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Thread: Stadium Watch 11

  1. #101
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    2007 when the application for the stadium was submitted the design and access statement stated

    "The architecture of the stadium is very much that of two differing elevations with the south, part east and part west being enclosed and the north, part east and part west being much more open sided."

    From the very outset what you see now is the general idea. In fact the current stadium we have is an improvement on the original design. It was initially designed to incorporate a timber and metal fence. There was to be a steel fence with wooden turnstiles which was revised in 2010 and the 4m high brick wall we see today was implemented.

    "Where not enclosed by the metal cladding the supporting columns and a bespoke fence system define the boundary of the stadium between the points of entry
    into the stadium"

    The idea of extra cladding was also submitted to the council and approved back in 2011. The problem is the cladding, which is the only possible structural option is perforated which means its not going to be the best solution in the world. The best coverage you can get is about 50% and the cladding itself is not able to reach the roof so a decent sized gap at the top means that the conditions will not greatly improve.

    The key problem is that the actual solution is not worth the expense. The only way to truly solve the issue is the redo the roof, and unless someone has around 10 million to rebuild the stadium then its not going to happen. The club are not going to openly come out and say 'Right we cocked up, just put up with it as its better than KR', they will just continue to have horrendously bad communication with the fans and pray that they will kept coming regardless for the team.

    The ground is not going to put me off going, but it does annoy me to think that we had this fantastic opportunity to create a lasting new future for the club and to think they only got 1/4 of the design correct is shocking. I was thinking the other day, I don't know if it would be structurally acceptable, but maybe with fewer changes to the ground could incorporate a similar roof to that seen at Gold Coast Robina Stadium where they use a synthetic roofing which is a 'PTFE coated woven fibre glass fabric'. This would keep the idea of a halo look with a the suspended roof and give the club interesting lighting possibilities against the fabric protection. That's my idea anyway

  2. #102
    In The South Stand Sadfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_saintsfan07 View Post
    2007 when the application for the stadium was submitted the design and access statement stated

    "the architecture of the stadium is very much that of two differing elevations with the south, part east and part west being enclosed and the north, part east and part west being much more open sided."

    from the very outset what you see now is the general idea. In fact the current stadium we have is an improvement on the original design. It was initially designed to incorporate a timber and metal fence. There was to be a steel fence with wooden turnstiles which was revised in 2010 and the 4m high brick wall we see today was implemented.

    "where not enclosed by the metal cladding the supporting columns and a bespoke fence system define the boundary of the stadium between the points of entry
    into the stadium"

    the idea of extra cladding was also submitted to the council and approved back in 2011. The problem is the cladding, which is the only possible structural option is perforated which means its not going to be the best solution in the world. The best coverage you can get is about 50% and the cladding itself is not able to reach the roof so a decent sized gap at the top means that the conditions will not greatly improve.

    The key problem is that the actual solution is not worth the expense. The only way to truly solve the issue is the redo the roof, and unless someone has around 10 million to rebuild the stadium then its not going to happen. The club are not going to openly come out and say 'right we cocked up, just put up with it as its better than kr', they will just continue to have horrendously bad communication with the fans and pray that they will kept coming regardless for the team.

    The ground is not going to put me off going, but it does annoy me to think that we had this fantastic opportunity to create a lasting new future for the club and to think they only got 1/4 of the design correct is shocking. I was thinking the other day, i don't know if it would be structurally acceptable, but maybe with fewer changes to the ground could incorporate a similar roof to that seen at gold coast robina stadium where they use a synthetic roofing which is a 'ptfe coated woven fibre glass fabric'. This would keep the idea of a halo look with a the suspended roof and give the club interesting lighting possibilities against the fabric protection. That's my idea anyway

    ^^^^ this!

  3. #103
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    Firstly, the idea of a "Halo effect roof" at the cost of keeping dry and warm is frankly stupid beyond belief. The purpose of having a roof is to keep the fans as dry and protectected from the elements as is possible. The roof fails miserably to perform its primary purpose.It also fails to enhance the looks of the stadium because it looks unfinished . In short its a total cockup and an espensive one at that,
    The rose coloured spectacles brigade can pretend like it if they want to.They can also pretend they are nice and warm and dry if they want to. They can pat Eammon on the back and tell him well done for building a white elephant if they want to. The reality is that its a shambles and an opportunity missed to significantly increase our fanbase. The club has treated its own supporters with contempt by its attitude to this issue and its poor communication. They will come to regret it.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintlysid View Post
    Firstly, the idea of a "Halo effect roof" at the cost of keeping dry and warm is frankly stupid beyond belief. The purpose of having a roof is to keep the fans as dry and protectected from the elements as is possible. The roof fails miserably to perform its primary purpose.It also fails to enhance the looks of the stadium because it looks unfinished . In short its a total cockup and an espensive one at that,
    The rose coloured spectacles brigade can pretend like it if they want to.They can also pretend they are nice and warm and dry if they want to. They can pat Eammon on the back and tell him well done for building a white elephant if they want to. The reality is that its a shambles and an opportunity missed to significantly increase our fanbase. The club has treated its own supporters with contempt by its attitude to this issue and its poor communication. They will come to regret it.
    ^^^^^^ this!

  5. #105
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    ^^^^^^ this!
    Seconded.

    I'm still waiting for the actual reasoning behing the club doing this.

    "Why was that 3D image showing the ground fully enclosed used by the club to sell season tickets if it wasn't intended to look that way?"

    And as RobSaints07 alludes to in his closing paragraphs, it was a total cock up and the club's communication problems are there for all to see. As Sadfish responded with "^^^^ this", one can only assume that he is in full agreement with this, in which case we could have saved a lot of bother if he'd just said that ages ago.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Everyone who is disappointed with the finished stadium, have total justification in my eyes. A few have already stated that it was the 3D images that sold the new stadium to them. I know that if I had gone to the meetings and the club had tried to sell the idea of the stadium as it stands, then they would have been told where to go. Instead we were shown images of a stunning looking ground, but delivered something that is not remotely like what we were promised, and I stress, promised. I've no doubt we would get cold in the 3D imaged stadium, but not as we do at LP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    "Why was that 3D image showing the ground fully enclosed used by the club to sell season tickets if it wasn't intended to look that way?"
    They had paid for it. I think that is the only reason they used the 3D model. If you look back to the original 3D image that was produced of the external view it cleverly blocked all open parts of the stadium. They created the big display stands featuring the internal 'cock up' image and had to use them as they had paid for them. The thing is, its not half surprising. The club is absolutely useless come marketing.

    For example, the other day the signed naming rights for the North Stand that come into effect on Friday. Does anyone actually know about it? No. The fact that the company that has bought the rights is an Electronic Cigarette company might have something to do with it. So at least all the moaners in the North stand are now the 'Totally Wicked' moaners.

    The club have managed to achieve something in the economic climate that should be acknowledged. I know of people that are regulars now at Saints, even just on match days but for functions and forums that would never have been interested before. That should be congratulated. But the fact that all of the great stuff that happens at saints is restricted to the one 'complete' stand.

    In a perfect world the club will use the corporate facilities to bring in new investment into the club that can eventually fix the debacle that is the roof. But for now all I'm bothered about is them going getting a proper half back.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    Everyone who is disappointed with the finished stadium, have total justification in my eyes. A few have already stated that it was the 3D images that sold the new stadium to them. I know that if I had gone to the meetings and the club had tried to sell the idea of the stadium as it stands, then they would have been told where to go. Instead we were shown images of a stunning looking ground, but delivered something that is not remotely like what we were promised, and I stress, promised. I've no doubt we would get cold in the 3D imaged stadium, but not as we do at LP.
    To be honest thought. If back when the plans where released and the club was totally honest that the wall of our stadium would be an iron fence. We would have still bought 5 year season tickets as it was what needed to happen. The problem is they where not transparent. In my opinion you by a season ticket for the team, not a seat.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_SaintsFan07 View Post
    To be honest thought. If back when the plans where released and the club was totally honest that the wall of our stadium would be an iron fence. We would have still bought 5 year season tickets as it was what needed to happen. The problem is they where not transparent. In my opinion you by a season ticket for the team, not a seat.
    I see where you are coming from. But I bought my ticket for the seat, to watch the team. Transparent or not, the club were not honest, and although that is a strong term, for me they were dis honest, and the so called info in the New year is still to come. Even if there is nothing else to report, just say so. It has been quoted on here that there are far more pressing things for them to be dealing with. Then again, tell us, inform us of what is going on. Stop just expecting us to cough up money, every week, every season.

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    I agree with all this. Its about the team yes but its also about expecting the images displayed by the club of the new ground to be accurate. The club was less than honest in describing it as fully enclosed. As someone has already stated, had the club said it would be open on three sides, and shown images of it as it looks from peasley cross road they would have found it much tougher to sell tickets. Currently though its more about the clubs avoidance of its responsibility and its lack of communcication. It will drive many away from supporting the club if it continues. I cant understand those people on here who are happy to settle for a second rate ground with so many shortcomings. If They are happy to settle for mediocrity fine but Im not and niether are a growing number of others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    I see where you are coming from. But I bought my ticket for the seat, to watch the team. Transparent or nt, the club were not honest, and although that is a strong term, for me they were dis honest, and the so called info in the New year is still to come. Even if there is nothing else to report, just say so. It has been quoted on here that there are far more pressing things for them to be dealing with. Then again, tell us, inform us of what is going on. Stop just expecting us to cough up money, every week, every season.

  11. #111
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    Anyway there is a fans forum later this month, surely the manaagement will put everyones minds at ease about anything worrying them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintlysid View Post
    The rose coloured spectacles brigade can pretend like it if they want to.They can also pretend they are nice and warm and dry if they want to.
    They probably sit in the south stand, in which case they will indeed be nice and warm and dry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie's Boots View Post
    They probably sit in the south stand, in which case they will indeed be nice and warm and dry.
    Talking of which I was surprised to see Sadfish agree with Rob-Saintsfan07's comments which included;

    "......it does annoy me to think that we had this fantastic opportunity to create a lasting new future for the club and to think they only got 1/4 of the design correct is shocking."

    Looking forward to hearing the next announcement about the next announcement - probably just ahead of the forum. I wont be going but would interested to know the answer to the question "Has anybody else ever spent £30 million on a stadium which incorporated such a cock-up of a design that it can't even be rectified, despite being headlined as the best Rugby stadium in either code"

    Maybe people should just post their open questions on here as they wont be answered at any forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windle Lad View Post
    Maybe people should just post their open questions on here as they wont be answered at any forum.
    Good idea,

    1) Who original proposed the idea of an open backed stadium in the North West of England?
    2) Why the hell did you think it was a good idea?
    3) How much to reconfigure the roof to allow full cladding?

    That should get them started

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    Lets 'Ellard' 'Clegg' 'Bromilow' 'Kay' Sutcliffe' 'pickavance' etc etc back they had a ground designed like the new brighton stadium. They were light years ahead of everyelse but sadly they left the club. I wish they were still at saints i'd feel a lot better with those pro's in charge, than mcmannus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarava View Post
    Lets 'Ellard' 'Clegg' 'Bromilow' 'Kay' Sutcliffe' 'pickavance' etc etc back they had a ground designed like the new brighton stadium. They were light years ahead of everyelse but sadly they left the club. I wish they were still at saints i'd feel a lot better with those pro's in charge, than mcmannus.
    I do hope thats a poor attempt at a troll

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarava View Post
    Lets 'Ellard' 'Clegg' 'Bromilow' 'Kay' Sutcliffe' 'pickavance' etc etc back they had a ground designed like the new brighton stadium. They were light years ahead of everyelse but sadly they left the club. I wish they were still at saints i'd feel a lot better with those pro's in charge, than mcmannus.
    I was having a bad day until i saw this post.......................Remember Anthony Newley singing 'What kind of fool am I'??

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    You all do seem to be missing my point, i've said it all along that i'm quoting facts. The plans, the statements, the money, the halo.

    My own opinion is and i've stated this all along is that it needs finishing, that it is different than the 3d artists impression.

    My main problem is at what cost?

    I do understand why people are unhappy, but is cladding really so high on the list of priorities considering 1/4 the old ground was completely open to the elements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish View Post
    You all do seem to be missing my point, i've said it all along that i'm quoting facts. The plans, the statements, the money, the halo.

    My own opinion is and i've stated this all along is that it needs finishing, that it is different than the 3d artists impression.

    My main problem is at what cost?

    I do understand why people are unhappy, but is cladding really so high on the list of priorities considering 1/4 the old ground was completely open to the elements?
    It is when after spending circa £30m on a brand new stadium heralded as "the best purpose built rugby stadium of either code".

    The fact remains that fans are still open to the elements and on rainy days (every home game) water seeps onto the concourse and the wind whistles in. Is that fan comfort? KR was KR, we knew it was a dump, it was archaic. If we had told everyone that listened that it was the best purpose built rugby stadium in either code then you would have a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    It is when after spending circa £30m on a brand new stadium heralded as "the best purpose built rugby stadium of either code".

    The fact remains that fans are still open to the elements and on rainy days (every home game) water seeps onto the concourse and the wind whistles in. Is that fan comfort? KR was KR, we knew it was a dump, it was archaic. If we had told everyone that listened that it was the best purpose built rugby stadium in either code then you would have a point.
    So what do you propose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish View Post
    So what do you propose?
    It's clear that we have run out of money and have no intention of finishing it.

    I want the club to come out and tell us what's going on instead of announcing that there will be further announcements and then none forthcoming.

    New Year we were told. Technically I guess that includes up to Dec 31st but I stopped wishing people a Happy New Year at the end of the first week of Jan.

    It's a disastrous attempt at communication once more and another one to chalk on the list of cock ups to go with deliveries from China, wrong size soldiers benevolent fund shirts etc.

    Dress it up how you want, we are run by a bunch of amateurs. McManus has been conspicuous by his silence over this. Happy to take 5 year ST deals of course but in actual fact they couldn't give a s**t about the match going fan.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    It's clear that we have run out of money and have no intention of finishing it.

    I want the club to come out and tell us what's going on instead of announcing that there will be further announcements and then none forthcoming.

    New Year we were told. Technically I guess that includes up to Dec 31st but I stopped wishing people a Happy New Year at the end of the first week of Jan.

    It's a disastrous attempt at communication once more and another one to chalk on the list of cock ups to go with deliveries from China, wrong size soldiers benevolent fund shirts etc.

    Dress it up how you want, we are run by a bunch of amateurs. McManus has been conspicuous by his silence over this. Happy to take 5 year ST deals of course but in actual fact they couldn't give a s**t about the match going fan.
    Will a statement saying it's not going to happen change anything? Are you proposing a board change? What are you proposing are the other options?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish View Post
    Will a statement saying it's not going to happen change anything? Are you proposing a board change? What are you proposing are the other options?
    Of course it will help. It will stop the people who treat Eamon as a demi God telling all who will listen to trust him.

    I don't care who is on the board as long as they tell the truth and stop lying to the people that matter - the fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Of course it will help. It will stop the people who treat Eamon as a demi God telling all who will listen to trust him.

    I don't care who is on the board as long as they tell the truth and stop lying to the people that matter - the fans.
    So you are not really that bothered about the cladding either?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish View Post
    So you are not really that bothered about the cladding either?
    Yes I am. We have been led up the proverbial garden path. I had a ST last year in the North Stand and spent 90% of the games huddled against the wind on the back row.

    No one bothered to tell me that the South Stand was fully clad and at the same price. The 3D images that I looked at shown it fully clad.

    As I have said before the East Stand looks ridiculous and unfinished when you drive past. It is such a disappointment compared to the excitement I felt when it was being built.

    It's pretty obvious from my posts that the lack of cladding greatly irks me. It's just people like yourself that can see no wrong with anything the club do.

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