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Thread: KC interview

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    I have no issue at all condemning St Helens. I've been on here a long time and done so regularly, where I felt necessary. It's about being reasonable. That "rambling" post that you condemn, provoked a very interesting discussion on here about the merits of British RL. It was a starting point, as opposed to telling somebody to stop "masturbating over the NRL". I think the whole thing is pointless. My view, and it isn't going to be changed by the likes of you.

    Now, your WCC comments are valid. However they fail to acknowledge the shifting landscape of Australian RL. Since the NRL hit the financial jackpot, the WCC game has finished on average 38-7 to the Aussies. We'll see what comes on Sunday but with the Cowboys possessing the likes of Thurston and Leeds running with the likes of Rob Burrow, I'd expect something similar. The other two games you refer to, Wire and Wigan last year, us and Wigan this year are friendlies and nothing else. We literally pay them to come here and play us and they wonderfully, grace us with their presence. Why we do it to ourselves I have no idea. We gain nothing.
    I'm not particularly a fan of the WCC, for many of the reasons you mentioned in your 'rambling' post. However it generates money, interest and publicity for the sport so I have no problem with it as things stand, even if many fans know that it's just a bit of a redundant sideshow. That's also why I'm happy for it to be held here every year because it makes more of an impact here than it does in Australia, and I think that's probably the view the organisers take as well. And yes, I'm also expecting the Cowboys to thrash Leeds, whether or not they can beat Widnes' margin from last week we'll have to see.

    My comments though were about last night's game in isolation. Yes, we would struggle to compete with NRL teams in general, but we should and would've been able to compete with that NRL team if we had anything like a competent set-up. They didn't have one world class player or someone you'd consider to be a star. You talk about how NRL teams didn't take it seriously when we beat them in the past but the Roosters didn't take it seriously last night, they had a weaker team than just about any I've seen from the NRL in the WCC and they still walked over us. And that's completely on us. I could accept your comments if we were anything like a good side but sadly we're not, at present we're a million miles off deserving to be in this type of match.
    Last edited by 141; 20th February 2016 at 12:51.

  2. #77
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    I can't see what this achieves a pasting every time we play the Aussies we get a kicking,so it teaches us nothing.

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  3. #78
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    I dont think last nights game and result has really changed an awful lot.

    The result was always expected and it actually could have been much worse.

    I do think Cunningham is already on borrowed time unless he can somehow manage to turn things around. I really dont think he can though and his media comments are just up and down, he is showing no consistency and is painting himself into a corner.

    What frustrates me most at the minute though is just the apathy of the performances, just the sluggishness of play and the complete and utter lack of enthusiasm surrounding the whole club really.

    Cunningham thinks we were ok last night. What have we become willing to accept inside the walls of the club? Im sorry but this is going to come to a head at some point because I think the majority of fans would show no acceptance over last nights performance whatsoever.

    St.Helens RLFC. We are expecting more, just so you know!

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    No, because you're talking rubbish. Warrington and Wigan competed with the NRL teams last year. Super League teams have won numerous WCC matches over the years. Idolising the Australians and putting them on a pedestal is short-sighted idiocy and ignoring the issues at hand. Namely that our team has several players that are nowhere near good enough, and more importantly we are woefully coached.

    We weren't beaten by individual skill or a team of superstars and freaks last night, the Roosters had players like Ian Henderson and Sam Moa playing for them who are nothing like world-beaters. Their fullback made errors that Owens would be proud of. Yes, they had a stronger team out than us regardless of debutants (partly because of our terrible recruitment), but if they look "light years" ahead of us it's probably because they employ a real coaching staff instead of just appointing someone on the basis that he was a good player and then persisting with him even though he's horribly out of his depth. How do you think these players and teams become so good, do you think they're magical rugby freaks? Luke Walsh played in the NRL, do you think he's some sort of rugby god? No, it's because these teams are properly coached and we aren't.
    This and your other posts on this thread hit the proverbial nail well and truly on the head IMO. Spot on.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    My comments though were about last night's game in isolation. Yes, we would struggle to compete with NRL teams in general, but we should and would've been able to compete with that NRL team if we had anything like a competent set-up. They didn't have one world class player or someone you'd consider to be a star. You talk about how NRL teams didn't take it seriously when we beat them in the past but the Roosters didn't take it seriously last night, they had a weaker team than just about any I've seen from the NRL in the WCC and they still walked over us. And that's completely on us. I could accept your comments if we were anything like a good side but sadly we're not, at present we're a million miles off deserving to be in this type of match.
    Fair.

    I think you do them a disservice though. They were a routinely impressive NRL side I felt. Very disciplined, very structured and very strong defensively. We lost by 26 points but 12 of those were fortunate - the ricochet off Wilkin and the length of the field effort from our own attacking kick. This happens constantly though, Souths scored 2/3 against us last year that could equally be considered fortunate. I felt we weren't bad in the forwards with the ball. Worked hard and made metres. Our attacking play on the 4th and last tackle options were appalling again though and that kills us. Against Aussie defences, your last tackle plays are your best opportunity to put pressure on, or score and ours aren't good enough.

    I agree we have problems at present, lacking confidence is a big one for me. We look terrified of doing anything but one out, drop off, central plays. I said before last night and still think it, the most important one is HKR away this week. We were never going to beat Sydney coming off last week IMO but HKR is a game we traditionally lose, regardless of ability, and a good chance to show we're not a total mess. We'll learn plenty next weekend.

  6. #81
    Learning All The Songs Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    That game showed the effectiveness of Sydney's gameplan. As pointed out previously, when they took up a drive, there was always a man on the shoulder of the ball carrier. If our man could get a hand free, there would be no-one with him in support. Our pack did it's best. Amor, Walmsley and Thompson did very well. Our initial contact in to the tackle was good, but we couldn't get them to the floor, Sydney made yards after contact. Our pack ran hard, but couldn't break through.

    It also showed the deficiencies of not playing with 2 half backs. We have 3 half backs, yet choose to play a second rower there. That might work against Wakefield and Widnes, but it won't against the best. We looked clueless as to how to break through their defence, as usual, our plays were telegraphed. Walsh was passing the ball 5 yard too short of the line, and their defence could re-group and swarm our outside backs. If Sydney's outside backs received that kind of service, they wouldn't have looked that impressive. I'm unsure whether we are being coached in this way, or we just cannot execute reasonably simple attacking moves.

    Trent Robinson's post match analysis on Sky last night was magnificent, and one of the best pieces of sporting analysis that I've ever seen. He didn't over-complicate matters. He explained simply and effectively what Sydney's plan was, what they were looking for, how they could adapt their gameplan based on our defensive line. I don't think any coach in Super League would have picked up on a lot of the things he mentioned, let alone have come up with a plan to deal with them.

    I'm not too bothered by last night's defeat, I'd rather beat Salford or Hull KR in the Super League. Let's not pretend that this defeat is too much of an anomaly. Melbourne and Sydney both gave us far worse hidings in WCC matches in our glory years. Positively, at least we played with commitment last night.
    There definitely was commitment and effort from Saints last night, and an improved performance from the Salford game. Of course this alone only get's you so far, and whilst the Roosters have lost some great talent, they still have plenty of quality in that side. They would have beaten any SL opposition last night. Hopefully KC would've had the opportunity to spend a bit of time with Robinson to pick his brains as to how he can develop this Saints side.

    But Saints shouldn't concern themselves too much with this defeat, as being honest, they won't face a better side all season, and they can take away some positives from the game and their prospects moving forward:

    Peyroux does indeed look as though he will give Saints a try scoring threat from the centres, at least more so than Jones did and this will help their attack.
    Fages can come into the halves to partner Walsh. The Walsh and Wilkin combination doesn't work. For the same reasons as the partnership with Burns.
    The side has Lomax or McDonell to come in at full back, which will add more quality than Owens.

    regards,

    STEVO

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    Farges is the key, give the kid a run at stand off. It will lift the fans as well. If Owens is ready surely Theo is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    They were a routinely impressive NRL side I felt. Very disciplined, very structured and very strong defensively.
    That's the point really. Despite having a makeshift side with debutants and players in new positions, they were all the things that we're not. There's no magic to it and it's not just because the players are inherently better (although they do clearly have a better pool of athletes to choose from). It's down to coaching. If you haven't already, watch the post-game analysis with Trent Robinson that I posted on page one of this thread and see how much attention to detail goes into everything they do. And Robinson isn't some sort of unattainable supercoach, he was coaching in Super League not too long ago. That's why I complain about KC, because as good as he was as a player, he's never in a million years going to achieve that standard of coaching. As I posted earlier, to see his post-match comments completely dispelled and exposed within a matter of minutes was embarrassing and alarming for the club.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    That's the point really. Despite having a makeshift side with debutants and players in new positions, they were all the things that we're not. There's no magic to it and it's not just because the players are inherently better (although they do clearly have a better pool of athletes to choose from). It's down to coaching. If you haven't already, watch the post-game analysis with Trent Robinson that I posted earlier and see how much attention to detail goes into everything they do. And Robinson isn't some sort of unattainable supercoach, he was coaching in Super League not too long ago. That's why I complain about KC, because as good as he was as a player, he's never in a million years going to achieve that standard of coaching. As I posted earlier, to see his post-match comments completely dispelled and exposed within a matter of minutes was embarrassing and alarming for the club.
    Do you not think Cunningham or any other Superleage coach could have looked at those video clips and come up with similar conclusions? I do.

    As an outsider what I do find strange is Cunningham saying that Walsh and Turner were his first choice half back combination and then playing Wilkin #6. If that's his belief surely he could have played Wilkin #13 (he can do a similar job from that position) and played either Dawson or Wellington at centre. Roosters played an 18 year old in the centres last night.

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    Dawson is a championship player and an average one at that. Wilkin needs to be played as an old fashioned ball playing 13. Turner is an enigma, a new breed of manufactured player who has some attributes but has neither the guile to play half back or the defence to play centre. Turner sums up our side and the English game at present "pretty average"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Do you not think Cunningham or any other Superleage coach could have looked at those video clips and come up with similar conclusions? I do.
    I'm sure many other SL coaches could have, but based on the fact that Cunningham said literally minutes before that segment that he thought our middle unit was "absolutely outstanding" and that all their tries had been against the run of play, and then his comments here: http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/5711

    "I was proud of my middles though, I thought they were outstanding. The difference in the game were the outside backs."

    "I don't think we fell short in the middle"

    Then no, I don't think he could. His comments were completely, objectively 100% wrong which is scary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    I'm sure many other SL coaches could have, but based on the fact that Cunningham said literally minutes before that segment that he thought our middle unit was "absolutely outstanding" and that all their tries had been against the run of play, and then his comments here: http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/5711

    "I was proud of my middles though, I thought they were outstanding. The difference in the game were the outside backs."

    "I don't think we fell short in the middle"

    Then no, I don't think he could. His comments were completely, objectively 100% wrong which is scary.
    I actually thought the middles were the worst part of the performance last night. Sydney made far too many yards down the middle and several tackle busts.

    It wasnt as if they had to do much, it was simple rugby league with forwards running in pairs/pods versus the st helens approach of driving the ball away one up or dropping a pass off way to early on the inside. It doesnt take much to flummox the Saints defence thse days. I expect Saints to get hammered at Hull KR.

    There was very little that made me think wow, there is a gulf in class between competitions because Saints simply didnt want to put any real pressure in Sydney other than a bomb on the 4th tackle. The defence was awful with Savelio in particular grasping at shoulders.

    The reality is that had Saints played any other ambitious SL team they would have been beaten (just as they were at Salford). As 141 says, this team are a million miles off being worthy of this game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Do you not think Cunningham or any other Superleage coach could have looked at those video clips and come up with similar conclusions? I do.

    As an outsider what I do find strange is Cunningham saying that Walsh and Turner were his first choice half back combination and then playing Wilkin #6. If that's his belief surely he could have played Wilkin #13 (he can do a similar job from that position) and played either Dawson or Wellington at centre. Roosters played an 18 year old in the centres last night.
    Spot on Rogues. Sky have never to my knowledge asked a coach up to the touch screen to analyse a game. Most if not all coaches in Superleague have played or coached under Australian coaches and would surely have picked up these sorts of tactics and will no doubt use them in our league. I'm sure if Sky ever did start asking our coaches to explain tactics then they would be just as knowledgeable about the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    Spot on Rogues. Sky have never to my knowledge asked a coach up to the touch screen to analyse a game. Most if not all coaches in Superleague have played or coached under Australian coaches and would surely have picked up these sorts of tactics and will no doubt use them in our league. I'm sure if Sky ever did start asking our coaches to explain tactics then they would be just as knowledgeable about the game.
    But apparently not KC, who thought the middles were great and they won the game because of their outside backs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 141 View Post
    But apparently not KC, who thought the middles were great and they won the game because of their outside backs.
    But to be fair I think Cunningham had decided not to say how bad we were but pointed out what we did well. I thought our forwards did play well with the ball and made decent yards. When we tried to go wide we got found out as we have no quality in either the halves or three quarters. This was pointed out by KC and he made the point that there outside backs are far superior. I do agree that he went a bit OTT with the outstanding comment but I think he's trying to build the confidence of the players and he must feel that praising them is the best way to do that. Only time will tell.

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    In The South Stand Tallahassee's Avatar
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    If we lack in the backs why did we recruit the poor players we did if he knows they are s**t or 'not ready'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    But to be fair I think Cunningham had decided not to say how bad we were but pointed out what we did well. I thought our forwards did play well with the ball and made decent yards. When we tried to go wide we got found out as we have no quality in either the halves or three quarters. This was pointed out by KC and he made the point that there outside backs are far superior. I do agree that he went a bit OTT with the outstanding comment but I think he's trying to build the confidence of the players and he must feel that praising them is the best way to do that. Only time will tell.
    It's one thing to protect the players (which I thought he was doing last week when he was praising Knowles) and it's another to flat-out lie. The significance of the clip that I keep posting is that Robinson explains how they beat us and it's literally the opposite of what Cunningham said post-match. So either he's completely and utterly clueless or it's some sort of misguided attempt at building confidence and saving face, which of course totally backfires when you then have the winning coach on straight after illustrating how KC is completely wrong. Either way, the man is way out of his depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    But to be fair I think Cunningham had decided not to say how bad we were but pointed out what we did well. I thought our forwards did play well with the ball and made decent yards. When we tried to go wide we got found out as we have no quality in either the halves or three quarters. This was pointed out by KC and he made the point that there outside backs are far superior. I do agree that he went a bit OTT with the outstanding comment but I think he's trying to build the confidence of the players and he must feel that praising them is the best way to do that. Only time will tell.
    Maybe , but he said our middles were great.
    Then the opposition coach proved to everyone a few minutes later that our middles were awful - How embarrassing !

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    Saying that players aren't ready because they are too young seems a bit strange from , Cunningham who was a regular first teamer at 18yrs old and Long who though not regular was still playing in his teens and then we have Gardner who was a regular at 19yrs old and then we have Wellens there who was a regular from 18yrs old , if they could do it why be afraid to let the lads we have in , the only way to find out is to give them a chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Saying that players aren't ready because they are too young seems a bit strange from , Cunningham who was a regular first teamer at 18yrs old and Long who though not regular was still playing in his teens and then we have Gardner who was a regular at 19yrs old and then we have Wellens there who was a regular from 18yrs old , if they could do it why be afraid to let the lads we have in , the only way to find out is to give them a chance.
    Saying Fages isn't ready for Super League is just nonsense anyway. he has played over 60 first team games scoring 20 tries, and has played for France numerous times. He is an experienced super league player and international yet apparently isn't ready to play for us....why on earth did we sign him? He isn't going to get more experience sat in the stands.

    Last night was the perfect opportunity to give the guy a decent run out against NRL opposition - a chance he is sadly unlikely to have again at Saints for the next few years.
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
    Keiron Cunningham, 2016

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    Starting A Programme Collection jefmeister2004's Avatar
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    Farges is the new Tompkins

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Saying that players aren't ready because they are too young seems a bit strange from , Cunningham who was a regular first teamer at 18yrs old and Long who though not regular was still playing in his teens and then we have Gardner who was a regular at 19yrs old and then we have Wellens there who was a regular from 18yrs old , if they could do it why be afraid to let the lads we have in , the only way to find out is to give them a chance.
    I don't get the impression that Cunningham is especially keen on promoting our young players. It appears he would rather play senior players out of position than show faith in young guns to step up.

    On the point about Fages: I am sorry for the guy. I think he got the impression that he would actually be getting game time at Saints by coming here. As it looks presently he would have had more game time had he stayed at Salford. He is an experienced player now and should be in the halves alongside Walsh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    I agree we have problems at present, lacking confidence is a big one for me. We look terrified of doing anything but one out, drop off, central plays. I said before last night and still think it, the most important one is HKR away this week. We were never going to beat Sydney coming off last week IMO but HKR is a game we traditionally lose, regardless of ability, and a good chance to show we're not a total mess. We'll learn plenty next weekend.
    I disagree that we lack confidence. I think we are overly confident; hence the attitude problems we display. I think what we lack is cohesion and attention to detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie's Boots View Post
    I disagree that we lack confidence. I think we are overly confident; hence the attitude problems we display. I think what we lack is cohesion and attention to detail.
    How could anyone with brain one in the current Saints team be overconfident. If anyone in that team is overconfident, then they are going to be in a lot of trouble when they get their next drugs test.

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    Have stopped following most of the players on Twitter, as they were all tweeting how well they thought they had done last night. Sounds like they are all drinking the Kool-Aid.

    Also, is Cunningham obsessed with the f*cking middles?

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