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Thread: EU Referendum - Who's made their mind up

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    When you backtrack on one of your headline promises before the voting has even finished, then say you need to now come up with a plan, and you have Farage, Johnson and Gove spearheading it all, you know we're f**ked. I can't even picture those three together in my mind without laughing/crying. Suppose we've secured a few jobs back for our own though. That's if we can get them out of bed in a morning.
    Not sure we will though. (secure jobs that is.....not get people out of bed)

    If we had some situation where leaving the EU brought back our national industries, created good well paid jobs for your ordinary people, and reinvested the output of those back into society then I would be quite enthused by this outcome. Sadly, what we have is the protection of the EU gone and we are now in the hands of the very vultures that have ransacked this country for the profit of the few and created the very conditions that encourage people not to go to work (not many good jobs).

    On a personal level, I am lucky. I already have my education and work in a role that requires me to travel around anyway. I am now seriously considering upping sticks and applying my trade abroad, if only for the sake of my kids. I can see this country now going the American way, with obscene levels of inequality, no services for anyone unless you pay extortionate sums for it and a generally broken society as a consequence.

  2. #102
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Juncker has shown his true colours this morning

    "It won't be an amicable divorce”, adding “it was not exactly a tight love affair anyway”

  3. #103
    Learning All The Songs barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Juncker has shown his true colours this morning

    "It won't be an amicable divorce”, adding “it was not exactly a tight love affair anyway”
    Is that unexpected??

    Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

  4. #104
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36624697

    'Mugs' springs to mind. Beyond belief that people trusted this bigot in the first place. Or maybe it isn't.

    What a complete shambles.

  5. #105
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
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    It still appears that the 48% are struggling getting over the reality that they represent the minority in this country. What's more, if anyone really believes that people voted to leave Europe entirely due to a liking for Farage, Gove or Johnson or equally believes it's a racist/ignorant/bigoted vote, then more fool you all.

    There's a long running commentary about Britain's being very different to Europeans. In many ways, it's surprising we joined Europe in the first place. It is not a surprise that at the first time of asking since, those same Britain's have demonstrated their lack of European sentiment completely.

    I don't buy into any of the scaremongering at all. It suits absolutely everybody involved to resolve things quickly, fairly and allowing both sides to continue trading in an effective manner. It suits the money men at the top of the capitalist enterprise and that's why it'll end up being resolved amicably. It'll take time and the scaremongers will have to be allowed their moment, but eventually it'll iron out. When it does so, laws I have to follow won't be decided by some daft court on the mainland and rules won't be decided by some unelected European that's never set foot here.

  6. #106
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    It still appears that the 48% are struggling getting over the reality that they represent the minority in this country. What's more, if anyone really believes that people voted to leave Europe entirely due to a liking for Farage, Gove or Johnson or equally believes it's a racist/ignorant/bigoted vote, then more fool you all. There's a long running commentary about Britain's being very different to Europeans. In many ways, it's surprising we joined Europe in the first place. It is not a surprise that at the first time of asking since, those same Britain's have demonstrated their lack of European sentiment completely. I don't buy into any of the scaremongering at all. It suits absolutely everybody involved to resolve things quickly, fairly and allowing both sides to continue trading in an effective manner. It suits the money men at the top of the capitalist enterprise and that's why it'll end up being resolved amicably. It'll take time and the scaremongers will have to be allowed their moment, but eventually it'll iron out. When it does so, laws I have to follow won't be decided by some daft court on the mainland and rules won't be decided by some unelected European that's never set foot here.
    Spot on
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  7. #107
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    We didn't actually vote to leave Europe SS, we are still part of Europe and always will be

  8. #108
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    It still appears that the 48% are struggling getting over the reality that they represent the minority in this country. .
    We are and we aren't, I think.

  9. #109
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    I'm sure some people voted Leave due to Farage. Something like 95% of UKIP voters chose Leave

    Reports that the remaining 5% had the form upside down are unsubstantiated

  10. #110
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I'm sure some people voted Leave due to Farage. Something like 95% of UKIP voters chose Leave

    Reports that the remaining 5% had the form upside down are unsubstantiated
    Ukip had 3.8m voters at the last election, I certainly wasn't one of them, and I can't stand farage.

    That's still another 14 million or so

  11. #111
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    You can't broadly term 'Leave' as a racist/bigoted/ignorant vote, but I know which side would have the higher number of votes for such motives.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post

    I don't buy into any of the scaremongering at all. It suits absolutely everybody involved to resolve things quickly, fairly and allowing both sides to continue trading in an effective manner. It suits the money men at the top of the capitalist enterprise and that's why it'll end up being resolved amicably. It'll take time and the scaremongers will have to be allowed their moment, but eventually it'll iron out. When it does so, laws I have to follow won't be decided by some daft court on the mainland and rules won't be decided by some unelected European that's never set foot here.
    just the unelected house of lords instead.......or by unelected businesses through the intense lobbying power that they have.......or by the unelected mass media (see my previously mentioned Murdock quote) through the immense influence that they have.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    You can't broadly term 'Leave' as a racist/bigoted/ignorant vote, but I know which side would have the higher number of votes for such motives.
    precisely.

    The simple fact is that if the Leave argument was founded on the migrant issue, then the overwhelming majority of those who voted leave did so based on this issue. They are not going to have ignored the prime argument in favour of leaving.

  14. #114
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    precisely.

    The simple fact is that if the Leave argument was founded on the migrant issue, then the overwhelming majority of those who voted leave did so based on this issue. They are not going to have ignored the prime argument in favour of leaving.
    Ive heard it with my own ears. I suspect we all have. For every reasoned leave argument I heard from people (not on sanitised tv/radio debates beforehand) on voting day, I generally heard one racist/ignorant one. I'm not even talking reasoned and sensible arguments against migration either, I heard "send em back (twice) and "they shouldn't be in the country in the first f'ing place". At the same time the other day I heard 2 or 3 sensible, thought out arguments based on economic reasons (even if I didn't agree). But don't forget the closet racists/ignorant who aren't 'brave' enough to put their heads above the parapet. Who knows how many votes they accounted for. Only my anecdotal experience, I accept others' experiences may well be different.

    Anyway, we all have to get on with it now and make it work. I would have liked the possibility of my children being able to freely move around and/or work/study in 27 other countries if they wanted/needed to and it's a time for taking barriers down if ever there was one, not putting them up, but it's not to be. I hope it works out in other ways
    Last edited by Sean Day; 25th June 2016 at 15:27.

  15. #115
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    All ive heard since Friday is folk moaning about the outcome and demands for a second referendum. It seems everyone is all for democracy until it doesn't go their way lol
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    All ive heard since Friday is folk moaning about the outcome and demands for a second referendum. It seems everyone is all for democracy until it doesn't go their way lol
    It isn't democracy to dupe the population with false claims that are then removed less than 24 hours after they have fell for it. People haven't complained about having a vote, its the lies that the campaigning has been based on.

    The economic argument for leave was a pure and simple lie. People will now suffer the consequences falling for those lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    All ive heard since Friday is folk moaning about the outcome and demands for a second referendum. It seems everyone is all for democracy until it doesn't go their way lol
    Didn't know you lived in Scotland😉

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    It isn't democracy to dupe the population with false claims that are then removed less than 24 hours after they have fell for it. People haven't complained about having a vote, its the lies that the campaigning has been based on. The economic argument for leave was a pure and simple lie. People will now suffer the consequences falling for those lies.
    You're right Johnny. Ive no doubt that lies have been told. Tories, labour, in or out of Europe, we always get told lies. Its not like politics was fair prior to this referendum.
    In the last election didn't UKIP get so many million votes yet still only one seat in parliament?? That for me was criminal and the biggest signal that democracy is broken. At least the referendum was a simpler and IMO fairer democratic vote. It was one of the rare occasions that the real people actually had a say in how things are done
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  19. #119
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Didn't know you lived in Scotlanddde09
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  20. #120
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Ian Duncan-Smith:

    "Our promises were a series of possibilities".

    And

    https://twitter.com/jonnycherry/stat...45489359597568

    This gets better and better!
    Last edited by Sean Day; 26th June 2016 at 14:58.

  21. #121
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    All ive heard since Friday is folk moaning about the outcome and demands for a second referendum. It seems everyone is all for democracy until it doesn't go their way lol
    All I heard from Leave voters before the vote was that it was rigged, on the assumption they had lost. So they weren't that up for democracy then either!

    Both sides displayed 'bad loser' mentalities. One because they thought they were going to lose and couldn't take it and now the other because they did lose and couldn't take it.

    At the end of the day, it's done. I'm not going to ask for a re-vote.

    I'm not changing my mind though in that this has been a massive mistake and I feel sorry for the youngsters of today. They didn't want this but they've been given it. A lot of the opportunities I had, they won't have, and that's a shame.

    Moreover though, my industry has been plunged into uncertainlty again after such a strong revival. Our EDF funding for the vast amount of construction work in the regional cities has gone, and the argument that our country will surely match that funding is as credible as saying that the £350 million saved will all go to the NHS. Nobody knows where it will go but as we've just effectively voted for Boris Johnson as PM and probably another lifetime of Tory terms with it, I guarantee you now that the South will see a disproportionate amount of money that was once evenly distributed.

    The Northerners have scored an own goal of massive proportions here. They won't accept it because nothing can be proven yet, but they have and deep down I think a lot of people have already asked themselves whether they have made the right choice here. The stonewall facts are that the terms of the leave negotiation might well mean that nothing changes with immigration and certainly nothing massively beneficial will happen to the NHS. They were two of the key factors that turned the vote and the likelihood is that lies and bullshit has won the day. The leave campaign has been won upon the promise of things that probably won't happen. The public have been conned and I lay the blame fairly and squarely at the feet of the ineffectual, nay hopeless, Conservative and Labour party leaders, who their voters simply didn't believe in.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

  22. #122
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    You're right DD - I've read a lot of opinion pieces over the last few days and everyone without exception says that the northern towns have slit their own throats. This result has divided Britain more than ever and the North will suffer more than most

    Cameron still hasn't invoked Article 50 and isn't going to though. He never wanted this result and only promised the referendum to keep his job at the last general election. As I said recently though the result is not legally binding, we don't have to leave the EU and they can't put any pressure on us to invoke it any time soon

  23. #123
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
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    Which part of the north is it that's scored the enormous own goal ? Hastings ? Bournemouth ? Nottingham ? Cornwall ?

    Some facts...

    South West - Remain 47.4% Leave 52.6%
    South East - Remain 48.2% Leave 51.8%
    The East - Remain 43.5% Leave 56.5%
    West Midlands - Remain 40.7% Leave 59.3%
    East Midlands - Remain 41.5% Leave 58.5%

    With the exception of London, almost the entire landscape of England voted to leave.

  24. #124
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    I think you've missed the point there SS but well done with the unrelated stats

  25. #125
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    No wanting to be too flippant here, but the country is slowly calming down. Both sides are shouting and moaning at each other, but the BBC' s most trending story on their website is 7 people injured on a roller coaster. We are already moving on.
    Also one of the top five questions asked about 'how will leaving the EU affect me' was 'will I be able to still buy as much duty free fags and booze as I can now'. So guess a lot of people are not too concerned.
    Most people will get up for work tomorrow as usual and by Thursday we on Redvee will be moaning about KC and discussing if we will beat Wakey Sunday.
    I really think not much will change for anyone in this country. In five years time the rich will still be rich and the poor will still be poor. We might have a different colour passport but not much else will change.

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