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Thread: Moves -possible and confirmed.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    How did TL play this week?

    You're once again advocating signing a player who doesn't play alot on an apparently long term contract based on his performances from years ago.

    It really makes no sense. Surely there are players who actually manage to play that would be interested in signing?
    You know, I just typed out a very long response to you, but then realised its not worth it. In short:

    Would TL be number 1 pick in my dream team? No. Do I think he fills a lot of roles that we need to for next year on and off the pitch (believing what fans from other clubs have said)? Yes, on paper. Am I tired of every Saints signing being torn apart before they've even pulled on a shirt? Absolutely.

    He might spend 24 months at the club on the sidelines, convince all our kids to give up the game and take home the top salary in the squad every month. He might offer Roby some much needed respite to get back to his best, put in some great defence that he's known for, and help the 19s break through and look like real options for Robys eventual replacement. Im not psychic. As for the other options, which top line Aussie will come, for Burns money (which I'm guessing were using for TL) to play second fiddle to Roby? As for options in this country, the ooc hooker list basically reads: Milner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    As for the other options, which top line Aussie will come, for Burns money (which I'm guessing were using for TL) to play second fiddle to Roby? As for options in this country, the ooc hooker list basically reads: Milner.
    I thought the TL rumour was dead in the water? Didn't Cunningham say so a week or so ago when asked? And whilst the idea of Saints adding a recognised interchange hooker to the squad would be a great idea, I don't think TL should be for consideration for the reasons I've commented before. I agree though, I'm scratching my head a little thinking of players who could do what TL can do i.e. play in the halves and at hooker, who would come over from down under. Perhaps Saints should keep an eye on developments at Manly, who have Koroisau and Godinet as well as Parcell on their books- all of which would be good options.

    In SL, Milner is a good player, but St Helens should be bold with their recruitment next year for mine, and if it is a hooker they want, they should go out and pay a fee for a quality signing. I've mentioned Clark before, as the ideal, but whether Warrington would let him go I'm not so sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    You know, I just typed out a very long response to you, but then realised its not worth it. In short:

    Would TL be number 1 pick in my dream team? No. Do I think he fills a lot of roles that we need to for next year on and off the pitch (believing what fans from other clubs have said)? Yes, on paper. Am I tired of every Saints signing being torn apart before they've even pulled on a shirt? Absolutely.
    What role do you think a player who has played less than 10 games in 2 years can fill?

    Injured?

    You say you don't like negativity towards signing the club have made but I don't recall any towards, Amor, Burns, Fages or Masoe when they signed, the others were criticised and as it turned out quite rightly but hey I'm sure the Warriors forum knows better.

    I didn't quote your comments about bringing players through because that was bordering on lunacy, I cannot believe anyone would bring in someone to develop the young no 9's in our squad and ignore the fact we have James Roby and Kieron Cunningham (the two best hookers our game has produced imo) here already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    What role do you think a player who has played less than 10 games in 2 years can fill?

    Injured?

    You say you don't like negativity towards signing the club have made but I don't recall any towards, Amor, Burns, Fages or Masoe when they signed, the others were criticised and as it turned out quite rightly but hey I'm sure the Warriors forum knows better.

    I didn't quote your comments about bringing players through because that was bordering on lunacy, I cannot believe anyone would bring in someone to develop the young no 9's in our squad and ignore the fact we have James Roby and Kieron Cunningham (the two best hookers our game has produced imo) here already.
    Lomax and LMS are as likely to break their leg next week vs Hull. TL could come in and play 60 games in 2 years, he may play 5. Thats the risk, and the club will have weighed up that risk against his positive qualities. Your tolerance to the risk may be lower than mine (or the clubs), but a fit TL is a much better player than Burns who he is likely replacing and he's better than a Milner, who is probably the best OOC hooker in this country. As for going bold, centre , halfback or back row is the place to do that before backing up Roby.

    I remember quite a few negatives on quite a few of them as well - but most of those signed 2/3 years ago. Look at this very thread, that has primarily focussed on Ratchford, Hurrell, and TL - not one of them have come out with much glory yet all of them would be an improvement on Burns or Turner who they would be replacing. We have gaps in our current squad, and interchange hooker is one of them. This signing goes towards filling that gap - regardless of whether TL is Cam Smith or not, its still a positive in my eyes.

    As for the "lunacy" I would hope KC doesn't have time on his plate (and he shouldn't) to be mentoring 19s on a 1 to 1 basis, and Roby has never shown the qualities to be adept at it either - the same reason he's never been considered a great choice for captain. TL on the other hand is very well regarded as a mentor across multiple clubs. Its a perk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Lomax and LMS are as likely to break their leg next week vs Hull. TL could come in and play 60 games in 2 years, he may play 5. Thats the risk, and the club will have weighed up that risk against his positive qualities. Your tolerance to the risk may be lower than mine (or the clubs), but a fit TL is a much better player than Burns who he is likely replacing and he's better than a Milner, who is probably the best OOC hooker in this country. As for going bold, centre , halfback or back row is the place to do that before backing up Roby.

    I remember quite a few negatives on quite a few of them as well - but most of those signed 2/3 years ago. Look at this very thread, that has primarily focussed on Ratchford, Hurrell, and TL - not one of them have come out with much glory yet all of them would be an improvement on Burns or Turner who they would be replacing. We have gaps in our current squad, and interchange hooker is one of them. This signing goes towards filling that gap - regardless of whether TL is Cam Smith or not, its still a positive in my eyes.

    As for the "lunacy" I would hope KC doesn't have time on his plate (and he shouldn't) to be mentoring 19s on a 1 to 1 basis, and Roby has never shown the qualities to be adept at it either - the same reason he's never been considered a great choice for captain. TL on the other hand is very well regarded as a mentor across multiple clubs. Its a perk.
    And what evidence for the highlighted part do you have? His performances for Wigan 4 years ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    And what evidence for the highlighted part do you have? His performances for Wigan 4 years ago?
    Any performance he has ever made in his career.

    You honestly think Burns is better than Tommy??

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Any performance he has ever made in his career.

    You honestly think Burns is better than Tommy??

    You're missing my point. TL has two years of injury problems which by the looks of it are still giving him issues. You and MS are using his performances dating back before his injuries as a reason for him being better than a player we have now, well there were plenty of better players than Burns four years ago but that's not a reason to sign them.

    Signing him would be a massive risk and it doesn't seem worth it to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    You're missing my point. TL has two years of injury problems which by the looks of it are still giving him issues. You and MS are using his performances dating back before his injuries as a reason for him being better than a player we have now, well there were plenty of better players than Burns four years ago but that's not a reason to sign them.

    Signing him would be a massive risk and it doesn't seem worth it to me
    Right. Lueluai has played NRL this year (and quite well too from the bits I've seen). Let's suppose we take the opposing view and say Burns is better than Thomas Leuluai. That is to say, you think that Burns 2016 edition would be able to get into a mid table NRL team (just like TL). In turn the implication is that the likes of Jordan Turner (and Morgan Knowles) who have kept him out of the Saints team this year would be considered top end NRL players. This is plainly ridiculous. So Burns is not NRL quality, and since we're constantly reminded that the NRL is a superior competition in every way these days, TL must be a better player than Burns. QED.

    You might not believe he is worth the risk, but 2016 Burns is not better than 2016 Leuluai. 2016 Burns may offer less risk than 2016 TL (depending on whether you believe the rumours). Without knowing any detail around contracts, it's hard to say the better value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Right. Lueluai has played NRL this year (and quite well too from the bits I've seen). Let's suppose we take the opposing view and say Burns is better than Thomas Leuluai. That is to say, you think that Burns 2016 edition would be able to get into a mid table NRL team (just like TL). In turn the implication is that the likes of Jordan Turner (and Morgan Knowles) who have kept him out of the Saints team this year would be considered top end NRL players. This is plainly ridiculous. So Burns is not NRL quality, and since we're constantly reminded that the NRL is a superior competition in every way these days, TL must be a better player than Burns. QED.

    You might not believe he is worth the risk, but 2016 Burns is not better than 2016 Leuluai. 2016 Burns may offer less risk than 2016 TL (depending on whether you believe the rumours). Without knowing any detail around contracts, it's hard to say the better value.
    Adam Quinlan has played NRL this year that doesn't make him a top end player. Forget comparing TL to Burns or Lomax as you did earlier, compare him to Sculthorpe at the same age, would you have given Scully a 3 year contract in 2008?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Adam Quinlan has played NRL this year that doesn't make him a top end player. Forget comparing TL to Burns or Lomax as you did earlier, compare him to Sculthorpe at the same age, would you have given Scully a 3 year contract in 2008?
    That is a very good point and is the only reason I don't want us to re-sign Leuluia. Although if you could get him on a pay as you play (unlikely I know) he would be well worth the risk

    That being said would you say the 2008 squad was stronger than this? I can't recall who Scully would have been up against for a squad place but if it was Travis Burns, I would have taken the chance with Sculthorpe.

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    With Parramatta having to let players leave before the weekend, I hope we're looking at players they're letting leave. Wigan benefited greatly from when Melbourne were over the cap and signed Lima, Hoffman and Finch. I hope we're looking at the players they're getting rid of in case we can fit them under the cap this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Forward Bloke View Post
    With Parramatta having to let players leave before the weekend, I hope we're looking at players they're letting leave. Wigan benefited greatly from when Melbourne were over the cap and signed Lima, Hoffman and Finch. I hope we're looking at the players they're getting rid of in case we can fit them under the cap this season.
    What do they have in the shape of a centre/second row utility player?

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    I see Paddy Flynn has joined Cas on loan.

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    Don't want Leuluai - aged, injury prone and big money. To do what ? Offer cover for Roby or a makeshift half ? No, thanks. He's a pretty limited player in attack. His real quality is in defence but paying big money for a defensive half back isn't what's needed for a club trying to win things. Worked at Wigan because of that ridiculous set structure they run, which asks practically nothing of your 7, hence why Matty Smith is there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Forward Bloke View Post
    With Parramatta having to let players leave before the weekend, I hope we're looking at players they're letting leave. Wigan benefited greatly from when Melbourne were over the cap and signed Lima, Hoffman and Finch. I hope we're looking at the players they're getting rid of in case we can fit them under the cap this season.
    They are saying Whatmough is going to retire and it's his salary that has done for them. If he does go they will be ok.

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    As a matter of principal I don't think any marquee or oversea's signing should be over 30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    As for the "lunacy" I would hope KC doesn't have time on his plate (and he shouldn't) to be mentoring 19s on a 1 to 1 basis.
    It is fairly irrelevant now, but last year KC said he was working personally with Charnock to develop his skills at hooker - I think he said he was his personal project, or something similar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Don't want Leuluai - aged, injury prone and big money. To do what ? Offer cover for Roby or a makeshift half ? No, thanks. He's a pretty limited player in attack. His real quality is in defence but paying big money for a defensive half back isn't what's needed for a club trying to win things. Worked at Wigan because of that ridiculous set structure they run, which asks practically nothing of your 7, hence why Matty Smith is there.
    Agree with all of this. Firstly, its a classic Saints signing - recruit a B Minus player on A Plus money.

    Then secondly, you have to consider what for...? To come and play second fiddle to Roby...? I think many would be forgiven for hoping that Charnock could have fulfilled that role given he has done little wrong to date.

    Its simply madness to spend a significant sum of money on a player's wages when the player in question is 30 odd, has barely played for a couple of years and offers none of the solutions to the primary needs in the team.

    Especially when you consider 'truthful' Eamonn's position that the club doesn't like offering contracts to players who are over 30 not that far back. This would be a Hull FC signing and all that's wrong with the game in this country. Sadly EM has become a bit of a mug for astute agents these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Sadly EM has become a bit of a mug for astute agents these days.
    EM simply gets who KC tells him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    EM simply gets who KC tells him.
    Nonsense.

    No matter how big KC talks the club has never worked that way

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    If we were looking at Flynn as rumoured on here, I doubt very much we could take anyone off Parramatta's hands, unless they were willing to play for peanuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Nonsense.

    No matter how big KC talks the club has never worked that way
    I know the club never used to work that way, to the extent of having the senior players involved in targets meetings ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Told you that last week!
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post





    This way to the bargain basement >>>>>

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