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Thread: 19 for Wigan

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by E Saint View Post
    Calm down 'eld lad.

    On sunday have a few beers, enjoy the banter, accept that weve got a game the following week, and look forward to it
    "We may have" a game next week.

  2. #27
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    Really got a downer on that squad, we simply don't have enough to break wigan down. Lomax for me has struggled in the back end of the season, gaskell hasn't the creativity of Pryce yet. Not a dig at either of those, just an observation at their obvious inexperience.

    The squad also looks a lot of 'if not quite ready give them another week' I'm sure if this was a do or die game we might see any of flanno, eastmond, wheeler or Pryce. I happen to support Simmons if this is his thinking, the fact is would we rather win, then lose, or lose then win, and go with a stronger squad into the semis. Obviously we've no idea what next week will take out of the team.

    Anyway the team I expect

    Wello
    Makinson
    Shenton
    Meli
    Foster
    Gaskell
    Lomax
    Graham
    Roby
    LMS
    Soliola
    Moore/Dixon/Ashurst/Clough
    Wilkin (or tp, with Wilkin SR)

    Subs, 4 of Moore, Dixon, Ashurst, Clough, TP.. Can't see how we can 'carry' Armstrong on the bench


    Just think we won't have enough to beat them Sunday sadly

  3. #28
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    sorry everyone. sorry. just upset. hopefully i will be more optimistic by sunday. coys and all that
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdom View Post
    "We may have" a game next week.
    I'll go with 'more than likely'.

    To be honest it doesnt bother me too much, the weeks rest hasnt done us any favours in the previous 4 years.

  5. #30
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    Looking again at that squad, if Simmons plays a back on the bench this weekend I'll be seriously p*ssed off!!!

    We HAVE to go with 4 forwards on the bench.

  6. #31
    Starting A Programme Collection Marsh's Avatar
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    I count that we have 6 out, the goons are only missing Fielden, just our luck.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh View Post
    I count that we have 6 out, the goons are only missing Fielden, just our luck.
    I make it 7: 5 rep players (Perry, Flannery, Gardner, Pryce, Eastmond), our most talented young back (Wheeler) and most talented young forward (Magennis).

  8. #33
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    Can we wait until AFTER the game before we start pulling players and coaches to pieces. If we win we win but it is not the end of the world if we don't. I would like us to win but luckily we have another chance and one that we may have some more experienced players back. I am not giving up until the fat lady sings.

  9. #34
    Starting A Programme Collection Marsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I make it 7: 5 rep players (Perry, Flannery, Gardner, Pryce, Eastmond), our most talented young back (Wheeler) and most talented young forward (Magennis).
    Yep, your right, forgot Magennis

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh View Post
    I count that we have 6 out, the goons are only missing Fielden, just our luck.
    Can't see Cross or Mossop being fit enough for a clash like this. No Hock either.

  11. #36
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100% Saint View Post
    Tp returns and so does Soliola, but Pryce, Wheeler, Eastmond and Flannery are out.

    http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1244

    1. Paul Wellens, 3. Michael Shenton, 4. Sia Soliola, 5. Francis Meli, 9. James Roby, 10. James Graham, 11. Tony Puletua, 12. Jon Wilkin, 14. Scott Moore, 15. Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook, 16. Paul Clough, 18. Matty Ashurst, 19. Andrew Dixon, 20. Jonny Lomax, 22. Jamie Foster, 24. Tom Armstrong, 25. Lee Gaskell, 28. Tom Makinson, 29. Scott Hale.
    Wellens
    Makinson
    Shenton
    Meli
    Gaskell
    Lomax
    Graham
    Roby
    LMS
    Soliola
    Wilkin
    Dixon

    Puletua
    Moore
    Clough
    Armstrong
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Wellens
    Makinson
    Shenton
    Meli
    Gaskell
    Lomax
    Graham
    Roby
    LMS
    Soliola
    Wilkin
    Dixon

    Puletua
    Moore
    Clough
    Armstrong
    Sadly I think you are right and the genius will sit Armstrong on the bench for about 70 minutes, perhaps even 80.

  13. #38
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    Its the fact that Wheeler is only 21 that makes it worse. Young lads should be able to shake knocks off, its usually older players that are more susceptible to injuries. In a derby game, everyone should want to play even with injuries. Wheeler doesn't strike me as someone who would put his body on the line.

    I agree that there must be something fundamentally wrong with the conditioning. Quad pulls again?? Its the equivalent of the football metatarsal. How can Wigan who have played more games than we have, be more or less at full strength again. Week by week, they have nearly full strength teams. Its not bad luck anymore, no chance. Its gone on for far too long and questions need to be asked.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Wellens
    Makinson
    Shenton
    Meli
    Gaskell
    Lomax
    Graham
    Roby
    LMS
    Soliola
    Wilkin
    Dixon

    Puletua
    Moore
    Clough
    Armstrong

    Thats only 16 - who is partnering Lomax?

  15. #40
    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Real shame about Gary Wheeler. He was absolutely oustanding last week at Quins, displayed again what a talent he has great feet and hands. He is just the kind of player with something a little bit different that would help us beat Wigan. He has without doubt spent too much time on the treatment table but can people not give him the benefit of the doubt that he might just have been very unfortunate ? He is a young lad , plenty of time on his side and is unlikely to be on big bucks so cut the guy some slack. I'm sure we will reap the rewards in future if we show a degree of patience.

    As for the squad for Sunday it is stronger than the one that came within 40 seconds or so of a magnificent against the odds victory at The DW on Good Friday.

    Keep the faith, Come On You Saints !!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Real shame about Gary Wheeler. He was absolutely oustanding last week at Quins, displayed again what a talent he has great feet and hands. He is just the kind of player with something a little bit different that would help us beat Wigan. He has without doubt spent too much time on the treatment table but can people not give him the benefit of the doubt that he might just have been very unfortunate ? He is a young lad , plenty of time on his side and is unlikely to be on big bucks so cut the guy some slack. I'm sure we will reap the rewards in future if we show a degree of patience.

    As for the squad for Sunday it is stronger than the one that came within 40 seconds or so of a magnificant against the odds victory at The DW on Good Friday.

    Keep the faith, Come On You Saints !!
    How long can you give someone Paul? Its been about 3 years on the bounce that Wheeler has been like this. There comes a time when you have to cut your losses. If he is an ever present for another team then its our bad luck but something tells me he never will.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    How long can you give someone Paul?
    Longer than aged 21 for someone with the obvious talent that Wheeler has, IMO of course.

    He should be here at least until the next season when his deal expires. If he gets 10-15 games under his belt next year I'd give him another deal too.

    He has the potential to be one of the best young players we've brought through in recent memory. No point wasting all that hard work and cutting off our noses to spite our face because we're frustrated with his injury record aged 20/21.

    He wouldn't be short of offers elsewhere that's for sure.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Longer than aged 21 for someone with the obvious talent that Wheeler has, IMO of course.

    He should be here at least until the next season when his deal expires. If he gets 10-15 games under his belt next year I'd give him another deal too.

    He has the potential to be one of the best young players we've brought through in recent memory. No point wasting all that hard work and cutting off our noses to spite our face because we're frustrated with his injury record aged 20/21.

    He wouldn't be short of offers elsewhere that's for sure.

    Im not exactly sure Stu but no point in me repeating the above as its pretty much how I feel. On his day he is a very exciting player. lets not forget he was causing Wigan no end of problems on Good Friday and he was taken out very late off the ball by Hoffman causing a long lay off.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Its the fact that Wheeler is only 21 that makes it worse. Young lads should be able to shake knocks off, its usually older players that are more susceptible to injuries. In a derby game, everyone should want to play even with injuries. Wheeler doesn't strike me as someone who would put his body on the line.

    I agree that there must be something fundamentally wrong with the conditioning. Quad pulls again?? Its the equivalent of the football metatarsal. How can Wigan who have played more games than we have, be more or less at full strength again. Week by week, they have nearly full strength teams. Its not bad luck anymore, no chance. Its gone on for far too long and questions need to be asked.
    I don't think it's fair to questions Wheelers desire to play in the game - the suffering he will be going through is far worse than anythink the supporters will be experiencing. It's a young lad who is desperate to make his way in the game and just having awful luck.

    I think some of the problem with Wheeler may stem bvack to him being bulked up to soon, this was part of the old regimes way of treating the younger lads. Bulk them up and all would be right. Some peoples bodies just cannot take this and I suspect that wheeler is still paying the price for poor conditioning earlier in his career.

    We need to stick by him and let his physical development steady out - it's ludicrous to even suggest giving up on the lad now, we stand to lose more by letting him go now than by giving him the chance to get hinmself sorted.

    As for the negativity surrounding the squad - it's of little surprise really on here , and has become the norm for people to criticise before the actual event. Shame really

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    I don't think it's fair to questions Wheelers desire to play in the game - the suffering he will be going through is far worse than anythink the supporters will be experiencing. It's a young lad who is desperate to make his way in the game and just having awful luck.

    I think some of the problem with Wheeler may stem bvack to him being bulked up to soon, this was part of the old regimes way of treating the younger lads. Bulk them up and all would be right. Some peoples bodies just cannot take this and I suspect that wheeler is still paying the price for poor conditioning earlier in his career.

    We need to stick by him and let his physical development steady out - it's ludicrous to even suggest giving up on the lad now, we stand to lose more by letting him go now than by giving him the chance to get hinmself sorted.

    As for the negativity surrounding the squad - it's of little surprise really on here , and has become the norm for people to criticise before the actual event. Shame really
    I think its more fans frustrations than anything. That shows some passion. Its different than constant negativity, I can hardly be accused of that.

    Wheeler is a fantastic talent of that there is no doubt. But sports are littered with players who are outstanding at young ages and then drop off the radar for various reasons. My point is that its not his 1st or 2nd season, he is 21 and for the last 3 years has been in and out of the team. Look at Ratboy, he gets hammered every week and gets up. Other players would have come back far quicker from that Hoffman tackle, I can guarantee that.

    How long would you have given Owen Hargreaves at Utd??

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    How long would you have given Owen Hargreaves at Utd??

    is that not a different scenario altogether with him being 31 not 21 ?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    is that not a different scenario altogether with him being 31 not 21 ?
    Well yeah but my point is that Hargreaves was a great player too. I really rate Wheeler but he is taking up a wage that could be utilised on someone who plays more than 5 games a year.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I think its more fans frustrations than anything. That shows some passion. Its different than constant negativity, I can hardly be accused of that.

    Wheeler is a fantastic talent of that there is no doubt. But sports are littered with players who are outstanding at young ages and then drop off the radar for various reasons. My point is that its not his 1st or 2nd season, he is 21 and for the last 3 years has been in and out of the team. Look at Ratboy, he gets hammered every week and gets up. Other players would have come back far quicker from that Hoffman tackle, I can guarantee that.

    How long would you have given Owen Hargreaves at Utd??
    I know what you mean, it's incredibly frustrating - and as you say constant negativity is something that I couldn't label you with. There are though some who are negative more often than not - and that is what frustrates me more than anything to be honest.

    There is a difference though with Wheeler and hargreaves, Hargreaves was at the club on a very good wage and very much considered a first team player. Wheeler is still a prospect, and as such will be paid as one. Whilst he is still on the books as one of the lower paid squad members we're able to take a punt on him - if he was taking up a chunk of the cap then perhaps i'd be more inclined to be suggesting we offloaded him.

    I thoroughly believe if we dropped him there'd be clubs queing up to sign him, and they'd be the bigger clubs too. the only problem Wheeler is causing is to the fans - they are expectant and rightly so, but the club will know what they are dealing with and from speaking with people involved with his development I know he's rated as highly as any young player we've produced over the last 10 years.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    I know what you mean, it's incredibly frustrating - and as you say constant negativity is something that I couldn't label you with. There are though some who are negative more often than not - and that is what frustrates me more than anything to be honest.

    There is a difference though with Wheeler and hargreaves, Hargreaves was at the club on a very good wage and very much considered a first team player. Wheeler is still a prospect, and as such will be paid as one. Whilst he is still on the books as one of the lower paid squad members we're able to take a punt on him - if he was taking up a chunk of the cap then perhaps i'd be more inclined to be suggesting we offloaded him.

    I thoroughly believe if we dropped him there'd be clubs queing up to sign him, and they'd be the bigger clubs too. the only problem Wheeler is causing is to the fans - they are expectant and rightly so, but the club will know what they are dealing with and from speaking with people involved with his development I know he's rated as highly as any young player we've produced over the last 10 years.
    His talent has never been in question. I also disagree that he is merely a prospect. If he ever strings some games together, he would be in my starting 13, either at left centre or at stand off. Unfortunately in sport there are athletes who are injury prone, no matter what club they play for, or what training they do. Saha, Anderton for example. I just truly hope that Wheeler does not fall into that category. Like I say, it worries me that he is getting them at such a young age. Its usually towards the end of a players career that the injuries start.

  25. #50
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    How long can you give someone Paul? Its been about 3 years on the bounce that Wheeler has been like this. There comes a time when you have to cut your losses. If he is an ever present for another team then its our bad luck but something tells me he never will.
    Another season and that's it. If the winter off doesn't rid him of his problems then it's likely he will always be prone to such things.

    To me he looks a quality player in the making and it would be folly not to give him more time.
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