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Thread: Brown out

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    He's passing the buck
    He does it in every interview.

  2. #102
    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    I can tell you why Wigan beat us,they get stuck into the opposition,defend as if their lives depended on it and have an effective attacking play or move that creates space and a overlap also their coach instills a belief and get's it across exactly what is required to represent the club..... when do I start I can tell them that for a third of Browns wage.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie's Boots View Post
    Cunningham? He's supposed to be the one coaching the forwards! No thanks! Having him there is probably part of the problem.

    I do share your concern about Walsh. I am worried, especially if the fans turn against the team, that he will want out. We are wasting his time with us.
    Luke Walsh is fortunate to have the opportunity to grace our club, not the other way around. Lets get that straight. The same goes for every other bloke running around in a Saints jersey. When the day comes that we genuinely think we're fortunate to have the likes of Walsh, then it really is time to give up. Being special away at Salford means precisely nothing.

    Cunningham as a player showed more desire, passion and will to win than almost any Saints player I've ever seen. He was arguably the biggest part of what turned Saints around from being bridesmaids to being the bride when he began his career. He rarely failed to stand up and produce a moment, whether in a defence or attack to get us going when we were up against it and it was Cunningham when asked when Warrington will get on top of us that replied 'not on my watch'. The man embodies everything good about St Helens RLFC.

    I refuse to believe that Cunningham is happy in any way, shape or form with the efforts of our lads right now. I'd love to know the ins and outs of just what is going on at the club at present but I'd be absolutely amazed if Cunningham is a part of the problem. If half of our players ran and tackled with the same desire that he did, we wouldn't be on here complaining right now.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Luke Walsh is fortunate to have the opportunity to grace our club, not the other way around. Lets get that straight. The same goes for every other bloke running around in a Saints jersey. When the day comes that we genuinely think we're fortunate to have the likes of Walsh, then it really is time to give up. Being special away at Salford means precisely nothing. Cunningham as a player showed more desire, passion and will to win than almost any Saints player I've ever seen. He was arguably the biggest part of what turned Saints around from being bridesmaids to being the bride when he began his career. He rarely failed to stand up and produce a moment, whether in a defence or attack to get us going when we were up against it and it was Cunningham when asked when Warrington will get on top of us that replied 'not on my watch'. The man embodies everything good about St Helens RLFC. I refuse to believe that Cunningham is happy in any way, shape or form with the efforts of our lads right now. I'd love to know the ins and outs of just what is going on at the club at present but I'd be absolutely amazed if Cunningham is a part of the problem. If half of our players ran and tackled with the same desire that he did, we wouldn't be on here complaining right now.
    Lots of top sportsmen fail to turn brilliance as a player into brilliance as a coach. KC was a born winner, he might be finding it hard to transpose that into his coaching? Having said that I don't believe he is the problem, if there are any coaching changes (which I don't believe there will be) he should continue in his role

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullsaint View Post
    I'm not a rugby league coach but the message is simple PLAY YOUR BEST 17 IN THEIR BEST POSITIONS!!!!!!!
    The chairman 's face had it written all over it!
    Well said Paul Wellen's!!!(post match interveiw on Sky)
    We were up against it from the start with wrong player/team selection, as we have been for many times past couple of seasons.Injuries accepted but why the hell does he starts with our best player IMO, Soliola on the bench along with Mose our biggest prop! Proved this by having to bring them both on, I think after less than 20 mins.

    Does it time and again and once again today was proof how our inadequate lightweight pack got rolled over right form the start, by the complete opposite of Wires show of aggression and strength. Only when it's too late do we start to try and come back, when we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

    Put your best 13 players on from the start in a situation where injuries are affecting key position. Sia, Mose And Wello should have started, Forster and Richards were much needed. Under performances from most but in particular Greenwood, Wilkins, LMS and Turner of course.

    Players not performing today yes, but totally Coaches fault today for me, whether team selection or getting them up for it, this was because of Brown.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Don't let Roby escape this autopsy either. He is far too passive. A leader of this club that sits back far too often when we"re struggling. People don't want to hear it it but hookers lead sides. Cunningham did it for us, McIlorum does it for Wigan, Clark does it at Cas. Where on earth is Roby when we're up against it ?
    He's busy trying to cover up the schoolboy errors on defence from his 'team mates'. That's where his energy goes, sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter soutos tash View Post
    You may be right mate but I want a coach with passion
    He's not arsed whether we win or lose and that's not good enough
    What's Daniel Anderson doing ..... Give him a bell !

    I've seen loads of poor sides at saints but this is a good side poorly coached and that is unforgivable
    Come on eamonn do the right thing get rid of disco stu and let's move on
    Anderson is back at Parramatta Eels in a director of Rugby type role.
    Like Lyon and Meninga etc he wont be coming back.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister chuffy View Post
    I suspect if we get battered by Hudds on Friday, Brown will get the boot.

    Saints badly need some motivation and spirit from somewhere.

    The players look disinterested and unwilling to pit in a performance for Brown. Its ok putting 50 on Bradford, when it came to the better teams we fail miserably.
    Yeah but it was the same under Simmons, and Potter. You CANNOT run a sporting entity letting players decide when they play and who they play for. The clearout should start with them, not the coach just yet. Isn't it ironic that the most spirited performance we have seen this year was when we had many of our 'senior' players missing? Young lads who gave their all.

    Kick out the naysayers and primadonnas - it's gone on too long. If we don't then you could bring in Craig Bellamy or Wayne Bennett and you'd see no difference,

  9. #109
    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    It's funny how KC tends to split peoples opinion on here. I have no inside info of what goes on at the club,what influence KC has or whether he just carries out Browns orders (I suspect the latter is the case). If I had the choice now of whether to give KC the job for the season and drop Brown I would simply because I'm convinced we are getting nowhere near Old Trafford at the moment. I just want the players to show some heart and a coach that knows his best team.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    I'm convinced we are getting nowhere near Old Trafford at the moment. I just want the players to show some heart and a coach that knows his best team.
    Yet with the same coach in charge at the start of the season people were saying how well we were going and talking of sweeping the board.

    The players need to pick themselves up and show they can be arsed

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintnickle View Post
    After coming home from the game today there were two glaring problems that i noticed .The first was that there didnt seem to be any aggression in the team.Lms ran in one ball in his first 10 min spell and then spent the next 40 min on the sidelines.When he came back on looked knackered and uninterested.If thats what is required of one of our senior forwards then that is a joke.We have a good youngster in savellio who is either deemed too unfit or not good enough to get a game. Compare it to wigan last night who are no better man for man than us but are prepared to go the extra mile for wane and die for the cause.Wane wouldnt put up with anyone not prepared to put their bodies on the line and fight for the cause.
    The second point is that we look so unfit compared to most teams .That was ok for the first few weeks but as teams started getting up to speed with the game we are behind found out.
    And on another note who decided to loan out ade gardener out and keep dawson who has to be the most average winger/centre about.
    And there lies one of our main problems. Brown has his favourites and the selection of LMS just proved it. He has been ill all week, so was obviously going to find it tough. My opinion of Mark Flanagan is well documented and I know he would have offered more today. Like SS said earlier, no player can be exempt from criticism today and I just wish I knew what is wrong with Sia, he was invisible today and although Dawson took some criticism from folk sat near me today, especially for not trying to go down the wing instead of cutting inside. But for me, he was our best player.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    And there lies one of our main problems. Brown has his favourites and the selection of LMS just proved it. He has been ill all week, so was obviously going to find it tough. My opinion of Mark Flanagan is well documented and I know he would have offered more today. Like SS said earlier, no player can be exempt from criticism today and I just wish I knew what is wrong with Sia, he was invisible today and although Dawson took some criticism from folk sat near me today, especially for not trying to go down the wing instead of cutting inside. But for me, he was our best player.
    Well, I always find that you are pretty accurate with info and I respect your comments so, if it is the case of picking favourites, then I completely retract my earlier statement and he bloody well should be gone. LMS is not St Helens standard, never has been. Personally I thought Dawson and Jones were the only two who shouldn't be made to walk home after that.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS View Post
    Luke Walsh is fortunate to have the opportunity to grace our club, not the other way around. Lets get that straight.
    You may think that. I disagree. Just as I would disagree with you if we were talking about Sean Long or any other player whose presence on the pitch I have enjoyed watching. In the short time Luke Walsh has been with us, while he has his weaknesses and he is no Cooper Cronk, I have loved some of the plays he has put on for himself and for others. When a player can make a wonderful pass, a cheeky try, kick 40/20s exactly when they're needed or whatever, I feel it is a privilege to have them play at our club.

    Cunningham as a player showed more desire, passion and will to win than almost any Saints player I've ever seen. He was arguably the biggest part of what turned Saints around from being bridesmaids to being the bride when he began his career. He rarely failed to stand up and produce a moment, whether in a defence or attack to get us going when we were up against it and it was Cunningham when asked when Warrington will get on top of us that replied 'not on my watch'. The man embodies everything good about St Helens RLFC.
    However, it would appear, in his capacity as our forwards coach (and it has been reported by the club that he is taking responsibility for our forwards) that he has not been able to instil that same passion or commitment or whatever you want to call it into our forward pack. That's his responsibility as forwards coach, along with teaching them various skills I'm sure. Therefore, he IS part - and I did say part - of the problem, since our forwards are most definitely part of our problem.

    Being a great player does not necessarily convert into being a great coach.

    And I haven't once questioned Cunningham as a player or as a committed Saints player so please don't attempt to corrupt what I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    And there lies one of our main problems. Brown has his favourites and the selection of LMS just proved it. He has been ill all week, so was obviously going to find it tough. My opinion of Mark Flanagan is well documented and I know he would have offered more today. Like SS said earlier, no player can be exempt from criticism today and I just wish I knew what is wrong with Sia, he was invisible today and although Dawson took some criticism from folk sat near me today, especially for not trying to go down the wing instead of cutting inside. But for me, he was our best player.
    Not really going to comment on the game as I expected what happened today. I despise LMS. A complete and utter yellow belly in the big games. If I were a Wigan fan/player he would be the first name I'd look for on the team sheet and take comfort in seeing his name in the pack. He's soft as shit and disappears the moment he game gets tough. Should get him on the first virgin pendolino back to London. Bully victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
    Well, I always find that you are pretty accurate with info and I respect your comments so, if it is the case of picking favourites, then I completely retract my earlier statement and he bloody well should be gone. LMS is not St Helens standard, never has been. Personally I thought Dawson and Jones were the only two who shouldn't be made to walk home after that.
    Let me just say that I have no proof that he has favourites. That comment was made purely on the fact that not many fans see what he brings to the side, but yet he makes the 17 every week. I fully understand why he picks Jones and has stated that he is one of the first names on his team sheet, but the likes of LMS are not good enough at present and I say at present, because in fits and starts we have seen it. Brown really has his work cut out this week, because the Huddersfield game has become massive now.
    He was all for Hudds showing aggression when he coached there, yet today we have a little bit of push and shove, but when the Wire players were looking like getting a little more serious, our forwards backed off, can you imagine Wigan or Leeds doing that ? Far too often today we played tick rugby and successfully made an average side look like world beaters.

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    I'm just discusted with today's game. I don't even know where to start. Never been so frustrated watching a game in my life. What was with all the panic passes and silly offloades, I'm sorry but browns tactics just aren't working. I'd love to know what's said behind closed doors

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Yet with the same coach in charge at the start of the season people were saying how well we were going and talking of sweeping the board.

    The players need to pick themselves up and show they can be arsed
    The stand off situation sums Brown up perfectly. In the off season he was saying how Lance would benefit from playing alongside a proper 7 in Walsh fair enough THEN the two friendlies against Batley and Wigan Turner is at 6 OK it looks as if he'll be the choice,THEN he says how Wheeler is the best 6 at the club and plays him in the first league game. Wheeler picked up a injury so he brought Lance back in no problem THEN when Wheeler came back he was at centre with Lance still at 6. THEN came the Leeds game where Wilkin was at 6 and Lance came back the week after,couple all this with him playing Wello/Wilkin at half back last season instead of Lance says one thing to me....Brown hasn't got a clue.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by parrsaint View Post
    Anderson is back at Parramatta Eels in a director of Rugby type role.
    Like Lyon and Meninga etc he wont be coming back.
    Thought he was in charge of the Refs in Aus.
    On the Back foot looking for the front one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrass View Post
    Thought he was in charge of the Refs in Aus.
    He was until a few months ago. He's now back at the Eels.
    http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l...018-2vqwo.html

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    Anderson isn't the answer. Had control of arguably the best ever British club rugby side in 2006 and we generally played sterile rugby and were found wanting thereafter. Wigan were shit at the time and in bits so it's easy to look through rose tinted glasses.

    Stephen Kearney would put the fear of god into the slackers at the moment (failed at parra but who hasn't.). General problem is that all the good coaches are contracted up.

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    Default bad performance ??

    there is no doubt that today was a bad result, most teams we play seem to come out firing on all cylinders and very quickly racking up points against us, this can be rectified when playing lower ranked sides but the better sides defend better keeping our scoring to a minimum and giving themselves the opportunity to score more from our mistakes. i think today was a matter of warringtons play going spectacularly well and ours spectacularly bad, there were some excellent plays from saints and if a few of the plays had come off, the result would have been in our favour ,warrington were getting very nervous at one stage as we started to post points, as i said earlier we gave ourselves too much to do.
    after all the analysis and lynch mob mentality we are still second in the table and i am sure the necessary adjustments can and will be made to rectify what is not as disastrous situation as it appears, all players back, playing in there proper positions and the right motivation will see the results come and see us in the mix at the end of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisd View Post
    there is no doubt that today was a bad result, most teams we play seem to come out firing on all cylinders and very quickly racking up points against us, this can be rectified when playing lower ranked sides but the better sides defend better keeping our scoring to a minimum and giving themselves the opportunity to score more from our mistakes. i think today was a matter of warringtons play going spectacularly well and ours spectacularly bad, there were some excellent plays from saints and if a few of the plays had come off, the result would have been in our favour ,warrington were getting very nervous at one stage as we started to post points, as i said earlier we gave ourselves too much to do.
    after all the analysis and lynch mob mentality we are still second in the table and i am sure the necessary adjustments can and will be made to rectify what is not as disastrous situation as it appears, all players back, playing in there proper positions and the right motivation will see the results come and see us in the mix at the end of the season.
    We've been battered by Wigan, threw a game at Widnes and were outplayed at Leeds. We have now been trounced by warrington in a big weekend. Wake up,and smell the coffee. When the club captain publicly condemns the attitude of his colleagues, it's not about making'adjustments to rectify the situation.' Much more than that I am afraid.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    We've been battered by Wigan, threw a game at Widnes and were outplayed at Leeds. We have now been trounced by warrington in a big weekend. Wake up,and smell the coffee. When the club captain publicly condemns the attitude of his colleagues, it's not about making'adjustments to rectify the situation.' Much more than that I am afraid.
    That shows what problems we must have,I don't ever recall a player especially a captain being that brutally honest in an interview.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Anderson isn't the answer. Had control of arguably the best ever British club rugby side in 2006 and we generally played sterile rugby and were found wanting thereafter. Wigan were shit at the time and in bits so it's easy to look through rose tinted glasses.

    Stephen Kearney would put the fear of god into the slackers at the moment (failed at parra but who hasn't.). General problem is that all the good coaches are contracted up.
    Anderson would be far better than Brown but the reality is he won't ever be back at Saints as the coach. I would argue that the real sterile rugby came in under Potter. At least Anderson still brought us Challenge Cup success in his last year.

    Even if Brown doesn't get the push before the seasons end, I would think that a new coach will be here for the 2015 season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisd View Post
    after all the analysis and lynch mob mentality we are still second in the table
    Brown referred to our league position in his post match interview too. This attitude frustrates the f*ck out of me. Not only would we have been TOP today had we actually bothered turning up (and let's be honest here, Warrington were not exactly setting the world alight) and who knows maybe even winning, and aiming for top today was exactly the attitude we should have taken into the game, but if we keep playing as we have been playing against teams below us (which Warrington are) then how long do you think we will be in second? Another loss and we'll be down to, what, fourth? Fifth? How soon before we are out of the play offs? We've lost four of the last six games we have played.

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