Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 53

Thread: Burgess move to Sydney Confirmed

  1. #26
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    10,677
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    The Oxford dictionary definition is - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    The belief that all Australians are labelled as convicts fits that definition.

    Maybe we should all agree to disagree and stick to the Burgess theme. Apologies for derailing :-)
    I'd say in this instance that the 'race' of the Aussies the term is directed at in this context is white. As such, you'd need to argue that the term 'convict' is racist to all whites across the globe to qualify as racism. It obviously isn't as it's specifically used in the context of Australians. Therefore, the definition of xenophobia (prejudice against people of other countries) is more applicable.

    Racism specific to skin colour, xenophobia more for an attack on specific nationalities.

    Just to add, I'm a bit of cricket nut and have attended plenty of games against the Aussies. They don't take the term to heart at all in my experience. It's taken in good spirits. I've also heard them come out with far worse about the English ! There's a love/hate relationship between Aussies and the English. They pretend to hate us but they don't and all generally enjoy the banter, certainly more so at the cricket than the rugby.

    Just my view.

  2. #27
    Learning All The Songs WA10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    St Helens
    Posts
    1,565
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    However you dress it up, you are still giving an entire nation a negative stereotype. That is racism.
    I don't always agree with your posts but you're spot on with this one.

  3. #28
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,761
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Big loss to Wigan. If they tried to keep him fair enough, though if they were a bit slow off the mark more fool them. They have obviously been in a position to monitor him closely before he nailed down a spot.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

  4. #29
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,761
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon1964 View Post
    I think it's a big risk on his part, a 21 year old lad the other side of the World.
    Seems grounded enough to me but certainly got the physique and ability to do very well.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

  5. #30
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,297
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Whether it is true or not, I read on one of the wigan forums that he was only on 8k a year at Wigan. I am not sure if this is a standard wage for academy players at wigan, our club and others, but seriously 8k a year!!!!

    It is dissapointing to see the best young players disappearing off to Australia, but Wigan and us and certain other clubs do seem capable of bringing good youngsters through. The only worry for me is if the clubs start to put less money into youth development due to the risk of players being poached at a young age.

  6. #31
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    11,763
    Rep Power
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    I'd say in this instance that the 'race' of the Aussies the term is directed at in this context is white. As such, you'd need to argue that the term 'convict' is racist to all whites across the globe to qualify as racism. It obviously isn't as it's specifically used in the context of Australians. Therefore, the definition of xenophobia (prejudice against people of other countries) is more applicable.

    Racism specific to skin colour, xenophobia more for an attack on specific nationalities.

    Just to add, I'm a bit of cricket nut and have attended plenty of games against the Aussies. They don't take the term to heart at all in my experience. It's taken in good spirits. I've also heard them come out with far worse about the English ! There's a love/hate relationship between Aussies and the English. They pretend to hate us but they don't and all generally enjoy the banter, certainly more so at the cricket than the rugby.

    Just my view.
    Fair enough. Last thing I'll say on the matter is that race doesn't necessarily mean skin colour.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

  7. #32
    In The South Stand Nickles Forearm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    St Helens
    Posts
    2,582
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    Whether it is true or not, I read on one of the wigan forums that he was only on 8k a year at Wigan. I am not sure if this is a standard wage for academy players at wigan, our club and others, but seriously 8k a year!!!!

    It is dissapointing to see the best young players disappearing off to Australia, but Wigan and us and certain other clubs do seem capable of bringing good youngsters through. The only worry for me is if the clubs start to put less money into youth development due to the risk of players being poached at a young age.
    That will never happen, even if our clubs wanted to we rely heavily on youth development, now more than ever

    The top top NRL players we can't afford. The pull just simply isn't there any more unless your banished from over there for whatever reason ie Todd Carney.

    We will always produce our own & the NRL & union to some extent alike will always look to poach the elite. We just have to remain proud we can produce them & continue to look for the next

  8. #33
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,220
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I really wish you'd stop calling Australian's convicts. It's blatant racial stereotyping and it makes you look like a d!ck.
    I feel like I have stumbled into a PC Guardian readers forum

    Come on is this for real

    Referring to them as convicts is a simple joke and cant believe that 200 years from when their ancestors landed with their ball and chains many would take offence just as I don't care if I am referred to as a Pom or a Pommie Ba****rd. Is water off a ducks back to most

    If you were referring to skin colour, religion or referring to our colonial friends as Abbos or something like that I would obviously agree that that would be disgraceful racism but convict !! The world is going mad !

  9. #34
    In The South Stand E Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,765
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Burgess brothers, Jammer, Widdop, Tomkins will certainly gain from playing there, Cooper wont be far off an internationals if he plays like last year. Look how bad we were in 2008, compare that to 2013 and this years 4n.
    But since they have been over there - Burgess brothers a number of years including Sam, Widdop all of his career, Tomkins 2 years, Jammer 3 years. The results have been as bad as ever, if not worse.

    In the late 80's and 90s we regularly beat the Kiwis in test series, and used to regularly win one test in a 3 test series against the Kangaroos. The wins over the other big two nations are becoming fewer and further between. Sorry, but I just don't see the improvement.

  10. #35
    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Rivington Road, St Helens
    Posts
    2,903
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    We may lose more now to NZ as they have improved, as a consequence of the Warriors being members of the ARL/NRL since 1995.

  11. #36
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Petton, Shropshire
    Posts
    1,219
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E Saint View Post
    But since they have been over there - Burgess brothers a number of years including Sam, Widdop all of his career, Tomkins 2 years, Jammer 3 years. The results have been as bad as ever, if not worse.

    In the late 80's and 90s we regularly beat the Kiwis in test series, and used to regularly win one test in a 3 test series against the Kangaroos. The wins over the other big two nations are becoming fewer and further between. Sorry, but I just don't see the improvement.
    Exactly my point, since those players have been there..... 2008 world cup compared to 2013 and last years 4n.

    NRL /ARL since 80s and 90s totally overtook us in the way we play the game. Hence we need some players out there to that level of intensity. The new SL format may increase that over here but not comparable to NRL.
    Season ticket renewed, fifth year at Saints 2017. Beer at The George time.

  12. #37
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Petton, Shropshire
    Posts
    1,219
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    That will never happen, even if our clubs wanted to we rely heavily on youth development, now more than ever

    The top top NRL players we can't afford. The pull just simply isn't there any more unless your banished from over there for whatever reason ie Todd Carney.

    We will always produce our own & the NRL & union to some extent alike will always look to poach the elite. We just have to remain proud we can produce them & continue to look for the next
    IF some clubs could afford the marquee signings, especially the British idea I suggested we wouldn't have to settle for just producing talent to be poached. I agree with you, but it doesn't mean we should have to accept it.
    Season ticket renewed, fifth year at Saints 2017. Beer at The George time.

  13. #38
    In The South Stand Nickles Forearm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    St Helens
    Posts
    2,582
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    It's about keeping the competition stable whilst still competitive though. This Is no doubt why Mr Koucash's idea of the marquee signing was turned down, too many clubs falling down in a salary capped sport just isn't good enough

    Here's to hoping the new SL format works & the clubs benefit from that leading us to hopefully raise that salary cap and re-consider Marwan's suggestion. Until then those players that would usually stay playing in our comp under those circumstances will continue to leave

  14. #39
    Got A Season Ticket zerohero1266's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    However you dress it up, you are still giving an entire nation a negative stereotype. That is racism.
    Its got nothing at all to do with racism in the slightest its no different to calling Wiganers pie eaters.And is that racist ?

  15. #40
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Petton, Shropshire
    Posts
    1,219
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    It's about keeping the competition stable whilst still competitive though. This Is no doubt why Mr Koucash's idea of the marquee signing was turned down, too many clubs falling down in a salary capped sport just isn't good enough

    Here's to hoping the new SL format works & the clubs benefit from that leading us to hopefully raise that salary cap and re-consider Marwan's suggestion. Until then those players that would usually stay playing in our comp under those circumstances will continue to leave
    Agreed.
    Do think though, on a level and fairly low cap the smaller clubs have not caught up so like i said originally, if (I'm presuming here) 5 or 6 can afford marquee players, especially British lads and keep them in SL I would support it.
    Season ticket renewed, fifth year at Saints 2017. Beer at The George time.

  16. #41
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    11,763
    Rep Power
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zerohero1266 View Post
    Its got nothing at all to do with racism in the slightest its no different to calling Wiganers pie eaters.And is that racist ?

    It's ran its course mate. I don't want to carry it on now. Agree to disagree. I nomally hate anything overly-PC but that particularly slur just does my head in that's all.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

  17. #42
    In The South Stand 49er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,222
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Funny that at a fans forum the other night John Wilkin mentioned one of his worries was losing young British talented players to the NRL.
    As said before, on a selfish Saints basis I don't care at all, but wanting to see the best British players here it's not good for our game. But I don't blame the individual, we would all do or at least consider it ourselves if we had the opportunity.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

  18. #43
    In The South Stand E Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,765
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Exactly my point, since those players have been there..... 2008 world cup compared to 2013 and last years 4n.

    NRL /ARL since 80s and 90s totally overtook us in the way we play the game. Hence we need some players out there to that level of intensity. The new SL format may increase that over here but not comparable to NRL.

    2008 World Cup was the same result as 2012. We failed to beat the kiwis or the kangaroos. The closeness of the scores is irrelevant, in my opinion winning is all that counts, I'm sick of gallant losses.

    We'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see that our best players playing overseas improves us, and having your national coach over there is even more absurd but that's a different story all together!

  19. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,308
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E Saint View Post
    2008 World Cup was the same result as 2012. We failed to beat the kiwis or the kangaroos. The closeness of the scores is irrelevant, in my opinion winning is all that counts, I'm sick of gallant losses.

    We'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see that our best players playing overseas improves us, and having your national coach over there is even more absurd but that's a different story all together!
    To be fair it has to improve our players New Zealand are a million times better team through their players playing in the NRL (god that hurts to admit)I will probably get stick for my next comment,but i genuinely believe that we will win a major competition in the next three years,World Cup or Four nations i really do,we are as good as both Australia and New Zealand, we just need the right coach,who will instill 'The Belief' that is all we are lacking,we have the players we need that extra 1%

  20. #45
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    107
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Do Wigan get a fee for him or is his contract up allowing him to just walk away at the end of the season?

  21. #46
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,965
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airsporter 22 View Post
    Do Wigan get a fee for him or is his contract up allowing him to just walk away at the end of the season?
    Contract up at the end of 2015. Wigan get nothing for coaching and bringing through a talented young English player.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  22. #47
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Petton, Shropshire
    Posts
    1,219
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E Saint View Post
    2008 World Cup was the same result as 2012. We failed to beat the kiwis or the kangaroos. The closeness of the scores is irrelevant, in my opinion winning is all that counts, I'm sick of gallant losses.

    We'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see that our best players playing overseas improves us, and having your national coach over there is even more absurd but that's a different story all together!
    Agreed and defo agreed on McNamara!
    Season ticket renewed, fifth year at Saints 2017. Beer at The George time.

  23. #48
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,997
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airsporter 22 View Post
    Do Wigan get a fee for him or is his contract up allowing him to just walk away at the end of the season?
    And thats were it stinks(unless he was due to go this year and is 'loaned' back for a year and they pay a fee now, bit like W!re with Clark?)

  24. #49
    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Rivington Road, St Helens
    Posts
    2,903
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saintokell View Post
    And thats were it stinks(unless he was due to go this year and is 'loaned' back for a year and they pay a fee now, bit like W!re with Clark?)
    I'm unable to understand what stinks about a contract running its course and then both parties being free to do as they wish. Burgess has been no more disloyal to Wigan than Wigan have been to any player who has not had his contract renewed on its expiry.

  25. #50
    In The South Stand 49er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,222
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I'm unable to understand what stinks about a contract running its course and then both parties being free to do as they wish. Burgess has been no more disloyal to Wigan than Wigan have been to any player who has not had his contract renewed on its expiry.
    Agree totally. That's how a contract should run. You sign for say two years, you do two years. You then discuss /decide where you want to go, or stay and renew.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •