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Thread: Cunningham response to critics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I think the "uber" taxi app is a bit too metropolitan! I've only just realised what you were on about.
    Do you know what, I actually thought that when typing it. I wondered if it would come across a bit 'London' but I went with it. Not a big fan of uber anyway to be honest, don't use them, but thought I'd get brownie points for being down with the kids. I failed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldham_Saint View Post
    I can't comment on the social media thing as I'm neither on twitter or facebook, so the first I heard of it was reading it in the article.

    The worst thing aside from the routine contradictions is that most on here remember the sides he was an integral part of and the style they played. Whenever we come close to that, he always turns it round by telling us it was good for a while, but we need to get back to the grinding out. What did he think of the Saints sides he played in? Were they quality sides to be a part of or did he feel too uncomfortable in them constantly entertaining and going forward?

    Too many times he's stated what was required to change things then done the exact opposite, or just come out and puzzled everyone with his view of what he's seen. Don't forget how many times we've been 'phenomenal' at the start of the season or in other games according to him. The way he singles out individuals will have awider effect on the team, as players will not only feel for those singled out but wonder if they'll get the same treatment in the future.

    No-one wanted him to fail, but last year was an allowance of sorts given the statues he has at the club, but I think many were at least hoping for us to genuinely kick on from that and too many times this season we have seen the polar opposite of that. For the dire performances and confusing team selections to be compounded by an near stubborn refusal or inability to see what everyone else has seen brings us to the sad state of affairs we now find ourselves in.
    I'm not on Twitter or Facebook either and so don't fully understand what's being said.

    I wholeheartedly agree that it wrong to single out (younger) individuals. I hope Wellington plays again soon and that someone actually passes the ball to him. If Greenwood isn't in Saturday's team I'll despair.

    I don't agree with people showing a lack of respect to a great player but I'd like KC to show a bit of respect to others. To be fair he showed a lack of respect to Baloo and Huddersfield by suggesting they were lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Do you know what, I actually thought that when typing it. I wondered if it would come across a bit 'London' but I went with it. Not a big fan of uber anyway to be honest, don't use them, but thought I'd get brownie points for being down with the kids. I failed!
    I knew what you meant, some of us do leave St Helens occasionally you know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by warringtonsaint View Post
    We were beyond blessed to have Cunningham the player, we deserve far better as a whole club than Cunningham the coach.
    Absolutely 100% correct. This should never have happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    It means we're eager to please our masters whilst sitting in a taxi or being German.
    Who are we trying to please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I hope KC can prove the doubters wrong.The problem is a lot of the doubters have been watching the game a lot longer than KC.
    That's the problem, he needed to be proving them wrong a while back. Hope left earlier in the piece.

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    another cracker from Cunningham


    " "It was unjustified for them. So I'm glad they got the result."

    The guy is on cloud cuckoo land


    http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...-as-lucky.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I'm not on Twitter or Facebook either and so don't fully understand what's being said.

    I wholeheartedly agree that it wrong to single out (younger) individuals. I hope Wellington plays again soon and that someone actually passes the ball to him. If Greenwood isn't in Saturday's team I'll despair.

    I don't agree with people showing a lack of respect to a great player but I'd like KC to show a bit of respect to others. To be fair he showed a lack of respect to Baloo and Huddersfield by suggesting they were lucky.
    Add me to the list of not on there. Don't know what's been said, but likely less constructive and more over the top. Social media is vile.

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    I'm really interested in the whole idea of 'respect' in relation to KC. Alot of people are saying we need to respect him because he was a great player for us, but does that mean we need to respect him as anything other than a great player? None of us really respect him because he's a great lad, because the vast majority don't know him and have no idea if he is or not. We respect him simply because he's from our town and played to a really high level for our club. So, should that extend to other things he does? If they do one of these reunion things on the pitch at LP in twenty years time were they honour club legends, I would expect KC to be at the front of the line, standing ovation from everyone, because of what he did as a player. Whatever he does as a coach is another thing for me, and his playing career is a different thing altogether.

    If someone comes in as coach who has no background with the club we don't care about their playing career, and we judge them solely on their coaching ability. But when the coach played for us we merge the two together, and it's illogical really. I love KC as a rugby league player who achieved the dream of all St Helens lads by playing for Saints and becoming a playing legend. But I don't like him as a coach, and I have no opinion of him as a man because I don't know him. His playing career will remain untarnished, as will his reputation as a club legend regardless of what happens as a coach IMO. But his playing career is well gone, and the things he did that I loved are in the past. I will always love those moments, and always respect him as a player, and he will always be a club legend for me. But for me that is entirely different to what he is now as a coach. I'm not judging him as a man, I'm judging him as a coach, nothing more, and as a coach he is not cutting it.

    Am I wrong if I choose not to look at his playing career when looking at his coaching abilities? And if I respected him as a player but not as a coach, is that wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    another cracker from Cunningham


    " "It was unjustified for them. So I'm glad they got the result."

    The guy is on cloud cuckoo land


    http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...-as-lucky.html
    Hence why nothing will change. He is delusional.
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
    Keiron Cunningham, 2016

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    The Reporter opinion piece has a different view. It explicitly states that because of his exploits as a player he should be given "much more time" than other coaches

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    Having a brief gander at the reporters website the word that springs to mind in sycophant

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    another cracker from Cunningham


    " "It was unjustified for them. So I'm glad they got the result."

    The guy is on cloud cuckoo land


    http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...-as-lucky.html
    Not much entertainment on the field but hilarious in the press.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    The Reporter opinion piece has a different view. It explicitly states that because of his exploits as a player he should be given "much more time" than other coaches
    As I said earlier, I just don't agree with that premise. His playing career should mean he is given all the respect in the world as a club legend, but it shouldn't give him any more time than anybody else as a coach. The two things are completely different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'm really interested in the whole idea of 'respect' in relation to KC. Alot of people are saying we need to respect him because he was a great player for us, but does that mean we need to respect him as anything other than a great player? None of us really respect him because he's a great lad, because the vast majority don't know him and have no idea if he is or not. We respect him simply because he's from our town and played to a really high level for our club. So, should that extend to other things he does? If they do one of these reunion things on the pitch at LP in twenty years time were they honour club legends, I would expect KC to be at the front of the line, standing ovation from everyone, because of what he did as a player. Whatever he does as a coach is another thing for me, and his playing career is a different thing altogether.

    If someone comes in as coach who has no background with the club we don't care about their playing career, and we judge them solely on their coaching ability. But when the coach played for us we merge the two together, and it's illogical really. I love KC as a rugby league player who achieved the dream of all St Helens lads by playing for Saints and becoming a playing legend. But I don't like him as a coach, and I have no opinion of him as a man because I don't know him. His playing career will remain untarnished, as will his reputation as a club legend regardless of what happens as a coach IMO. But his playing career is well gone, and the things he did that I loved are in the past. I will always love those moments, and always respect him as a player, and he will always be a club legend for me. But for me that is entirely different to what he is now as a coach. I'm not judging him as a man, I'm judging him as a coach, nothing more, and as a coach he is not cutting it.

    Am I wrong if I choose not to look at his playing career when looking at his coaching abilities? And if I respected him as a player but not as a coach, is that wrong?
    One of my sons is named after Keiron, that's what I thought of him as a player. However as a coach I am leading the charge for his dismissal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'm really interested in the whole idea of 'respect' in relation to KC. Alot of people are saying we need to respect him because he was a great player for us, but does that mean we need to respect him as anything other than a great player? None of us really respect him because he's a great lad, because the vast majority don't know him and have no idea if he is or not. We respect him simply because he's from our town and played to a really high level for our club. So, should that extend to other things he does? If they do one of these reunion things on the pitch at LP in twenty years time were they honour club legends, I would expect KC to be at the front of the line, standing ovation from everyone, because of what he did as a player. Whatever he does as a coach is another thing for me, and his playing career is a different thing altogether.

    If someone comes in as coach who has no background with the club we don't care about their playing career, and we judge them solely on their coaching ability. But when the coach played for us we merge the two together, and it's illogical really. I love KC as a rugby league player who achieved the dream of all St Helens lads by playing for Saints and becoming a playing legend. But I don't like him as a coach, and I have no opinion of him as a man because I don't know him. His playing career will remain untarnished, as will his reputation as a club legend regardless of what happens as a coach IMO. But his playing career is well gone, and the things he did that I loved are in the past. I will always love those moments, and always respect him as a player, and he will always be a club legend for me. But for me that is entirely different to what he is now as a coach. I'm not judging him as a man, I'm judging him as a coach, nothing more, and as a coach he is not cutting it.

    Am I wrong if I choose not to look at his playing career when looking at his coaching abilities? And if I respected him as a player but not as a coach, is that wrong?
    NO.

    When Alex Murphy was coach at Saints,wasn't that the same sort of situation,now please you will have to accept my ignorance of the time era,all i know is through a bit of research that Murphy was a coach from 1986 till 1990,went to the cup final twice losing to Halifax and them others,that is all i know,but what i am trying to put across probably not very well,was a club legend, (in some peoples book our best player ever), returned to coach the team( i take it was then sacked)is that something like our current situation,or is it nothing like. I am genuinely interested.

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    True but it's clear he is going to get that time. If an aussie had us playing this badly they would literally be run out of town or even be flogged in Victoria Square in front the baying public (before being run out of town)

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    It's really sad that all the respect we all have for Cunningham is being washed away. He is a favourite son of the town, not just rugby supporters. It would be horrible to think that in years to come one of the things he's remembered as is a failed coach. I think Rush and Eamon need to do something quickly otherwise things could get really out of hand. Is that something to sack him? Bring in a Director of rugby-type? Give him media training and make sure he doesn't antagonise people even more? I really don't know. I fear anything might be too little too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Am I wrong if I choose not to look at his playing career when looking at his coaching abilities? And if I respected him as a player but not as a coach, is that wrong?
    No you are not - respect needs to be earned and simply, coaching is not playing. You are absolutely right to respect him for his playing career and absolutely right to not respect him for his coaching career; he hasn't earned that right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Margaret View Post
    NO.

    When Alex Murphy was coach at Saints,wasn't that the same sort of situation,now please you will have to accept my ignorance of the time era,all i know is through a bit of research that Murphy was a coach from 1986 till 1990,went to the cup final twice losing to Halifax and them others,that is all i know,but what i am trying to put across probably not very well,was a club legend, (in some peoples book our best player ever), returned to coach the team( i take it was then sacked)is that something like our current situation,or is it nothing like. I am genuinely interested.
    The difference of course was the time span between his playing career and coaching career at Saints. Between playing and coaching at Saints he had played for Leigh and Wire, and then coached at loads of places including Wigan. Compare that with KC, a one-club man who went from playing for us straight into the coaching set-up. So, everyone remembers him as a player and has fond memories of him, whereas with Murphy people my age at that time only had tales and stories of Murphy the player because he was way before our time. So, the stick Murphy got (especially after the 0-27 1989 Cup Final debacle) was mainly from people who didn't really remember him as a player, so for me it is different to what is happening now. Most of us remember KC as a player and yet still feel it warranted to give him stick, which makes it worse than the situation with Murphy IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrass View Post
    How are scrap metal prices at the moment?
    I assume you are making a reference to the removal of KC's statue? I think this is a poor comment, crass and puerile in the extreme. The statue is there in recognition of his contribution to the club as a legendary player and a local lad too. It had nothing to do with his role as coach. For that reason his statue should remain as long as the club exists irrespective of what happens to him as coach.

    If your post was an attempt at humor it wasn't funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Margaret View Post
    NO.

    When Alex Murphy was coach at Saints,wasn't that the same sort of situation,now please you will have to accept my ignorance of the time era,all i know is through a bit of research that Murphy was a coach from 1986 till 1990,went to the cup final twice losing to Halifax and them others,that is all i know,but what i am trying to put across probably not very well,was a club legend, (in some peoples book our best player ever), returned to coach the team( i take it was then sacked)is that something like our current situation,or is it nothing like. I am genuinely interested.
    Alex Murphy, Kel Coslett, Billy Benyon were all great players for the club, but none were good managers. Alex certainly brought some enthusiasm to the job, but little else. The best managers we have had have all had minimal success as players, if any. Daniel Anderson, Millward, Nathan Brown were all good managers who had no particualrly great playing career. Filling our coaching staff with good ex players is hardly a recipe for success, as we are now finding out. We need good coaches at the club, regardless of their playing history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    another cracker from Cunningham


    " "It was unjustified for them. So I'm glad they got the result."

    The guy is on cloud cuckoo land


    http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...-as-lucky.html
    Christ almighty. That is poor. I have to keep telling myself, this was a man I looked up to as a kid growing up; a legend of the modern game to me, as he is currently persona non grata as a coach. One of the worst coaches we have had in my lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'm really interested in the whole idea of 'respect' in relation to KC. Alot of people are saying we need to respect him because he was a great player for us, but does that mean we need to respect him as anything other than a great player? None of us really respect him because he's a great lad, because the vast majority don't know him and have no idea if he is or not. We respect him simply because he's from our town and played to a really high level for our club. So, should that extend to other things he does? If they do one of these reunion things on the pitch at LP in twenty years time were they honour club legends, I would expect KC to be at the front of the line, standing ovation from everyone, because of what he did as a player. Whatever he does as a coach is another thing for me, and his playing career is a different thing altogether.

    If someone comes in as coach who has no background with the club we don't care about their playing career, and we judge them solely on their coaching ability. But when the coach played for us we merge the two together, and it's illogical really. I love KC as a rugby league player who achieved the dream of all St Helens lads by playing for Saints and becoming a playing legend. But I don't like him as a coach, and I have no opinion of him as a man because I don't know him. His playing career will remain untarnished, as will his reputation as a club legend regardless of what happens as a coach IMO. But his playing career is well gone, and the things he did that I loved are in the past. I will always love those moments, and always respect him as a player, and he will always be a club legend for me. But for me that is entirely different to what he is now as a coach. I'm not judging him as a man, I'm judging him as a coach, nothing more, and as a coach he is not cutting it.

    Am I wrong if I choose not to look at his playing career when looking at his coaching abilities? And if I respected him as a player but not as a coach, is that wrong?
    You're exactly right.

    The thing is, I'm pretty sure KC himself made comments early in his tenure about wanting to stand on his own merits as a coach.

    Nowadays, we've got increasingly regular interviews with him channelling his history as a player, which is a sign of desperation in itself.

    I've said it elsewhere- it's nothing personal. I take no pleasure from any of this. I'd love him to turn the corner and lead us to success. We all want the same things. It's just not working and everyone can see it (including, dare I say, Keiron himself.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    another cracker from Cunningham


    " "It was unjustified for them. So I'm glad they got the result."

    The guy is on cloud cuckoo land


    http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...-as-lucky.html
    Having read this longer version of his comments, I think I was wrong in criticising him for showing a lack of respect to Baloo and Huddersfield. His points are not well expressed but I now think that, at least in part, his remarks about luck followed on from a bit of friendly, pre-match banter with Anderson. I appreciate that my interpretation involves reading between the lines.

    However, he says something like in Rugby League you make your own luck. If he believes that he must realise that Huddersfield, give or take the odd forward pass not being spotted by officials, made their own luck and deserved the win.

    The garbled comments appear to be an attempt to say that Huddersfield don't deserve to be second to bottom but, again, if you make your own luck, isn't that where they should be? If you over analyse the interview, it doesn't make sense but he isn't a good at interviews. Someone needs to teach him to come out with the same old phrases that Wane has clearly been trained to say week in week out.

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