A world war will sort it. Just have to decide who's side we want to be on..
Trump v Putin. The remake of Doctor Strangelove.
On a serious note.. I actually believe this will be the end of Europe in the long term. Is that good? Who knows.
A world war will sort it. Just have to decide who's side we want to be on..
Trump v Putin. The remake of Doctor Strangelove.
On a serious note.. I actually believe this will be the end of Europe in the long term. Is that good? Who knows.
I agree with almost all of what you have said, apart from your assessment of Corbyn who IMO is a clever manipulator of the 'follow anything that's red' labour voters who believe old socialism is the still the way forward in a modern world, but all old socialism always has a faint smell of a communist in the air. But I doubt we can discuss this on a forum. This subject needs a pipe and a few pints by a nice fire to sort out..
Indeed.
It'll be interesting to watch now though because it's not the Tories most impacted by today, they're cautious on Europe anyhow, it's Labour. The most pro-EU party in Britain, that's fought election after election on more integration, that wanted us to join the Euro, that's still blaming Corbyn now rather than face the truth. Will they change tact and drop their crazy pro-EU stance now ? I doubt it. Blair moved them so far right that three things have occurred: they've deserted the core Labour voter in the north, they've allowed the SNP to swoop up all of Scotland's Labour vote and lastly, the Tories are now able to pick off swinging Labour voters in the midlands and south. The funny thing is in embracing London Town and Europe so emphatically, they've effectively managed to ostracise and subsequently lose their entire electorate, and they've done it all themselves ! When core Labour people tell them what they want and elect Corbyn, the Blairites are so stupidly set in their ways that they can't see the wood for the trees. The result ? Today - where core Labour constituencies have stuck two fingers up not just to the Tories, but to the selfish, blind, feckwits that call themselves 'Labour' today.
Never mind, im sure they'll find another traditional core Labour Oxbridge graduate to represent the unemployed and working classes of the UK once Corbyn's fall occurs.
Conversations I've heard today:
"I didn't really understand it but I voted out"
"Glad we're out of the Commonwealth "
"I voted out, but....."
"I didn't know what to do but my parents said vote out so I did"
A microcosm of what has happened on a national scale. Misinformed at best, that's already been admitted with the £350m bull, and completely ignorant at worst!
[QUOTE=Sean Day;655408]Conversations I've heard today:
"I didn't really understand it but I voted out"
"Glad we're out of the Commonwealth "
"I voted out, but....."
"I didn't know what to do but my parents said vote out so I did"
With the exception of the commonwealth remark, the rest could also apply to the Stay voters as well.
It's like that all over. People saying they wish they weren't allowed to vote as they don't understand it. It annoys me that the typical Leave voter is 60+ in terms of age. They ruined it for everyone and they'll not be around to see it!
Already financial institutions are saying that they are moving their operations from London to the EU
Funny about Cornwall - "can we still get the £60m funding each year like we did from the EU?"
Government - "no"
And they voted to leave! Morons
Seems to be the only people who are complaining about the result and who voted are the ones who didn't get the result they wanted..
If the exit campaign are all far right racists, then the in must be all left wing hippies
You cannot say with any chance certainty though. I can't say for certain we will be more prosperous out the EU as we will be able to agree our own terms
Just like I can't say we'd have 10 million Turkish here in two years had we stayed in
That said it was never about immigration for me, the rules and ideas of the EU are outdated in my opinion
I can say for certain that imports will cost more. Seen the pound today? Don't expect it to rise anytime soon due to a minimum of 2 years uncertainty about our exit from the EU. Then we have the trade deals to look forward to. Hit lows not seen since 85. It's all good.
I voted out. Im not 65. People suggesting that old folk have stitched up the country is complete nonsense. It wouldn't have even been a close call if it weren't for the rich hippies in London and the Scottish (half of which are lucky to get a say considering they wanted out of the UK last year). Take London and the Scotts out of the equation and it was actually a landslide victory for leave all over the country from folk of all ages. Not just the old.
None of us have a crystal ball. Im hopeful that this break away will in time be huge for the country. I think it will.
screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies
It's no spin. The pound touched 1.50 against the dollar yesterday as with an in vote could have reached likely over 1.55, it's at 1.37 now after recovering slightly from 1.33.
Its fine if the experts don't register with people for now, but this will all come out in the wash. Let's visit this thread in a years time. Some really are in for a rude awakening and it was all there right in front of us all.
Exporters will be better off. Most small businesses in UK are exporters..
Just heard a European money expert just say the drop in markets was half what was expected.
As said above we can pick figures out to suit our leanings.
Germany have a published paper saying they want to treat UK as a special member case.
They fear France, Austria, Finland and Hungary may look to leave.
I think the European Union have more to worry about than us, as it slowly implodes.
But the man in the street who's voted for this doesn't benefit from exports. You would struggle to find an out voter with that on his mind. Now imports, that's where they get hit. We import far, far more than we export. Far more.
Anyway these kind of discussions can rumble on forever. We all clearly have different views. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and everything works out. Either that or I'm going to the Winchester and waiting for all this to blow over.
No one is saying it was just old people that voted Leave but as you went up the age brackets the % of Leave goes up 71% of 18-24 voted Remain but it was the opposite for 60+
Same with Education, there's a direct correlation between a lack of education and a leave vote. It doesn't mean all Leave voters are uneducated it's just that more of them will be. Opposite for a Remain voter
Jereny Corbyn is a lily livered fcukwit!
We all knew that the traditional Labour support was going to stick two fingers up at Cameron's wish to remain, so if Corbyn was with Cameron on this one (and he supposedly was) then it was his duty as a Labour leader to get out there into the Labour heartlands and tell his people that this is not a vote against the Government, it's a vote for what is right for them and our country. Now if they had any belief in him, as the leader of their party, then more would have gone along with him. However, he never enforced that belief, he hid in the background and watched it all unfold in front of him. He watched the Labour communities side with the 'Leave' campaign and didn't lift a finger to stop it.
The Labour, working class areas have won this election for the 'Leave' Party, there is no doubt about that, and he did NOTHING to try and garner the support of his people. That's shameful and pathetic, in the same way that Cameron's efforts were appalling in large swathes of the Tory dominated Home Counties.
I said at the time Corbyn won the leadership of the Labour Party that he'd just given the Tories a free licence to twelve years in Downing Street and I believe that more than ever now. All Labour needed was a semi-competent leader up against a very weak David Cameron and the end would have been nigh for this Conservative Government. Miliband was embarrassing and this guy's a step down even from him.
People have to realise that his far left idealogy is dead as a dodo in this country and we'll never see a far left Labour Prime Minister again. The old school wanted it back to further their prospects, but anyone can tell you we live in a different world now. There's far less true working class and far too much 'Middle England' for socialism to ever be credible again.
The frightening thing out of all this is that now disenfranchised Labour supporters have commenced the shift to UKIP style policies. They're the winners out of this. People in the provincial towns will now see Labour as even more of a failure. They'll see the beaming Farage, the Unionism, the jingoism, the anti-immigrationism and the move IS going to happen, like it's happening in France, in Austria, in the Netherlands and in Italy; and it's only a matter of time in some of these countries before far-right extremism is entrusted with power. Then what?
I could go on and on about the economy. I work in construction and believe this is a total disaster, especially for our regional cities, but the big fear isn't just that; it's that the far right organisations of Europe are delighted with it and are sniffing opportunities.
We have created a powderkeg here and Cameron and Corbyn's pathetically weak campaigns have helped create this situation.
The nation has spoke. The sad thing is a hell of a lot of people have voted not because they think Britain will be economically stronger out, but because they have a distaste for immigrants. That's the reasoning many give and that tells you that a lot of our supposedly left wing working classes have a lot of right wing tendencies. What today tells you is that these supposed left wing, socialist communities are not. They only vote for Labour because they want to vote for a party that can feasibly oust the Tories. They don't do it because they follow the ideals of the party they vote for, so the only way to get their vote and that of others in a General Election is to give them a leader that is credible; someone who could actually lead rather than an 'old school' figurehead there simply to please the militants.
Whether you like middle of the road Labour or not, that, along with UKIP, is now the only credible alternative to a lifetime of Conservative rule. True left wing beliefs in this country are in such a minority now that anyone who continues to take the party down that path will see them become as credible as the Lib-Dems.
It's not the way that I want it, but people need to start seeing what's going on. There's no point in flogging a dead horse when we can be looking at ways to progress. There's no point in blaming Blair either, for all his faults. There's a reason that Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock were slaughtered in elections. The country simply won't go for Labour bordering on socialism in charge of it. It's gone. It's over. We haven't voted a true 'Leftie' in to power for over FORTY years!
I'm afraid these are frightening times for a once great country that is about to find that it isn't quite the world player it thought it still was.
Last edited by DD; 24th June 2016 at 19:50.
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