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Thread: Nfl 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Hey guys as you know Im an NFL newbie but loving the sport please stick with me Im a quick learner, what is a franchise player, I know roughly how the drafts work but keep hearing the commentators say they should make xy a franchise player???

    Thanks
    Some (not all) teams use the franchise tag for one player who is about to become a free agent. It guarantees that player will be paid no less than the average of the top 5 earners on the team and prevents them from entering the free agency market. Each team can only have one, and each tag only lasts for one year. A player doesn't need to accept it, but it guarantees them to be well paid the following year, and also allows teams to sort out salary cap issues and maybe hold off having to sign the player to a huge new contract for a year in certain years when they have alot of contracts to sign and are close to the cap.

    If you have 2 or 3 star players out of contract it is beneficial to have one of them as a franchise player and focus on signing the other two players, whilst guaranteeing the FP a good wage. The following year you can then try and sign the FP to a new deal and maybe put another player on the tag.

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    Thanks guys, does the FP still count towards the cap?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Thanks guys, does the FP still count towards the cap?
    Yes. Some clubs can't use it on players they would like to as it would take them over the cap. The main reason teams use it is so they can buy themselves a year to make that player a bigger offer, if they have 'bigger' contract issues to deal with at the time.

    If Player A signs a new deal for $10m a year and Player B signs for $12m a year, Player C may want $14m a year and a long term deal. If the club can't afford it they can put Player C as the FP and pay him the top 5 average and keep under the cap, keeping the player for a year and not having to worry about the contract for another 12 months when maybe they'll have more cap room.

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    The term also has a separate contractual definition within the National Football League. Any NFL team can designate a single player as its franchise player and therefore restrict the player from entering a free agency. In return, the team must pay the player a premium salary. The NFL requires that a franchise player be paid at least the average of the top 5 players in the league at his position, or 120% of his previous year's salary, whichever is greater. The franchise player status lasts for only 1 year and can be renewed, but if not renewed the player is granted unrestricted free agency.

    In practice, many teams do not utilize the franchise tag; in 2008, only 12 of 32 NFL teams had a tagged franchise player. The tag, or the threat of using the tag, can be used as a negotiating tactic by the team to convince a player to sign a long-term deal with the same team. The player's alternative is to take a single highly-paid year and then free agency. The player's next contract as a free agent will depend on how the player performs in the single year, and some players may decide to take the more certain long-term deal up front.

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    As for my Broncos, we absolutely destroyed Carolina. Von Miller is an absolute beast, hes the best defensive player in the NFL by my reckoning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    As for my Broncos, we absolutely destroyed Carolina. Von Miller is an absolute beast, hes the best defensive player in the NFL by my reckoning.
    As you may or may not know I’m a Carolina fan and last night was as poor a performance I’ve seen from an O-line that I can remember. Von Miller is a monster player but we pretty much bent over and let him have his go at us with little to no argument. But it wasn’t just Miller, 7 sacks from 6 different players highlights just how poor we were in protecting the passer. Cam made some incredibly stupid choices, the pick 6 in particular but he was always scrambling and was afforded no protection at all.

    It’s annoying that going into the season we felt sure our Offense would be more than capable and to give us a chance of making play offs our defence would need to improve massively. Our defence has stepped up, despite tow big injuries to key men (Beason & Gamble) we’re looking much stronger, Hardy & Johnson are impressing and Keuchly looks a talent for me. Offensively though we’re not at the races at all, rushing is garbage and Cam is having a slump which I guess was kind of inevitable. Steve Smith isn’t as much of a threat as he was last season and beyond him our WE’s aren’t really firing. Greg Olsen has been our best thing in attack and still we don’t use him anywhere near enough.

    Considering I only started to follow the Panthers a year or so ago it’s surprising how quickly it has took hold and I’m getting really frustrated by them when I thought it’d take much longer to get a connection to a particular team like that.

    Here’s a question now though – given that we’re 2-7 and the play off boat has long since sailed what is to stop us just taking it easy now to give us a higher drafting position? Is there something in place to prevent that other than player pride?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I already spoke to you about that in #41. I am well aware of Tannehills pros and cons, I watched him a lot last season and already told you I think he'll be a good NFL QB. He wasn't a receiver for two and a half years at A&M because nobody knew he could play at QB. He battled for the QB job three times and lost out, only getting the job fully in his senior year. Manziel is there as a No.1 starter already and putting up numbers Seniors would be proud of at College level. Tannehill is a good QB, his Senior year at A&M was a very good season, he put up great numbers and I always thought he'd do well at NFL level. Manziel at this stage of his career is as good if not better than him though, IMO.
    Indeed you did. You'll know far more re College football than myself, I don't get ESPN America so don't see any of it.

    Funnily enough after me praising him, Tannehill was absolutely diabolical yesterday. His worst performance of the season, he was terrible, about as bad as it gets but he's a rookie and there'll be ups and downs. He was actually benched by Philbin yesterday, as was Reggie Bush. The biggest thing to come from yesterday is that Miami are now well aware of their place. We are capable of competing and playing well but we really have to find some weapons for us on offense this off season. Teams are figuring our basic offense out and killing us at present. I also have major doubts about our play calling from Sherman on offense. Tannehill proved earlier in the year, particularly at Arizona, that he is capable of putting big numbers up and is also accurate on the long bomb so why we are stuck with consistent short to medium play calls, especially when down by 3/4 scores in the 3rd is beyond me. His obsession with the quick slant is infuriating. Seriously, even I could call what was coming and I'm damn sure if I can do it, then an NFL defense isn't having trouble seeing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    As you may or may not know I’m a Carolina fan and last night was as poor a performance I’ve seen from an O-line that I can remember. Von Miller is a monster player but we pretty much bent over and let him have his go at us with little to no argument. But it wasn’t just Miller, 7 sacks from 6 different players highlights just how poor we were in protecting the passer. Cam made some incredibly stupid choices, the pick 6 in particular but he was always scrambling and was afforded no protection at all.

    It’s annoying that going into the season we felt sure our Offense would be more than capable and to give us a chance of making play offs our defence would need to improve massively. Our defence has stepped up, despite tow big injuries to key men (Beason & Gamble) we’re looking much stronger, Hardy & Johnson are impressing and Keuchly looks a talent for me. Offensively though we’re not at the races at all, rushing is garbage and Cam is having a slump which I guess was kind of inevitable. Steve Smith isn’t as much of a threat as he was last season and beyond him our WE’s aren’t really firing. Greg Olsen has been our best thing in attack and still we don’t use him anywhere near enough.

    Considering I only started to follow the Panthers a year or so ago it’s surprising how quickly it has took hold and I’m getting really frustrated by them when I thought it’d take much longer to get a connection to a particular team like that.

    Here’s a question now though – given that we’re 2-7 and the play off boat has long since sailed what is to stop us just taking it easy now to give us a higher drafting position? Is there something in place to prevent that other than player pride?
    Nothing at all. Indianapolis basically tanked their season to secure Andrew Luck last year, nothing the NFL could do about it.

    Miami had a 'suck for Luck' campaign ongoing before going 6-3 in the final 9 weeks of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    Nothing at all. Indianapolis basically tanked their season to secure Andrew Luck last year, nothing the NFL could do about it.

    Miami had a 'suck for Luck' campaign ongoing before going 6-3 in the final 9 weeks of the season.
    Was at the Indy 500 earlier this year and the whole of Indianapolis was 'Luck' crazy! From what I've seen so far - they have every right to be excited. He playsa like a 5yr pro. Did a Colts stadium tour also - boy, Langtree Park has some way to go to match that place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    Nothing at all. Indianapolis basically tanked their season to secure Andrew Luck last year, nothing the NFL could do about it.

    Miami had a 'suck for Luck' campaign ongoing before going 6-3 in the final 9 weeks of the season.
    Gray may be the one to answer this but what outstanding talents are there lined up form the draft this year? Any top notch WR's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    Gray may be the one to answer this but what outstanding talents are there lined up form the draft this year? Any top notch WR's?
    I've actually looked at this as WR is one of Miami's probable early round picks in the Draft. Its considered a decent class of WR but not brilliant.

    The top prospect seems to be Keenan Allen, type him in that well known site and have a look. Big, strong, quick and a good route runner. Looks a good prospect, expected to go top 15. The other WR expected to go top 20 is Justin Hunter, similar mould to Allen.

    Then the best others seem to be DeAndre Hopkins and Robert Woods.

    I want Miami to draft TE Tyler Eifert from Notre Dame. We'll pick around 19 I think and I expect both Allen and Hunter to be gone then. We desperately need offensive weapons, particularly a #1 WR and seam threatening TE. Eifert is a genuine threat in the passing game and although high for a TE pick, would immediately upgrade our offense as I'm not sure there is any value in picking Woods/Hopkins at circa 19/20. However, we have two 2nd round picks. My guess is we go CB in the first and either move back up for Eifert or hope he slides to our 2nd round pick where we pick at 11 I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post

    Here’s a question now though – given that we’re 2-7 and the play off boat has long since sailed what is to stop us just taking it easy now to give us a higher drafting position? Is there something in place to prevent that other than player pride?
    It doesn't happen, it'd be all well and good tanking the season and getting a higher draft pick, but the coach and half the players may well find themselves out of a job, which means every win counts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    It doesn't happen, it'd be all well and good tanking the season and getting a higher draft pick, but the coach and half the players may well find themselves out of a job, which means every win counts
    Would it not be agreed though within an organisation that they were to focus on getting a better draft pick and not going all out to get the wins on the board and so any poor results would be accepted so to speak?

    Personally I want to see my team win and to me it looks like the only way to really turn a team around through the draft is by taking a top notch QB - this isn't going to be on our agenda so i'd imagine there's only so much improvement we can take directly from a draft, or at least more or less guaranteed improvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    Here’s a question now though – given that we’re 2-7 and the play off boat has long since sailed what is to stop us just taking it easy now to give us a higher drafting position? Is there something in place to prevent that other than player pride?
    There's nothing technically there to stop any team not trying to win I suppose. But teams invariably don't go easy in those situations. Everyone in Indianapolis wanted to win the 'Luck Bowl' last season but at 0-13 they did end up winning 2 of their last 3 when maybe they could have given up. Coaches don't want to tarnish their reputation over getting the first draft pick, and players don't want to be associated with having the worst record in the league if they can help it. On top of that, administrators and owners are very aware that in certain markets ticket sales could be badly affected by having a terrible season. In areas like Jacksonville people get out of the habit of going to games and never come back, regardless of draft picks. It results in them playing infront of half empty stadiums and having to move home games to Wembley in order to make money and reduce season ticket costs for fans. At the end of the day one bad season may be worth it for some teams if it gives them a Luck type player, but in most years a player like that isn't available and the damage done to certain franchises for a 2-14, 3-13 type could be lasting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    Would it not be agreed though within an organisation that they were to focus on getting a better draft pick and not going all out to get the wins on the board and so any poor results would be accepted so to speak?

    Personally I want to see my team win and to me it looks like the only way to really turn a team around through the draft is by taking a top notch QB - this isn't going to be on our agenda so i'd imagine there's only so much improvement we can take directly from a draft, or at least more or less guaranteed improvement.
    If you look at Carolina though, here we have an expansion franchise that has only existed since 1995, has a losing record in it's history and has made one Super Bowl. It is basically still trying to leave it's mark on the NFL and establish it's identity and culture. Now ticket sales are not an issue there, they are in a big catchment area so no worries about a Jacksonville type situation. But on the field Carolina have an image of being mediocre, of being also-rans. I have been an NFL fan for nearly 25 years so I've been a fan for the entirety of the Panthers existence. They were pretty good for the first five years making a Super Bowl, but since then it's just been average. I don't get excited thinking about that franchise, about watching them play and I don't think of them as an NFL power at all.

    I don't say any of this to denigrate your team, but to make a point. The more a team struggles (and especially when that team has no real history) an image settles upon them. That is what is maybe happening to Carolina now. They've only just added Newton as a first choice pick in 2011. That 2010 season cost John Fox and most of his coaching team their jobs. If two years later we're back with Carolina having the First Pick in 2013 it would just emphasise how badly you were doing. The image starts to set, the thoughts in alot of peoples minds begins to stick. Carolina don't want that, their owners don't want that, their fans don't want that, and the players don't want to be associated with a team that is so bad it gets the First Draft pick for 2 out of 3 years.

    So, teams try to win games! If you are Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, Denver or New England then 2 or 3 bad years isn't going to hurt too much, because those teams are riddled with history and identity and can handle a bit of adversity without it affecting their reputation. Look at SF last season, they'd struggled for a while but people always knew they'd be back. People still associate the 49ers with Montana, Rice and Young, and so they can have bad seasons and still have a good reputation. The likes of Carolina can't as yet, and I think that will stop you 'throwing' any games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    If you look at Carolina though, here we have an expansion franchise that has only existed since 1995, has a losing record in it's history and has made one Super Bowl. It is basically still trying to leave it's mark on the NFL and establish it's identity and culture. Now ticket sales are not an issue there, they are in a big catchment area so no worries about a Jacksonville type situation. But on the field Carolina have an image of being mediocre, of being also-rans. I have been an NFL fan for nearly 25 years so I've been a fan for the entirety of the Panthers existence. They were pretty good for the first five years making a Super Bowl, but since then it's just been average. I don't get excited thinking about that franchise, about watching them play and I don't think of them as an NFL power at all.

    I don't say any of this to denigrate your team, but to make a point. The more a team struggles (and especially when that team has no real history) an image settles upon them. That is what is maybe happening to Carolina now. They've only just added Newton as a first choice pick in 2011. That 2010 season cost John Fox and most of his coaching team their jobs. If two years later we're back with Carolina having the First Pick in 2013 it would just emphasise how badly you were doing. The image starts to set, the thoughts in alot of peoples minds begins to stick. Carolina don't want that, their owners don't want that, their fans don't want that, and the players don't want to be associated with a team that is so bad it gets the First Draft pick for 2 out of 3 years.

    So, teams try to win games! If you are Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Dallas, Denver or New England then 2 or 3 bad years isn't going to hurt too much, because those teams are riddled with history and identity and can handle a bit of adversity without it affecting their reputation. Look at SF last season, they'd struggled for a while but people always knew they'd be back. People still associate the 49ers with Montana, Rice and Young, and so they can have bad seasons and still have a good reputation. The likes of Carolina can't as yet, and I think that will stop you 'throwing' any games.
    On the flipside though given we’ve not yet got a reputation as such and seemingly don’t have the personnel to develop one any time soon – or at least a positive reputation! There’s probably not a lot to be gained from going 3-13/4-12 over going 1/15 or 0/16? Presumably any losing season (less than .5) for the organisation is going to be seen as a bad result with the pre-season optimism and if there was a special talent then you’d consider it for the long term benefit it would bring?

    That’s not going to happen of course, as I said earlier a stellar QB is perhaps the only player worth doing that for and we won’t go that route. I’m just trying to better understand the system and mindsets in the game.

    What talent is available this year in the draft? Last year even as a new fan I’d heard lots about this Andrew Luck who was on clubs radar and to a lesser extent RG3. I’ve not heard much this year and SS talk of WR earlier is all I’ve seen.

    With all this talk of tanking I must point out though that in my opinion (as limited and naïve as it may be!) the Panthers aren’t a 2-7 team. We’re better than that I think and if you take away the Giants blowout and to a lesser extent the result last night we’re not far away at all. Our D won’t get any credit for last night because there’s only ever 1 story and that’s Cam Newton. But we held Denver to something like 70 rushing yards and Manning to one TD pass, we gifted them the pick 6 and they had an great punt return (which shouldn’t have stood btw) which makes things seems worse than they actually are.

    If everything clicks then we’re good, but it doesn’t look like clicking any time soon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    What talent is available this year in the draft? Last year even as a new fan I’d heard lots about this Andrew Luck who was on clubs radar and to a lesser extent RG3. I’ve not heard much this year and SS talk of WR earlier is all I’ve seen.
    The QB class of 2013 is pretty low on depth really. Matt Barkley of USC, Geno Smith of West Virginia and Colin Klein of Kansas State look to be the best of a not so stellar list. Landry Jones of Oklahoma has had a good college career but I'm not sure he'll go that early in the draft. Barkley could have gone pro this season but opted to come back for his senior year at USC, which is traditionally a national power in college football. It hasn't quite gone as planned for him or them this season, but he will still probably do better in the draft in 2013 than he would have done alongside Luck and RGIII in 2012. Klein at KSU has had a stellar year. They were not tipped to be national title contenders this season but they are 10-0 and he is a Heisman candidate. Whether he has enough to entice NFL teams though is debatable IMO.

    The RB class is not too bad. Kenjon Barner of Oregon is really good, as is Montee Ball of Wisconsin, both having good years and both having very good reputations. A lot of people are saying Eddie Lacy of Alabama may go pro this year, but he doesn't have to opt for the draft in 2013 as he is not in his Senior Year. He may wait for 2014.

    As SS has said, the WR class is probably the strongest of the 'impact positions' in 2013. The major thing to note in this class of potential draft picks as that all the players near the top of the list are actually in their Junior year at college (3rd of 4) so they may all opt to stay in college in 2013. It generally comes down to whether players think they can draft high or whether its better to maybe hang around for another season if they think the competition is going to be weaker in twelve months. SS has told you the leading players. Keenan Allen of California and Robert Woods of USC are both outstanding. I think Woods will go pro because his QB at USC Matt Barkley will as well. To go into a Senior year and have to adapt to a new QB for just one year is usually enough for most star college WR's to follow their QB's to the NFL.

    For me though, the 2013 draft will be dominated by defensive players. Only Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Keenan Allen and Robert Woods (if they opt for the NFL) will have a chance of going in the top 10 IMO out of the offensive players. Alabama will again provide the NFL will a list of future star defensive players, with maybe 4 of them going in the 1st round.

    One wild card is Michigan QB Denard Robinson. He is a rushing QB with great hands and has rushed for over 4,000 yards in his college career. He is regarded as one of the exciting QB's in college football and will end up in the NFL next season. The question is which position will he play. Nobody thinks he can play QB at NFL level, myself included. He may end up as a RB somewhere, or maybe even as a WR. He could be a great 2nd or 3rd round pick to give a team an explosive player who can run, catch and also play QB for the odd down. I'd like him at Green Bay.

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    Just to add as well. I've always said to my good mate who got me into College Football that following the sport is like being a football fan in Argentina or Holland. The atmosphere is awesome, the games are really fun and some of the players at that age are spectacular and it's great watching players at 18-22 that you know will be stars. But ultimately all of those players go away to play in the big time, which can be frustrating especially when you get a Senior year at a certain college which is mind blowingly good and then see it have to break up and head to a dozen different NFL teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The QB class of 2013 is pretty low on depth really. Matt Barkley of USC, Geno Smith of West Virginia and Colin Klein of Kansas State look to be the best of a not so stellar list. Landry Jones of Oklahoma has had a good college career but I'm not sure he'll go that early in the draft. Barkley could have gone pro this season but opted to come back for his senior year at USC, which is traditionally a national power in college football. It hasn't quite gone as planned for him or them this season, but he will still probably do better in the draft in 2013 than he would have done alongside Luck and RGIII in 2012. Klein at KSU has had a stellar year. They were not tipped to be national title contenders this season but they are 10-0 and he is a Heisman candidate. Whether he has enough to entice NFL teams though is debatable IMO.

    The RB class is not too bad. Kenjon Barner of Oregon is really good, as is Montee Ball of Wisconsin, both having good years and both having very good reputations. A lot of people are saying Eddie Lacy of Alabama may go pro this year, but he doesn't have to opt for the draft in 2013 as he is not in his Senior Year. He may wait for 2014.

    As SS has said, the WR class is probably the strongest of the 'impact positions' in 2013. The major thing to note in this class of potential draft picks as that all the players near the top of the list are actually in their Junior year at college (3rd of 4) so they may all opt to stay in college in 2013. It generally comes down to whether players think they can draft high or whether its better to maybe hang around for another season if they think the competition is going to be weaker in twelve months. SS has told you the leading players. Keenan Allen of California and Robert Woods of USC are both outstanding. I think Woods will go pro because his QB at USC Matt Barkley will as well. To go into a Senior year and have to adapt to a new QB for just one year is usually enough for most star college WR's to follow their QB's to the NFL.

    For me though, the 2013 draft will be dominated by defensive players. Only Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Keenan Allen and Robert Woods (if they opt for the NFL) will have a chance of going in the top 10 IMO out of the offensive players. Alabama will again provide the NFL will a list of future star defensive players, with maybe 4 of them going in the 1st round.

    One wild card is Michigan QB Denard Robinson. He is a rushing QB with great hands and has rushed for over 4,000 yards in his college career. He is regarded as one of the exciting QB's in college football and will end up in the NFL next season. The question is which position will he play. Nobody thinks he can play QB at NFL level, myself included. He may end up as a RB somewhere, or maybe even as a WR. He could be a great 2nd or 3rd round pick to give a team an explosive player who can run, catch and also play QB for the odd down. I'd like him at Green Bay.
    Agree completely. I've read a good few reports on the 2013 drafts and defensive players are taking up most of the top 15 mocks, although it is incredibly early to take them seriously. As ever though, QB's with any semblance of ability are going top 10. 2 tackles at Texas A & M are being raved about and a few pass rushers seem to have gotten attention.

    Either way for Miami, I'm hoping to see our 3 picks in the first two rounds go on a CB and 2 impact players in the passing game.

    The thing with Carolina is, do they stick with Newton or look for a new QB ? I'm not convinced by Newton at all, I generally never am convinced by running QB's in all honesty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    The thing with Carolina is, do they stick with Newton or look for a new QB ? I'm not convinced by Newton at all, I generally never am convinced by running QB's in all honesty.
    I'd stick with him, definitely. He is a good QB, but he needs more around him. He is the focal point of an average team in only his 2nd year. It's a lot of pressure. Some can handle it like Luck, but Luck is far better. Newton can be IMO a good NFL QB if he has the players around him to take the pressure off him. Time will tell, but the time to maybe think of an alternative if things aren't working is at least 2 or 3 years down the line.

    At that point they can throw their 2015 season and win the 'Johnny Manziel Bowl'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'd stick with him, definitely. He is a good QB, but he needs more around him. He is the focal point of an average team in only his 2nd year. It's a lot of pressure. Some can handle it like Luck, but Luck is far better. Newton can be IMO a good NFL QB if he has the players around him to take the pressure off him. Time will tell, but the time to maybe think of an alternative if things aren't working is at least 2 or 3 years down the line.

    At that point they can throw their 2015 season and win the 'Johnny Manziel Bowl'
    With you being a GB fan, I was curious as to your opinion of Joe Philbin.

    Took a hammering early doors in Miami after Hard Knocks and then had everybody loving him with the way we were playing and some of his gutsy calls. Few murmerings on Miami sites at present after the two losses. He's a gutsy bugger I'll give him that. Benched Bush yesterday in the 2nd quarter following his fumble, benched Tannehill in the 4th after his performance, his recent calls include a punt fake and an onside kick in the 3rd etc. Certainly has balls.

    I'm also interested in this 'build through the draft' philosophy which most Miami ITK's seem to say is central to any Green Bay man's policy. It seems many expect him to work the same way at Miami. Many are clamouring for a big WR signing in FA (Wallace, Bowe, Jennings etc) at the end of the season however, many are pointing to the way Green Bay (with Philbin) have generally acquired WR's through 2nd, 3rd and 4th draft picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    With you being a GB fan, I was curious as to your opinion of Joe Philbin.
    I've always liked him, did a great job at Green Bay. His philosophy was always to build through 2nd and 3rd round draft picks because the fact of life is that Green Bay are never going to be in a position where they think they are ever going to have a really high 1st round draft pick, because to be in that position would be to predict mediocrity and a poor season.

    If you look at James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Jermichael Finley, Greg Jennings etc, none of them were 1st round picks and all floated under the radar slightly. Finley in particular had a great college career at Texas, I was delighted when we got him. Even Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews (just using him as a defensive example of a superstar player we drafted) were only selected way down near the bottom of the 1st Round. Green Bay try and build their offence this way, because it hopefully prevents us getting into cap difficulties by avoiding the glamour big money 1st round picks, and it hopefully allows us to bring in 2nd or 3rd round picks and not swamp them with immediate pressure.

    Green Bay is a unique and special pro sports environment and when players go there and are allowed to build slowly and take in the culture of the place it helps them to...

    a, be very effective when they break into the line up because they aren't under immense pressure like high end 1st round picks are. Even Rodgers who was talked up as a good QB and who eventually replaced Favre had been a back up for several years and wasn't thrown in immediately. He was the one player we've drafted in recent years who obviously had pressure on him when he became a starter, but any Green Bay QB will have. The fact he developed over many years and wasn't thrown in straight away ultimately helped him become an elite QB fairly quickly.

    b, the policy also makes players want to hang around for a long time even if they can maybe make more money elsewhere. Virtually all of the good players we've brought in via the draft since about 2005 are still in Green Bay, and that tells its own story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    The thing with Carolina is, do they stick with Newton or look for a new QB ? I'm not convinced by Newton at all, I generally never am convinced by running QB's in all honesty.
    I'd be inclined to stick with him and build the team around him, his passing ability seems decent enough and if he had better protection and better options then he'd not be struggling as much. No doubt a lot of it is down to attitude and he needs to work on that but the problem at the minute is every single element of his game is being massively scrutinised, not just his game even - his press conferences and pitch side manner are being questioned on a weekly basis. He needs to go back to enjoying his game and the good things will come again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    I'd be inclined to stick with him and build the team around him, his passing ability seems decent enough and if he had better protection and better options then he'd not be struggling as much. No doubt a lot of it is down to attitude and he needs to work on that but the problem at the minute is every single element of his game is being massively scrutinised, not just his game even - his press conferences and pitch side manner are being questioned on a weekly basis. He needs to go back to enjoying his game and the good things will come again.
    The kid doesn't suffer from a lack of confidence that is for sure! You have to look at what he did in 2010 at Auburn though. That season was the only season he played properly at college level. He had been at Florida and did nothing, transferred to a no-mark college and then went to Auburn in 2010. In his one season there he led them to a massively unexpected 14-0 season and to their first National Championship since the 1950's and also won the Heisman Trophy, and was then picked 1st in the NFL draft. Little wonder that he thinks he is special and maybe doesn't have to work as hard as others given the comparitively quick fire success he has had since 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The kid doesn't suffer from a lack of confidence that is for sure! You have to look at what he did in 2010 at Auburn though. That season was the only season he played properly at college level. He had been at Florida and did nothing, transferred to a no-mark college and then went to Auburn in 2010. In his one season there he led them to a massively unexpected 14-0 season and to their first National Championship since the 1950's and also won the Heisman Trophy, and was then picked 1st in the NFL draft. Little wonder that he thinks he is special and maybe doesn't have to work as hard as others given the comparitively quick fire success he has had since 2010.
    I don't think it's a lack of confidence or an over confidence issue for that matter - looks to me like a bit of only child syndrom as I call it. In that if things don't go his way for any reason then he sulks and if he's not getting the breaks then it will impact upon him and everybody around him.

    From what i've seen and read he put lots of effort in behind teh scenes and watches hours upon hours of tapes to get things right but he can't lose the habit he has of sulking should it not be in his favour. To give him some credit over the past two weeks he's shown a side that he's not shown previously and done things tough. Last week he picked up an injury against Washington to his hand but he worked through that and took us to the win. Previously he'd have just dropped right off the radar but he didn't. Some of that though would be down to wanting to out do RG3 no doubt.

    Also last night after getting hammered with sacks all day he kept going and even though it wasn't working for him or us he took us to another TD which again is something he's had a habbit of not doing in teh past. He's sat on teh side and sulked his way though games and I think the Giants game earlier in teh season was an example of that, he sat out and didn't get involved with the team at all.

    I think he's trying, maybe too hard at times but some of it does boil down to p!ss poor pass protection

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