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Thread: EU Referendum - Who's made their mind up

  1. #76
    In The South Stand 49er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    But the man in the street who's voted for this doesn't benefit from exports. You would struggle to find an out voter with that on his mind. Now imports, that's where they get hit. We import far, far more than we export. Far more.
    Anyway these kind of discussions can rumble on forever. We all clearly have different views. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and everything works out. Either that or I'm going to the Winchester and waiting for all this to blow over.
    Agree our views can rumble on and on and as I said before it's a difficult subject to discuss on a forum, but your one point about exports. The man in the street does benefit from them, because if a company is doing well exporting, it employs that man in the street.
    It would be interesting to re visit this topic in a year and see where we are then. I think in truth none of us really knows what will happen.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    So the leave vote was predominantly from the old an poorly educated?? I don't buy that theory.
    I calibrate measuring tools in various industries up and down the country ranging from cryogenics laboratories to vehicle maintenance workshops (car and commercial).
    A few weeks back i was in central London, last week Gateshead and next week Guildford. I speak to people from all walks of life. Trust me, this leave movement has been wanted by a lot of people (old, young, man, woman, black, white) for a long time!! Folk everywhere are sick of the way things are and have been for sometime.

    Will leaving the EU fix all the issues?? Highly unlikely. Its a start though
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  3. #78
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    So the leave vote was predominantly from the old an poorly educated?? I don't buy that theory.
    I calibrate measuring tools in various industries up and down the country ranging from cryogenics laboratories to vehicle maintenance workshops (car and commercial).
    A few weeks back i was in central London, last week Gateshead and next week Guildford. I speak to people from all walks of life. Trust me, this leave movement has been wanted by a lot of people (old, young, man, woman, black, white) for a long time!! Folk everywhere are sick of the way things are and have been for sometime.

    Will leaving the EU fix all the issues?? Highly unlikely. Its a start though
    Absolutely spot on. People simply wish to stick their head in the sand and believe it's all those nasty racist uneducated mugs. The truth is it isn't - they're a minority of it.

    A simple conclusion to take is that is these areas that have heavily voted in favour of leave are also enormously populated with first, second, third and fourth generation migrants ! Which way do we conclude many of those voted ?!??

  4. #79
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Do you have any evidence for this ?

    Wealth is a far more likely correlation, although history, heritage and individual motive are equally as likely.
    Well it's not my evidence - it's the results of the vote. I read about it on various sites, Telegraph was one

    Fishy - no one is referring to you, you're one person out of 40 odd million voters

    Older people were much more likely to vote leave - not all of them did but a high % did

    Uneducated people were much more likely to vote leave - not all of them did but a high % did

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    No one is saying it was just old people that voted Leave but as you went up the age brackets the % of Leave goes up 71% of 18-24 voted Remain but it was the opposite for 60+

    Same with Education, there's a direct correlation between a lack of education and a leave vote. It doesn't mean all Leave voters are uneducated it's just that more of them will be. Opposite for a Remain voter
    Maybe because the older voters have experience of
    Living within the EU and externally from it. Whereas younger voters have only known one system.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Well it's not my evidence - it's the results of the vote. I read about it on various sites, Telegraph was one

    Fishy - no one is referring to you, you're one person out of 40 odd million voters

    Older people were much more likely to vote leave - not all of them did but a high % did

    Uneducated people were much more likely to vote leave - not all of them did but a high % did
    You could argue that a large population of the 'uneducated working class ' either aren't registered, or could be bothered to vote, and they are the ones likely to vote out too..

    I suggest by nature, at university etc. When you're younger you tend to be a lot more liberal, and more likely to remain..

    Another thing to consider is we're trusting polls which said last night a 3 or 4% victory yesterday, and predicted a hung general election a year ago. Manchester and Liverpool voted remain, both are highly populated by students, and the working class

    Every person over 50 I know voted remain, 75% under voted leave

    Every borough in Lancashire, which is as diverse as anywhere voted out too

    London, was always going to vote remain

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    When you're younger you tend to be a lot more liberal, and more likely to remain..
    Spot on. This morning on BBC 1 news it showed a clip of disappointed remain campaigners in london. They looked about 12 years old. I (shouldn't but will ) assume they're a bunch of tree hugging kids living out the pockets of well off mummy and daddy, haven't yet lived in the real world, and voted remain with all their pals because they hate 'that racist Farage'.

    For every clueless idiot who voted out, theirs just as many clueless idiots voted remain IMO
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  8. #83
    In The South Stand The.Reverand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Spot on. This morning on BBC 1 news it showed a clip of disappointed remain campaigners in london. They looked about 12 years old. I (shouldn't but will ) assume they're a bunch of tree hugging kids living out the pockets of well off mummy and daddy, haven't yet lived in the real world, and voted remain with all their pals because they hate 'that racist Farage'.

    For every clueless idiot who voted out, theirs just as many clueless idiots voted remain IMO
    And that's why there shouldn't have been a referendum.
    "Hey what do you guys think?"
    "No idea. "
    " good enough for me, put an x there please. "

    Now years to deal with all the fallout. No where to hide. Great.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    And that's why there shouldn't have been a referendum. "Hey what do you guys think?" "No idea. " " good enough for me, put an x there please. " Now years to deal with all the fallout. No where to hide. Great.
    We'll see Rev. I hope you're wrong mate
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  10. #85
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    So the leave vote was predominantly from the old an poorly educated?? I don't buy that theory.
    I have to say that I find this strange. It's not a theory, it's a fact. Is it possible to argue against a fact if your only opposition is your own opinion?

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    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    I'll be honest I'm not gutted about the result but forget my take on it...IF it does become a disaster leaving the EU the blame will be at Cameron's feet, he has put a huge decision in the hands of many people who don't understand the first thing about politics all to gain a conservative government at the last election notice Ed Milliband didn't offer a referendum as he didn't believe in it full stop.
    I actually think Cameron offered the referendum expecting NOT to gain a majority but to govern again with either a coalition or more likely a minority government where he would serve another term as PM and wouldn't 'be able' to offer a referendum...it's backfired big time on him.
    Last edited by Paul Newlove; 25th June 2016 at 07:33.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    We'll see Rev. I hope you're wrong mate
    Oh dear God I hope I'm wrong, but some of this is right in front of us and already very apparent. The £350 for the NHS, was always bullshit, that's already been confirmed as so despite it attracting millions of out votes.

    Moodys has already downgraded our credit rating from stable to negative. Calais has said •••• it you can have the jungle. The out campaign are already teasing that this won't stop immigration.

    Its been the biggest and best scam in history and many millions fell for it. But at least it's worked for Boris, as for him this was all about him getting into number 10.

    Its a nice thick door that at number 10. Don't think theres much will get through that door so he will be OK.

  13. #88
    Learning All The Songs MancSaint's Avatar
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    I haven't gone back over the entire thread so apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I personally found it very difficult to make an informed decision, as both sides set out to misinform and lie to the voters; there was so much contradiction, getting to the facts of the matter was a real struggle. Any tv debate ultimately became a "yes that will happen, no it won't at all" playground argument. Neither Leave or Remain comes out of this with any credibility, they have much to be ashamed of.

    Regardless of yesterday's result I think the EU was on borrowed time, it started when many Eastern European countries were allowed to join when it was painfully obvious they were far from ready. I also think Italy is on the verge of a financial collapse, and Spain is on shaky ground. Greece all over again essentially.

    Many pros and cons to consider; eventually it came down to a simple question -"do you want to carry on as we are?". Simple answer, "No, I'm willing to try something else" so it was a cautious Leave vote for me.
    New Zealand, Canada, Australia and the USA seem to manage (not to suggest everything is perfect here but they do function.)

    Immigration was the red herring for voters though; it simply appealed to the poorly educated whose mantra was "get rid of the immigrants." Conveniently forgetting that a huge proportion of immigrants have entered through clandestine means anyway (estimated at 1.1 million in 2011, clearly more in the last 5 years)- the decision to leave isn't going to stop them climbing into the back of a lorry at Calais; in actual fact, it could increase as a result- France may very well think that as we are no longer a member state they will let them waltz through, just happy to get rid.

    Mildly optimistic this morning. I certainly felt it was important to vote after careful consideration and not abstain. The majority of people I have spoken to voted Leave, yet interestingly Manchester itself had by far the strongest Remain vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Seems to be the only people who are complaining about the result and who voted are the ones who didn't get the result they wanted..

    If the exit campaign are all far right racists, then the in must be all left wing hippies
    Not really.....you appear to have missed the people of Cornwall out who are now wandering where there magic 60 million a year will come from. Utter utter foowits.....people have voted against their own interests based on nonsense propaganda and it will come home to roost in a big way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post

    That said it was never about immigration for me, the rules and ideas of the EU are outdated in my opinion
    which rules?

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    In The South Stand The.Reverand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    Not really.....you appear to have missed the people of Cornwall out who are now wandering where there magic 60 million a year will come from. Utter utter foowits.....people have voted against their own interests based on nonsense propaganda and it will come home to roost in a big way.
    Don't forget Wales who were one if not the biggest recipient of EU funds and voted out.

    I predict "Oh bugger" to be the most popular phrase amongst leave supporters over the next 12 months..... perhaps the next 10 years even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Absolutely spot on. People simply wish to stick their head in the sand and believe it's all those nasty racist uneducated mugs. The truth is it isn't - they're a minority of it.
    ?!??
    The simple fact is that most of the leave campaign has been fought on the grounds of immigration, and the ridiculous notion that our schools and hospitals are stretched because of this influx of people. The reality is that our schools and hospitals are stretched because of the lack of the reduction in funding which has been championed by the very same ••••wits promoting the leave campaign (as well as others of course).

    So what do we do? We go and compromise further funding and the economy in general.....top move. And will our hospitals become better? Our schools? Our roads clearer? Of course not. All that these imbiciles have done is given the power to the complete ••••wits at the extreme right of the conservative party rather than a moderate ••••wit like Cameron.

    I'll leave you with Rupert Murdocks thoughts prior to the referendum

    "I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice"

    Well done to all those who voted leave.....

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    which rules?
    One such rule is workers rights.

    You can't have the same rule for Greece and the same for the UK, totally different cultures and mentality

    I receive £82 a month for my child, which in this country buys me his monthly food and drink at a push. However if an European worker comes here and works - again no problem, and their child remains back in Europe they still get the same £82, which I suggest will get you (and having been there) in Hungary a lot more. Clearly everyone has the opportunity to better themselves, but how is that fair?

    I'm not swayed by stories of straight bananas, because that's clearly propaganda and farcical, but you cannot deny we do not make most of our laws, we do not hold the highest court in this country, who doesn't understand our customs as much as we do.

    The French government (not the mayor of Calais) have already said the bilateral agreement regarding the borders will remain in place. Germany has said we will become an associate partner, and 'back of the queue ' Barack has said our relationship is enduring? So the lies go both ways

    For every voter on the in and out who have believed the hype, there's five who've looked into it

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    One such rule is workers rights.

    You can't have the same rule for Greece and the same for the UK, totally different cultures and mentality

    I receive £82 a month for my child, which in this country buys me his monthly food and drink at a push. However if an European worker comes here and works - again no problem, and their child remains back in Europe they still get the same £82, which I suggest will get you (and having been there) in Hungary a lot more. Clearly everyone has the opportunity to better themselves, but how is that fair?

    I'm not swayed by stories of straight bananas, because that's clearly propaganda and farcical, but you cannot deny we do not make most of our laws, we do not hold the highest court in this country, who doesn't understand our customs as much as we do.

    The French government (not the mayor of Calais) have already said the bilateral agreement regarding the borders will remain in place. Germany has said we will become an associate partner, and 'back of the queue ' Barack has said our relationship is enduring? So the lies go both ways

    For every voter on the in and out who have believed the hype, there's five who've looked into it
    What I'm saying is I'm 100% confident that the outs will regret this decision over next 2 - 10 years. We must revisit this thread in the future. Some of the predicted issues are already apparent. Our credit rating alone is now from stable to negative. Britain's stronger out for sure? Let's hope we can get our borrowing under control eh as there's no bail outs for us.

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    I've already spoken to a lot of Leave voters that are regretting their decision. One of them said she felt like throwing herself off a bridge yesterday

    One good thing that came out of this though - at least St Helens has shown up not as backwards as Wigan in the results

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I've already spoken to a lot of Leave voters that are regretting their decision. One of them said she felt like throwing herself off a bridge yesterday

    One good thing that came out of this though - at least St Helens has shown up not as backwards as Wigan in the results
    St Helens voted out, same as Wigan and Warrington.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    St Helens voted out, same as Wigan and Warrington.
    Yeah but St Helens were only 58% out - Wigan were 63% IIRC

    Even more backwards than us!

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    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    And that's why there shouldn't have been a referendum.
    "Hey what do you guys think?"
    "No idea. "
    " good enough for me, put an x there please. "

    Now years to deal with all the fallout. No where to hide. Great.
    Sums it up. Most experts and analysts weren't even totally sure so Joe Bloggs on the street, no chance. Ridiculous scenario

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    One such rule is workers rights.

    You can't have the same rule for Greece and the same for the UK, totally different cultures and mentality

    I receive £82 a month for my child, which in this country buys me his monthly food and drink at a push. However if an European worker comes here and works - again no problem, and their child remains back in Europe they still get the same £82, which I suggest will get you (and having been there) in Hungary a lot more. Clearly everyone has the opportunity to better themselves, but how is that fair?
    I agree that if this goes on (and I have no reason to doubt it) that it is both a silly and unfair rule. It isn't however enough of a problem to create what will be carnage for this country......We do very well out of the EU and the effects will dwarf any of these microscopically small "wins" that you have mentioned.

    When talking about rules enforced upon us, most people quote the main ones with large effects which are usually based on agricultural and fishing industries. These industries although affected by such rules are also amongst the largest benefactors from subsidies too, it will be interesting what the nett effect will be on them and on the rest of us through potential price increases.

    From personal experience, other rules include many of the directives aimed at high hazard industries but the reality is that we regulate to a greater standard than Europe requires anyway.

    This decision that has been made, and in particular the people that have made it it utterly dumbfounding. It is quite literally as stupid as 40 million miners and British Steel workers voting for Thatcher.

    They say that Turkeys don't vote for Christmas......well, they do now.

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    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    Not really.....you appear to have missed the people of Cornwall out who are now wandering where there magic 60 million a year will come from. Utter utter foowits.....people have voted against their own interests based on nonsense propaganda and it will come home to roost in a big way.
    When you backtrack on one of your headline promises before the voting has even finished, then say you need to now come up with a plan, and you have Farage, Johnson and Gove spearheading it all, you know we're f**ked. I can't even picture those three together in my mind without laughing/crying. Suppose we've secured a few jobs back for our own though. That's if we can get them out of bed in a morning.

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