.
    Without knowing his S&C programme and his eating habits its not easy to just blame the club. S&C programmes don't tend to give you the backside of three busses side by side

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Received the email from the club this morning trying to sell tickets for Wire. Had a quick look on the tickets page, there are hundreds of empty seats in the North Stand at this stage. Who would have thought back in the final years at KR when 17,000 sell outs against Wire became the norm that we'd struggle to probably top 12-13,000 for a Friday night game with Wire in our new stadium? And who would have thought back in our first season at LP when the West Terrace was sold out for the entire season before a ball was kicked that 4 years later you'd be able to easily buy a WT ticket for Wire a week before the game? The club must notice these things, and realise that we are not 'moving in the right direction'.
    Season Ticket Holders are even not going to bother to go to the wire home match. That might change though if we can beat hull on Saturday. I'm hoping they'll be feeling a bit cocky and unbeatable and then that's when we can sneak a victory.

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    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    That isn't the first time this season when we have been unable to turn pressure in the first 20 minutes into points. Also, if he knows what needs to be done, why has it taken so long? If we lose again on Saturday, and I desperately hope we won't, what will he say then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maghullsaint View Post
    That isn't the first time this season when we have been unable to turn pressure in the first 20 minutes into points. Also, if he knows what needs to be done, why has it taken so long? If we lose again on Saturday, and I desperately hope we won't, what will he say then?
    Simple answer is 'a copy and paste version of this week'

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    Got A Season Ticket scrogger's Avatar
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    In fairness that's the first time he's admitted having to look at himself and take some responsibility. Maybe he is learning. I'm still worried whether he does know what to do to change things around though.


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    Not giving teams a 12 point lead would be a good start.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    "We had a few people out there who believed they were working harder than they actually were, so we have had a few home truths"

    What does that even mean?

  25. #150
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    As much as I admired in spades Kieron Cunningham as a player I didn't agree with his appointment at the time and thought the club should have gone for Darryl Powell or possibly David Fairlegh or other coach. The reason was that was because I though he was far too inexperienced and the club should have strongly advised he got more coaching experience in a different club away from Saints. I also thought that he could also be set up to fail given his brilliance as a player with a statue outside of the ground; matching people expectations and ambitions for success would be a massive challenge.

    There is nobody would want him to succeed and prove me wrong than me, but up to know I'm sticking with me original judgement that the club got it wrong.....again.

    The situation is different from when Murphy was coaching Saints. For one, there isn't the social media intrusion and the pressures are greater in that every match is like the AGM of a company with the board of directors sitting standing all around each offering a public opinion all the time after every game. Murphy coached in a era at Saints were one team dominated and had been coach at Warrington, Salford, Leigh, Wigan and Leigh a further time before he arrived at Saints in the mid 80's. He also had some success as a coach too winning the League with Leigh and winning some of the minor cup competitions with both Leigh and Wigan. He certainly isn't the worst coach to coach Saints by a long chalk either despite inconsistent results at the time.

    Kieron Cunningham has a massive challenge on his hands to change things round and start to meet the expectations of fans with a more attractive style of rugby, a squad that look unfit and one that has a brittle defence with more holes in it than a swiss cheese.

    The previous successes of the club during the last twenty years have raised the bar of fans expectations and rightly so. Either he can change things for the better, or the club need to recognise their mistake and give him further assistance or decide that they need to make the necessary change.

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