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Thread: Mosoe

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    What do you think we should do that we arent?

    For me he is an impact prop, who should be spelled to get the maximum out of him in that short space of time. If we spell him but he doesn't make any impact, what more can we do? Had we left him of for 40mins I would agree, but we appear to be rotating him as we should.
    I think we should give him the ball when he is at full pace so he hits the defensive line at full pelt. At the moment that happens every now and again. He quite often gets the ball passed to him when he is three foot from the passer, stood still or walking into the ball. Is that a coaching issue? Is it the passers fault? Is it Mose's fault? Wherever the fault lies, it's down to the coaches to sort it out. At least then when he is on (and accept its not long enough) we get the most out of him.
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  2. #52
    Got A Season Ticket Dom McCormack's Avatar
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    I'd like to make two points.

    I've given Masoe plenty of time (following his initial injury and subsequent claims by himself that this year, after a full pre season, we'd see a different player who shed a few kilos). I see nothing that tells me he is improving. Like so many before him both British and foreign, here is a player who potentially could be ridiculously good. However I can only think its his attitude and desire to play the game, whether its for Saints, Penrith or whoever that is lacking. For me, he's still overweight and unfit. The modern trend for 'impact players' demands a player play for 15-20 minutes at an intensity that has a direct effect on the opposition and the game i.e. 100%. This isn't happening and Keiron needs to address it very quickly (which I doubt will happen).

    I will guess that Mose will leave at the end of the season, go back to the NRL and be a similar player that (I believe) he was at Penrith - hence the reason why they let him go. The one caveat to all of this is the fact that during the World Cup in England, just before he arrived at Saints, he was the PERFECT impact player and was terrific, with me and many others rubbing our hands together saying "At last!!!!! We've got someone who's going to mix it up". Alas, we've been given Mose, the shadow of his former self.

    The other point I was going to make was a general one regarding the issue of forwards taking the ball at pace. i.e. "on the burst". For me, I can't remember the last person who's style could be described as someone who takes it "on the burst" consistently in the Super League era and I can only come to the conclusion that its been coached out of the game, maybe because players are much bigger, stronger and collisions are so much more aggressive that injury could occur. I'm comparing it to the likes of Kevin Ward et al, who's 'game' was to take it forward at pace, gain momentum through contact and offload through or round the back of the defenders. This just doesn't seem to happen anymore, or if it does, I can't think of any one team or individual who does it effectively.
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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I have always been of the view that Masoe should not be receiving the ball directly from the acting half back. Rather, he should be running slightly wider off the likes of Burns or Walsh both of whom are good enough to assess whether to give him the ball on the crash or to use the space further out.
    I think this is an interesting point and applies to the way we use most of our props. I hope now we have two half backs in the team we may see a few changes here but I think at times we go one out far too much and sometimes our play becomes a bit predictable. By this I mean one dummy half pass a few metres along with a forward taking the pass. Wigan targetted the middle of the field on good friday because they knew we weren't going to have a forward running slightly wider and it was all very predictable. Poor Amor and Walmsley were getting smashed alot (and fair play to them they stuck to the task).
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  4. #54
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    Teams have been targeting the middle against us for weeks, HKR were the first and every week since teams are doing it. Thankfully there were signs in the Leeds game second half that we've cottoned on to it. We had Burns and Walsh at 1st and 2nd but they were miles apart meaning that in two passes we'd cover half the width of the field and we opened Leeds up and made them look very vulnerable off the back of it. Turner's first try was an example of it, although not as clear as others. Teams will really struggle to defend so centrally against us with that kind of tactic, making our forwards more effective up the middle and our attacks more potent when we go wider.

    On Masoe, he was awful Friday but he has these games. It's blatantly obvious he's incredibly inconsistent. However, I wouldn't write him off. I do wish we'd use him as the dummy more often though. He pulls in four and five defenders and we barely ever use him as the dummy and just go wider and give the winger a walk in. It's so obvious a tactic but so rarely do we use it.

  5. #55
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    Good points SS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I think we should give him the ball when he is at full pace so he hits the defensive line at full pelt. At the moment that happens every now and again. He quite often gets the ball passed to him when he is three foot from the passer, stood still or walking into the ball. Is that a coaching issue? Is it the passers fault? Is it Mose's fault? Wherever the fault lies, it's down to the coaches to sort it out. At least then when he is on (and accept its not long enough) we get the most out of him.
    Aye, and this is what I'm getting at. I see that as a failure to execute the play rather than a tactical issue(I think!!). I can't believe that we would be telling him to take the ball flat with no run up.

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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Do professional players with NRL and international honours have to be told how and where to run onto a ball? A decent half will put him into space if he runs in the right holes.
    Im pretty sure that was under 11's training.

    It's about graft and hunger for the ball see Big Alex for details.

  8. #58
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    When Masoe runs onto the ball with intent he takes a hell of a lot of stopping. Too often though he waits until the 4th tackle before offering himself as a runner and if the play goes the other way then he doesn't get a carry. Most of our other props are offering themselves for 2 carries so they're bound to get more ball. Masoe wants to be taking the ball 2nd or 3rd tackle so that if he does make good ground then we can take advantage of it. In a strong team performing well across the park you can afford to have an inconsistent luxury like Mose. But when the chips are down and we're relying on a pack effort, we need to see much more from him.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Learning All The Songs WA10's Avatar
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    It's probably a given that Mose will go back at the end of this season, has anyone heard anymore on whether Lama Tasi is coming in to replace him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WA10 View Post
    It's probably a given that Mose will go back at the end of this season, has anyone heard anymore on whether Lama Tasi is coming in to replace him?
    You could replace him with a firework to be honest. Cheaper and bigger bang at the end of it's very short shift.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Do professional players with NRL and international honours have to be told how and where to run onto a ball? A decent half will put him into space if he runs in the right holes. Im pretty sure that was under 11's training. It's about graft and hunger for the ball see Big Alex for details.
    i agree. too many excuses being made for mosoe on here. he's a lazy waste of a shirt and plays when he wants to
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    i agree. too many excuses being made for mosoe on here. he's a lazy waste of a shirt and plays when he wants to
    I have always thought from the day he arrived he was overweight and unfit,nothing has changed.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon1964 View Post
    I have always thought from the day he arrived he was overweight and unfit,nothing has changed.
    Except he is now the owner of a Super League champion's ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Except he is now the owner of a Super League champion's ring.
    True,so is Lance and he played 1 minute.(through no fault of his own I know)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom McCormack View Post
    I'd like to make two points.

    I've given Masoe plenty of time (following his initial injury and subsequent claims by himself that this year, after a full pre season, we'd see a different player who shed a few kilos). I see nothing that tells me he is improving. Like so many before him both British and foreign, here is a player who potentially could be ridiculously good. However I can only think its his attitude and desire to play the game, whether its for Saints, Penrith or whoever that is lacking. For me, he's still overweight and unfit. The modern trend for 'impact players' demands a player play for 15-20 minutes at an intensity that has a direct effect on the opposition and the game i.e. 100%. This isn't happening and Keiron needs to address it very quickly (which I doubt will happen).

    I will guess that Mose will leave at the end of the season, go back to the NRL and be a similar player that (I believe) he was at Penrith - hence the reason why they let him go. The one caveat to all of this is the fact that during the World Cup in England, just before he arrived at Saints, he was the PERFECT impact player and was terrific, with me and many others rubbing our hands together saying "At last!!!!! We've got someone who's going to mix it up". Alas, we've been given Mose, the shadow of his former self.

    The other point I was going to make was a general one regarding the issue of forwards taking the ball at pace. i.e. "on the burst". For me, I can't remember the last person who's style could be described as someone who takes it "on the burst" consistently in the Super League era and I can only come to the conclusion that its been coached out of the game, maybe because players are much bigger, stronger and collisions are so much more aggressive that injury could occur. I'm comparing it to the likes of Kevin Ward et al, who's 'game' was to take it forward at pace, gain momentum through contact and offload through or round the back of the defenders. This just doesn't seem to happen anymore, or if it does, I can't think of any one team or individual who does it effectively.
    I can think of one - Cuthbertson. What are or scouts/contacts doing?

  16. #66
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Except he is now the owner of a Super League champion's ring.
    your point being??? that he was part of a championship winning team?? or that he's a champion player???
    Last edited by fishy3005; 22nd April 2015 at 11:10.
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  17. #67
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    Masoe has been a frustrating disappointed. Like us all I watched the youtube smiling assassin clips and couldn't wait. Last season he had the excuse of the injury and missing pre season but this season is in danger of just fading away. The frustrating thing is that you see occasional glimpses that give you hope then games like Leeds

    Re impact players generally who would you say past or present would be the sort of impact player that you would love now. A few random names ............

    Roy Haggerty
    Freddy Tuilagi
    Vila Matautia

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    Quote Originally Posted by headtackle View Post
    Masoe has been a frustrating disappointed. Like us all I watched the youtube smiling assassin clips and couldn't wait. Last season he had the excuse of the injury and missing pre season but this season is in danger of just fading away. The frustrating thing is that you see occasional glimpses that give you hope then games like Leeds Re impact players generally who would you say past or present would be the sort of impact player that you would love now. A few random names ............ Roy Haggerty Freddy Tuilagi Vila Matautia
    i'd give my right arm for us to have a freddie tuilagi in the side. he was a cannonball! strong and fast with not a hint of self preservation
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    i'd give my right arm for us to have a freddie tuilagi in the side. he was a cannonball! strong and fast with not a hint of self preservation
    We have one - Vea. He is just injured at the moment.

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    Mose playing with a rib injury at the moment

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    We have one - Vea. He is just injured at the moment.
    i like vea. i fail to see the comparison though
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon1964 View Post
    I have always thought from the day he arrived he was overweight and unfit,nothing has changed.
    Me too I thought exactly the same with little improvement.

  23. #73
    Starting A Programme Collection WindsorSaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chesterxiii View Post
    To be fair though, when they do get the ball to him he's only got about 2 or3 metres before hitting a defender or 5. If we are going to use him he needs to get up to speed with abit more space otherwise with his lack of anything else to offer, he might as well be in the stands full stop. Of course this has all been said last year but lessons haven't been learned.
    And this is a key point for me. He can attract multiple defenders to stop him, he might not make much ground with that number of defenders focusing on him but when we have our halves back, they can exploit that space with some quality quick ball out wide. He'll be worth his weight in GOLD if we can do that. Sadly that has been lacking for the last 12 months + due to our well documented injury list and this has made him look average at best as defences blitz him as they know we can't take advantage at the moment (hope to see this change with Burns & Walsh starting)!

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    The issue is if you have Mose hitting the same line that Vea or Greenwood was hitting off the back of a second man play, he is either likely to score off the back of it (due to a lack of defenders around him) or create space for the full back/centre/winger outside him because his option run has brought in 3 or 4 defenders.

    It's no great shakes to put him in that position with a structured set in the oppositions half.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindsorSaint View Post
    And this is a key point for me. He can attract multiple defenders to stop him, he might not make much ground with that number of defenders focusing on him but when we have our halves back, they can exploit that space with some quality quick ball out wide. He'll be worth his weight in GOLD if we can do that. Sadly that has been lacking for the last 12 months + due to our well documented injury list and this has made him look average at best as defences blitz him as they know we can't take advantage at the moment (hope to see this change with Burns & Walsh starting)!
    we had no half backs late last season and he scored two tries from a standing start with at least 3 defenders hanging onto him. he can do it if he puts his mind to it. i think hes just lazy. he's probably saving himself for the NRL next year
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