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Thread: Cunningham response to critics

  1. #26
    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but nothing he says there fills me with anything other than dread.

    I said very early on in his tenure that I could see the very qualities that made him such an outstanding player might impact adversely on his competence as a coach.

    Someone mentioned he deserves respect; as a player, he warranted it in spades and received it. As a coach he's earned no one's respect, in my opinion just the opposite.

    Obviously we would all have loved a playing legend to be a coaching success too. However I think he has shown himself to be - currently at least - incompetent on every single aspect of the job, every single one.

    I have stuck by Saints through thick and thin for many many years (and for those too young to remember there were lots of thins as well as thicks) but never have I felt so patronised by the club or seen such a turgid, boring brand if rugby, even under some of our recent incumbents such as Royce. I'm no tub thumper, no moron who wantonly criticises the club, no idiot as far as knowing what decent rugby looks like.

    Cunningham just does not appear willing or able to change or learn.

    Perhaps the club may wake up before its too late, I really hope they do.

    The buck stops with Cunningham in the main, whilst I also appreciate the players do carry some responsibility. Lack of motivation however all brings us back to the same root cause.......
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

  2. #27
    In The South Stand Tallahassee's Avatar
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    Another stick to beat him with is he claimed the recruitment start and stops with him....Peyroux,Tasi,Burns,Vea,Owens are not very good at all. Fages was Longs project.

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  3. #28
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    I don't like to say this but the current situation with Cunningham and the way the club is going reminds me of Paul Cullens last season in charge of Wire. I remember being invited to the HJ stadium to watch Wire vs Castleford which turned out to be his last game in charge. By this stage the fans who worshipped him as a player and club captain turned on him in such a way that I can still remember the awful anti Cullen atmosphere that day. I worked in Warrington and most of my work colleagues who I attended the game with had all lost faith in both Cullen and the club. It was truly shocking to witness such hatred towards a club legend. I just hope for both Cunningham and the club that we don't come to a similar situation.
    Sadly, I think we are only 2-3 losses away from complete and open resentment. It's getting there

  4. #29
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallahassee View Post
    Another stick to beat him with is he claimed the recruitment start and stops with him....Peyroux,Tasi,Burns,Vea,Owens are not very good at all. Fages was Longs project.

    Sent from my P023 using Tapatalk
    You've just managed to criticise Cunningham because "recruitment starts and stops with him" before ignoring your very premise to say the one success story in recruitment isn't Cunningham's to take credit for.

    It can only be one or the other.

  5. #30
    In The South Stand Tallahassee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    You've just managed to criticise Cunningham because "recruitment starts and stops with him" before ignoring your very premise to say the one success story in recruitment isn't Cunningham's to take credit for.

    It can only be one or the other.
    Sorry my tablet crashed before I could correct it.

  6. #31
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    You're one of the few pro-Cunningham posters left posting SS

    What is it that is driving your continued support? Do you see a long term plan there and think things will improve?

    I've not asked for him to be sacked either because despite everything he's one of us, however I am definitely close to breaking point!

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    In all honesty whilst I do know certain players past and present I don't know Kez at all and have never spoken to him. What I do think is circumstances worked against the club on the playing front. Nathan Brown had put some good foundations in place and some good youngsters emerged such as Percy and Thompson and I don't think anyone wanted Brown to go early.

    A decision then had to be made and that was Kez, we will never know whether more experienced help was offered or not. However he brought Longy in which was a risk in itself and kept Loeusi on as his other assistant three pretty inexperienced guys to run a very big rugby league club and I do think that was the first mistake, at that point he should have been made to have a mentor in place off the training and playing field.

    The decisions which are making decent fans sick to the stomach are some of the selections of players and we know who they are that have been imported into this great club who are frankly dreadful and cringe worthy. You work hard to pay for your home and away support for the club and I personally feel Kez is treating the support with aa degree of contempt. We are at Hull this Saturday and I feel it wont be a great following going over the hill, but more important than the two points is the fact it is the Steve Prescott cup, anyone who has had a consultant tell them they have that six letter word will understand just exactly how brave and strong minded to the extreme that man was on behalf of others, and for me the game will be important but far more so is acknowledging how the Hull fans have joined in at every level supporting that fantastic man. I personally do hope Kez gets it right and he deserves time but at present he is making quite a poor fist of leading a great club and great supporters who do care and yes at times it shows in tub thumping ways. We want to be entertained and be the team to beat, that is what a world leading club strives for at all times.

  8. #33
    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    You're one of the few pro-Cunningham posters left posting SS

    What is it that is driving your continued support? Do you see a long term plan there and think things will improve?

    I've not asked for him to be sacked either because despite everything he's one of us, however I am definitely close to breaking point!
    He is one of ours, that's true. That's why I doubt anyone is comfortable with feeling as we do about him.

    However, he is also a highly paid professional in a very tough environment, where his lack of competency could have very serious repercussions on the future of the club, across numerous issues.
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

  9. #34
    In The South Stand The.Reverand's Avatar
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    I just can't believe some still need convincing as to Cunninghams clear inability to coach us to an improvement in performances. This writing was on the wall pre season. Many of us said he should not be getting an appointment like this and as a club we deserved someone proven. Can't see a single one f those people who will have changed their minds.

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  10. #35
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    So KC is going to stick to his guns.....

    Owens, Dawson, Peyroux and Richards.. Cant wait for the next few games...

  11. #36
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    Criticism doesn't bother him and yet three paragraphs later he says he says criticism hits him hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Sadly, I think we are only 2-3 losses away from complete and open resentment. It's getting there
    I agree!

    I remember the way wire fans turned on Cullen

    All this resentment toward Cunningham doesn't sit well with me I was hoping the dream ticket of him and long would bring us success
    Unfortunately it's going sour KC is clearly not up to the job
    If we get hammered at hull I really fear the atmosphere v wire next week could be toxic especially if they also hand us a good hiding

    Imagine going in at half time v wire 20 or 30 points down the crowd will totally turn on Cunningham and the club and nobody wants a legend to suffer that!

    I don't know I just feel Eamon needs to act before the wire game especially if we lose badly at hull.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Criticism doesn't bother him and yet three paragraphs later he says he says criticism hits him hard.
    God, I noticed this too. He is such a walking contradiction.

    The experiment has failed. It's over.

    The club are doing him no favours at all by hanging him out to dry like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    He's snookered either way. If he keeps quiet people will moan, if he faces the camera people will pick it to pieces and moan, if he avoids the camera he's gutless and people moan, if he replies to a hashtag in the press people will moan. If we were winning he wouldn't be under so much pressure and everything is being picked up on.

    The only thing that will save him now is results. It'll be interesting to see the game Saturday, if the lads turn up for him then they want to play for him. If we get tonked, maybe the lads just don't care if he's shown the door.
    I'm not one of these people who puts too much stock into what a coach says TBH, their job is to to coach the team not talk to the press. But it's a little different with KC because he constantly insults the fans intelligence by saying things that are patently untrue. Owens is a phenomenal fullback, Fages is a project who isn't ready, Peyroux is a fans favourite, claiming we played well after repeatedly being tonked etc. He seems to have no concept of reality and even if he's just bluffing and trying to protect people, he clearly has no idea to handle the media. Which, to the fans at least, gives the impression that he has no idea how to handle the players. And it's not just a case of him being awkward or uncharismatic in front of camera as some coaches are, because he literally comes across as clueless. I mentioned Wayne Bennett earlier, he's terrible with the media but when listening to him you at least get the impression that he knows what he's talking about, and his results speak for themselves. KC is the total opposite. His results and performances are constantly poor and most of the time he seems totally confused, constantly contradicts himself and seems to be living on a different planet to everyone else. It wouldn't be so bad if he described why the performance was poor or explained what we were trying to do and why it didn't work, but that isn't what happens, we just get an unending string of bizarre and frankly ridiculous comments. I've heard people questioning whether he's on drugs, obviously he isn't but it almost seems that way at times with how detached from reality he appears to be. There's just nothing to give any indication at all that he's good at this job.

  15. #40
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    Who told a 15-year-old Keiron Cunningham that he wasn't going to make it as a player? He was in the team at 16! The worrying thing about that interview for me was his comment about sticking to his guns. I hope he doesn't mean tactically. Part of improving at anything is recognising when you have got it wrong and making the adjustment.
    Believe it or not it happened, don't forget Hanley tried to get rid of him also!

    Back to the article, as Don has said taking a stance like this isn't helping, he would have been far better off acknowledging the performances haven't been good enough and asking the fans to stick with it.

  16. #41
    In The South Stand Greengrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    God, I noticed this too. He is such a walking contradiction.

    The experiment has failed. It's over.

    The club are doing him no favours at all by hanging him out to dry like this.
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  17. #42
    Learning All The Songs RV12's Avatar
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    I don't think there's too much to get wound up about with these comments. He clearly cares for the club and will be hurting as much as anyone about some of our performances. Whether he can turn it around is another matter, but I hope he does.

    What KC says doesn't hugely concern me (except his ludicrous comments from Sunday), as long as he can turn it around on the field

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    Duplicate post
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
    Keiron Cunningham, 2016

  19. #44
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    "Criticism doesn’t worry or matter to me"

    5 seconds later....

    "I take any kind of criticism personally and very hard"

    says a lot about the gibberish that KC spouts. The parallels with Cullen are more frightening by the day.
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
    Keiron Cunningham, 2016

  20. #45
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    I don't think there's too much to get wound up about with these comments. He clearly cares for the club and will be hurting as much as anyone about some of our performances. Whether he can turn it around is another matter, but I hope he does.

    What KC says doesn't hugely concern me (except his ludicrous comments from Sunday), as long as he can turn it around on the field
    Well he has basically said he has no intention of changing things, so not sure where you think this turnaround is coming from.
    When he was appointed I thought it was too soon, then when he brought Long in I started thinking this could be the dream ticket if they can pull it off but sadly!!!!!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    I'm not one of these people who puts too much stock into what a coach says TBH, their job is to to coach the team not talk to the press. But it's a little different with KC because he constantly insults the fans intelligence by saying things that are patently untrue. Owens is a phenomenal fullback, Fages is a project who isn't ready, Peyroux is a fans favourite, claiming we played well after repeatedly being tonked etc. He seems to have no concept of reality and even if he's just bluffing and trying to protect people, he clearly has no idea to handle the media. Which, to the fans at least, gives the impression that he has no idea how to handle the players. And it's not just a case of him being awkward or uncharismatic in front of camera as some coaches are, because he literally comes across as clueless. I mentioned Wayne Bennett earlier, he's terrible with the media but when listening to him you at least get the impression that he knows what he's talking about, and his results speak for themselves. KC is the total opposite. His results and performances are constantly poor and most of the time he seems totally confused, constantly contradicts himself and seems to be living on a different planet to everyone else. It wouldn't be so bad if he described why the performance was poor or explained what we were trying to do and why it didn't work, but that isn't what happens, we just get an unending string of bizarre and frankly ridiculous comments. I've heard people questioning whether he's on drugs, obviously he isn't but it almost seems that way at times with how detached from reality he appears to be. There's just nothing to give any indication at all that he's good at this job.
    Great reply and you can't really argue with that I suppose. I've been ignoring what he's been saying in the press and have been putting it down to him trying (badly) to protect the team. Take today's comments in the reporter


    “Criticism doesn’t worry or matter to me because I know which direction this club is heading."

    Then he says later on in the same article

    “Being a local lad, the club means a hell of a lot to me and I take any kind of criticism personally and very hard."

    It looks to me that second quote was what he thinks the fans want to hear.

  22. #47
    In The South Stand CHANNEL22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    A good coach wouldn't even respond publicly in this way. Imagine Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy, or even Shaun Wane coming out and saying that the fans all think he's crap but he wants to prove them wrong. We really are wasting our time with KC, we're just going to be lurching from one shambles to another until he finally leaves.

    When coaches come out with responses like this it usually means they know they are in a dark place.

    Its like the "vote of confidence"
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    Learning All The Songs The frenchman's Avatar
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    Just noticed everyone was already talking about his criticism comments sorry I hadn't read that far.

    Like I said I'm not taking any notice of him in the press, I think he's just saying what he thinks we want to hear or trying to protect the team. I don't think he's gonna come out and give his true opinion.

    If we change coach, I'd only want us to for the right person, for now I want him to at least see this year out.

  24. #49
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    “Criticism doesn’t worry or matter to me because I know which direction this club is heading"
    That direction is Down Keiron, our overall performances and results have got worse since you took over

    “I have just got to stick to my guns"
    The worst leaders are the ones who either can't see their own failings or are too stubborn & arrogant to make changes.
    He somehow thinks it weak to make drastic changes and admit his own mistakes, when the reality is it takes a far stronger man to accept when he's wrong

    “I will keep fighting to the bitter end "
    Pride comes before a fall Keiron. Its the club that's suffering now but ultimately its you who will fall if you don't change and your reputation as a club great will be tarnished forever

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    I'm not one of these people who puts too much stock into what a coach says TBH, their job is to to coach the team not talk to the press. But it's a little different with KC because he constantly insults the fans intelligence by saying things that are patently untrue. Owens is a phenomenal fullback, Fages is a project who isn't ready, Peyroux is a fans favourite, claiming we played well after repeatedly being tonked etc. He seems to have no concept of reality and even if he's just bluffing and trying to protect people, he clearly has no idea to handle the media. Which, to the fans at least, gives the impression that he has no idea how to handle the players. And it's not just a case of him being awkward or uncharismatic in front of camera as some coaches are, because he literally comes across as clueless. I mentioned Wayne Bennett earlier, he's terrible with the media but when listening to him you at least get the impression that he knows what he's talking about, and his results speak for themselves. KC is the total opposite. His results and performances are constantly poor and most of the time he seems totally confused, constantly contradicts himself and seems to be living on a different planet to everyone else. It wouldn't be so bad if he described why the performance was poor or explained what we were trying to do and why it didn't work, but that isn't what happens, we just get an unending string of bizarre and frankly ridiculous comments. I've heard people questioning whether he's on drugs, obviously he isn't but it almost seems that way at times with how detached from reality he appears to be. There's just nothing to give any indication at all that he's good at this job.
    Your right about the media bit. Wayne Bennett and Des Hassler are awful in front of the camera's, they're mostly incoherent to the point you think they're drunk. However when you manage to decipher what they're saying it actually makes sense and aside from the odd rant they tend to make constructive comments and lay it on the line. If their team has been awful they come out and say they were awful but do it in a way that doesn't single out individuals.
    Contrast this with Cunningham who comes out with some bizarre comments that bear no resemblance to what is happening in reality. After several of our thumping's this year he's come out with statements about he's "proud of the players efforts" and how he's "not concerned about the results" and we're "heading in the right direction". Comments like these are just showing his utter contempt for the fans. He's treating them like fools who's opinions just don't matter. The ensuing criticism then just entrenches his opinions even further to the point where he wont listen to any criticism at all blindly carrying on like he's some sort of 'coaching god' who knows everything.

    I loved Keiron as a player but its sad what's happening with him now as a coach. Many fans opinion of him now are so entrenched that even a GF win this year (as unlikely as this actually is) wont silence his critics. The more heavy defeats we suffer (and there will almost certainly be a few) the louder and stronger his opposition will get.

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