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Thread: Martin Offiah

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    Starting A Programme Collection Marsh's Avatar
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    Default Martin Offiah

    Has made the following comments recently

    "But former great Martin Offiah believes the doubts over Saints' title credentials will rumble on.

    He said: "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did.

    "That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them.

    "Saints have got a lot to prove now they are champions. They are going to be under pressure.

    "I am really interested in how new coach Keiron Cunningham will do this year."

    Offiah, part of a Wembley statue that will be unveiled at this year's Ladbrokes Challenge Cup final, is betting on Wigan to get revenge.

    He said: "To lose the title by having a player sent off will be fuel to everything they do.

    "All that effort, work and preparation came to nothing last season but I expect them to do very well this year."


    He must still be feeling the pain, a very bitter pie.

    comments as per http://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby-lea...Helens-critics

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    In The South Stand 49er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh View Post
    Has made the following comments recently

    "But former great Martin Offiah believes the doubts over Saints' title credentials will rumble on.

    He said: "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did.

    "That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them.


    "Saints have got a lot to prove now they are champions. They are going to be under pressure.

    "I am really interested in how new coach Keiron Cunningham will do this year."

    Offiah, part of a Wembley statue that will be unveiled at this year's Ladbrokes Challenge Cup final, is betting on Wigan to get revenge.

    He said: "To lose the title by having a player sent off will be fuel to everything they do.

    "All that effort, work and preparation came to nothing last season but I expect them to do very well this year."


    He must still be feeling the pain, a very bitter pie.

    comments as per http://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby-lea...Helens-critics
    What he says is right. Non Saints fans will be saying that. Lots of people I have spoken to almost to a man said well you only won because they lost a player. So his first comments are correct. Saints fans I assume will not agree, but not sure he is addressing us. Re KC I am interested in how he will do, I am sure we all are, including the larger RL world. We will be under more pressure this year as well. Any club that is a champion will be.
    Re his Wigan comments again he is probably correct. I am sure they will want to be top dog and will want to knock us off our pedestal, but I would expect that from any club with ambition.
    The only thing I would like to have known is how Offiah would have responded had the GF been won by Wigan in exactly the same circumstances. Not sure he would have said the same..
    But I can't disagree with what he has said.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

  3. #3
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    Saints won that Grand final because Saints were intelligent enough to come up with a plan B when a key player had been knocked out. Whereas Wigan only had one plan, the same plan they'd played all year. We were capable of doing this because of the adversity of injuries to key players throughout the year prepared us for it.

    Saints won because they were smart and battle hardened. Wigan lost because they were dumb.

    The sending off was only a symptom of that. Not the cause.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    As much as we might not like to admit it we wouldn't have won the grand final if wigan had a full compliment. We make out like Flower took out a key player but Hohaia had been ineffective at half back all year with no discernible organisation or kicking abilities, he wasn't suddenly about to turn into a half back just cos it was the grand final. I'm thrilled we won and I absolutely don't care how we did it, after all the years of pain it wouldn't have made a difference to me if we'd been playing against 8 men.

    We were the best team last year, finishing top with an injury list that would have crippled most teams. We rightly will have a target on our backs this year but we have the quality to deal with that, injuries permitting.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Learning All The Songs WA10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    What he says is right. Non Saints fans will be saying that. Lots of people I have spoken to almost to a man said well you only won because they lost a player. So his first comments are correct.
    I couldn't disagree more.

    IMHO I feel that Saints were disadvantaged more than Wigan after the Flower incident and any fan or pundit not looking through tinted glasses would likely agree. Saints lost their only recognised "playmaker", and a makeshift one at that; we went down to 16 men, as did Wigan, but they had 3 pivots controlling their attack, we had Wello and Flanagan - not to mention our back line reshuffle!

    We missed plenty of opportunities to score through our inept play with the ball, particularly in the first half. Tenacity, pride and the refusal to accept defeat won Saints the Grand Final, not a rush of blood to Ben Flower's head!

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    Most Saints fans i know went to the Grand Final not expecting to win with the crazy injuries we've had throughout the year, and going into the final without any halfbacks and with Wilkin/Lomax out who normally steps in to cover us made Wigun clear favorites.
    Yes Flower getting sent off helped us out to go on and win but they had ample enough times in the game to score but we had the heart to keep em out. Wigun had one of there youngsters playing/covering hooker and could not stop Sia scoring our first try?(not good enough who knows)
    Our Youngsters Thompson/Richards stood up to all Wigan could throw at em?

    Going back to Martins comments: I don't think Saints have to Prove anything, we are champions we were the best team from the weekly rounds from finishing top and deserved CHAMPIONS tag. Nothings hanging over us at all we've got the monkey off our backs from the 5 final losses and now injurys permitting look forward to defending our title.

    Martin is really looking forward to see how Kierons going to get on but so are all St Helens nothing new there?

    Bitter Pie springs to my mind Offiah

    COYS

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    As much as we might not like to admit it we wouldn't have won the grand final if wigan had a full compliment. We make out like Flower took out a key player but Hohaia had been ineffective at half back all year with no discernible organisation or kicking abilities, he wasn't suddenly about to turn into a half back just cos it was the grand final. I'm thrilled we won and I absolutely don't care how we did it, after all the years of pain it wouldn't have made a difference to me if we'd been playing against 8 men.

    We were the best team last year, finishing top with an injury list that would have crippled most teams. We rightly will have a target on our backs this year but we have the quality to deal with that, injuries permitting.
    Not sure I agree with that. Hohaia didn't play badly last year and without a doubt we were in a weaker position without him in that final.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    He hates Saints ( The Popular Side saw to that ) so I dismiss everything he says !

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    I can't be bothered being concerned about anything this guy says, he's just a non entity as a pundit so why bother even reading it

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    Personally I don't see a lot wrong with what he says


    "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did. That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them. SOME PEOPLE are saying that, and we'll always have people saying that

    "Saints have got a lot to prove now they are champions. They are going to be under pressure. We are now the team to beat as champions and that brings pressure

    "I am really interested in how new coach Keiron Cunningham will do this year." As are we

    He said: "To lose the title by having a player sent off will be fuel to everything they do.Only thing I can't agree with, that's not why they lost the title, albeit was a factor, we'll never know what would have happened

    "All that effort, work and preparation came to nothing last season but I expect them to do very well this year." His opinion and a fair one at that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I can't be bothered being concerned about anything this guy says, he's just a non entity as a pundit so why bother even reading it
    well said, the guy needs to put his wigan bias aside. We won the league (fact) we won the grand final (fact) he can moan and groan all he likes

    we were the best side in the league season and the best side in the play offs and history will show that.

    No amount of bleating by him and Clarke etc etc will change that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh View Post
    Has made the following comments recently

    "But former great Martin Offiah believes the doubts over Saints' title credentials will rumble on.

    He said: "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did.

    "That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them.

    "Saints have got a lot to prove now they are champions. They are going to be under pressure.

    "I am really interested in how new coach Keiron Cunningham will do this year."

    Offiah, part of a Wembley statue that will be unveiled at this year's Ladbrokes Challenge Cup final, is betting on Wigan to get revenge.

    He said: "To lose the title by having a player sent off will be fuel to everything they do.

    "All that effort, work and preparation came to nothing last season but I expect them to do very well this year."


    He must still be feeling the pain, a very bitter pie.

    comments as per http://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby-lea...Helens-critics
    Summed it up in your last sentence. Hope he feels the same this season

  13. #13
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    The best thing He ever did was to Present Longy with His 3RD Lance Todd Trophy.!!!

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    No one will ever know what the outcome of the GF would have been had both sides had 17 players for the whole game but the more people speculate the more I am grateful that I can just look at reality and know that Saints won the trophy.

    However much Wigan missed Flower, or the 17th man at least, they created enough chances to win but crucial failings on their part resulted in them being losers - for example, Farrell failing to score or provide a scoring pass following his break; Bateman knocking-on when Bowen passed poorly inside to him rather than moving the ball towards Charnley when there was space outside; Smith missing a fairly simple penalty that would have changed Saints' siege mentality/protection of a narrow lead. At the same time, each of those Wigan failings had an associated piece of heroism from Saints - Makinson's great defending of the Farrell break; the general scramble defence that forced Bowen into his double whammy; Jones's efforts to get back and then slow down the play-the-ball that led to the failed goal kick.

    Similarly, the impact that Hohaia would have had can never be evaluated as it is impossible to assess the level of creativity that he would have brought to our play. Conversely, Makinson's contributions in defence and his taking of Wello's bomb would almost certainly not have occurred had positional changes not been forced upon us. The loss of a man on the bench probably also meant that Thompson and Richards had more game time than would otherwise have been the case and also allowed LMS to play a diffent role than planned.

    The real issue is that every incident in every match has an asociated "what if/if only.." but the only thing of lasting value is what actually happened and no amount of speculation will ever change that. The likes of Offiah, however, need to speculate to earn their corn as pundits but we should remember that we are the 2014 SL Champions whatever anyone opines.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
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    I always make a point of ignoring anything Offiah says.Everything he says is laced with Wigan bias.His reaction straight after the game said everything about him.A prize *****.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I always make a point of ignoring anything Offiah says.Everything he says is laced with Wigan bias.His reaction straight after the game said everything about him.A prize *****.
    The actual facts are when people read through the past Champions of Super League it will say Champions ST Helens 2014 Runners up Wigan it won't then have a rider by the side of it saying (only because Ben Flower is a Thug though will it)
    The people I have spoken to have actually said they were made up we won after what Flower did,most sporting people with no afiliation to a team playing will go for the underdogs,when Wigan had the thug sent off to many people's minds they became the underdogs, but nobody I have spoken to even then wanted them to win.

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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    I don't give a toss. We finished as league leaders and won the GF and we are Champions for 12 months. He can have the if's , but's and maybes as it doesn't change the facts.

    The history books will show us as Champions for 2014. I certainly won't be dwelling on it bring on 2015.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Most Saints fans i know went to the Grand Final not expecting to win with the crazy injuries we've had throughout the year, and going into the final without any halfbacks and with Wilkin/Lomax out who normally steps in to cover us made Wigun clear favorites.
    Yes Flower getting sent off helped us out to go on and win but they had ample enough times in the game to score but we had the heart to keep em out. Wigun had one of there youngsters playing/covering hooker and could not stop Sia scoring our first try?(not good enough who knows)
    Our Youngsters Thompson/Richards stood up to all Wigan could throw at em?

    Going back to Martins comments: I don't think Saints have to Prove anything, we are champions we were the best team from the weekly rounds from finishing top and deserved CHAMPIONS tag. Nothings hanging over us at all we've got the monkey off our backs from the 5 final losses and now injurys permitting look forward to defending our title.

    Martin is really looking forward to see how Kierons going to get on but so are all St Helens nothing new there?

    Bitter Pie springs to my mind Offiah

    COYS
    Spot on!
    I was one thinking we had little chance before a ball was played but that opinion changed when the first tackle went in. We really were 'up for it' that day and prepared to do the very physical work needed to bully Wigan at their own game (as we have done before).
    Wigan's game plan is all about the physicality, keeping momentum forward and slowing the play of balls down.
    I think them having Flower sent off made it slightly easier for us but I honestly think we would have won the game anyway the way we 'came out of the blocks'
    I must admit though I am sick of hearing about it now though and Martin Offiah was nothing more than a fit and very fast sprinter who was playing in a competition that was well below todays standards.
    His try scoring record was awesome don't get me wrong, but he isn't in the same Wigan class as the likes of Ellery Hanley, Andy Gregory and Andy Farrell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I don't give a toss. We finished as league leaders ...
    Ah...But that was only because wigan didn't want to!

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    "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did.

    That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them"

    Does this attention seeking wannabee 'mainstream celebrity' really believe that any of the playing, coaching or management teams have any shadow of doubt 'hanging over them' over what happened last season? Finishing top and winning the GF is a fairly comprehensive way to demonstrate you have what it takes to be considered the best side in the league. On any given day, all teams can be beaten - sometimes embarrasingly - but when it absolutley came down to a test of who had the ability and desire to finish on top, Saints proved it both in the league and in the GF whilst other teams including Wigan faultered.

    "To lose the title by having a player sent off .." should read "To fail to win the title by not scoring as many points as an oppostion side missing several key players and having to put most of the team in makeshift positions...."

    The man is an irrelevant idiot and most of what he spouts (including his views on the Flower incident at the time) is headline grabbing nonsense.

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    I don't care what Offiah thinks - facts are facts, we won and are the reigning champions and will hopefully soon be adding the WCC to the trophy cabinet

    Like said above I think we were hindered just as much if not more by having Lance, having no half back and losing out on interchanges

    I suspect we would have won by many more if the Flower incident had not taken place !!

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    I missed his interview at the beginning of last season about how everyone would think that Wigan had stolen the title by injuring players with cannon ball tackles and Warrington were the rightful winners - everyone said so - and they would have had to deal with the pressure of being handed the trophy obtained by foul means.
    Obviously he would have had this interview published - and he would have been right to question how Wigan performed under pressure, the pressure was released by Flower at the worst possible time meaning that they went through another trophy-less season.

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    Saints don't have anything to prove. They've got the trophy (trophies) in their cabinet - No matter how much you want to say Saints didn't deserve it, you can't take our trophies away.

    Did the Flower sending affect the game - yes. Can we say for sure we wouldn't have won without it - no. Was it the only incident to influence who was crowned SL champions - no. There were a million incidents throughout the season, some good/some bad, that decided who ended up contesting (and winning) the grandfinal and who didn't. The Flower punch was just one.

    The reigning champions normally face a potentially stiffer challenge the following season, as other teams see them as the team to beat. If the opposition speccies want their team to replace that mentality and think we're not really up to much, then happy days.

    I for one reckon we'd have won that game anyway. It was one of those nights, just like the victories we had over Leeds, when, even though we looked disjointed, our dogged determination and sheer size up front meant we won through in the end. We'll never know, mind.

    It also baffles me how people are disregarding that players being dirty and getting sent off is part of the game and regulary effects results. (Lack of) Discipline is a massive part of the game and affects every match.

    Flower is a very good player, but like other WIgan forwards, a lot of the good things he does are powered by that ultra committed and aggressive approach. Without that massive part of their game, Wigan possibly wouldn't be at old Trafford in the first place (and they certainly wouldn't have been favourites).

    I've type all this and then I've realised...Who gives a •••• about what Offiah says.....For a start, what do wingers know about RL. Secondly, Offiah is one of those guys who's filled his time with lots and lots of self promotion. These views are just more of the same. Whether its right or not doesn't concern him, he just wants people to read it and talk about him...which we are doing.

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    Default Martin Offiah



    Has made the following comments recently

    "But former great Martin Offiah believes the doubts over Saints' title credentials will rumble on.

    He said: "Some people will still be asking if the trophy was handed to them by what Ben Flower did. It was handed to us by the players who played for us

    "That is what Saints have to live with. There is always going to be that hanging over them.

    "Saints have got a lot to prove now they are champions. Come to our trophy cabinet and you will see the trophy. What more proof do you need? They are going to be under pressure.

    "I am really interested in how new coach Keiron Cunningham will do this year."

    Offiah, part of a Wembley statue that will be unveiled at this year's Ladbrokes Challenge Cup final, is betting on Wigan to get revenge. If he wants to rid himself of his money why not donate it to charity?

    He said: "To lose the title by having a player sent off will be fuel to everything they do. Whose fault was that?

    "All that effort, work and preparation came to nothing last season but I expect them to do very well this year."


    He must still be feeling the pain, a very bitter pie.
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    I fully agree with FARTIN MARTIN god how I love Benjamin Flower I will buy the lad a pint anytime. We are the reigning champions we broke the five on the bounce sequence we are the most successful team of the true professional era.

    We could support a club who pay rent, we could support a team who have not won a championship for 60 years and think they are a big club.

    Great chairman great club no Bazdev or Rogues anymore oh happy days. Fartin Martin crawl back under.

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