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Thread: Saints Need Pace!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hazzo21 View Post
    The current 3/4's at Saints may not be the quickest ever, but they contribute in other ways. Ignoring recent from and the threads on Wellens over the last few days, just think how long he has been at the top of his game despite NEVER having any pace.
    Dwain Chambers was fast, how long did he last at Cas?
    Well Said.

    And what a failure Chambers was.. To be a winger you need more than just pace, and Foster for me is an all round decent young player. His defence isnt too bad for the size of him and has bags of confidence, i cant see where Wes is coming from regarding this at all.
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    Fox and Ainscough do hold regular spots Ainscough is out through injury, the diference between Wigan (Goulding) Dire (Riley) and Saints at the moment is Wigan and Dire have 3 or 4 better players in front of the 2 mentioned Saints are playing the best they have it doesnt mean they are good enough, Foster wouldnt have even made Saints's A team in the days of Hunt, Sullivan, Albert etc. Settling for what the team has isnt necessarily the best way forward there are far better rough diamonds out their who could be signed on the cheaper side and do a better job however this is only my opinion but IMO with Foster and Gardner Saints wont win out nor will they next year, give Makinson a fair shout but another quick better winger needed, Lance Hohia adds a bit of pace especially if he plays at FB its nice and sentiment to keep Wellens but IMO (again) at the end of this year its time to change his position or move him on. Now with 1. Hohia 2. Newbie 3. Meli 4. Shenton 5. Makinson 6. Gaskell 7. Lomax there is only a couple of subtle changes but adds aditional pace IMO would bring back long distance tries and better support for Roby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hoss View Post
    Well Said.

    And what a failure Chambers was.. To be a winger you need more than just pace, and Foster for me is an all round decent young player. His defence isnt too bad for the size of him and has bags of confidence, i cant see where Wes is coming from regarding this at all.

    Foster is awful in defence and loses too many yards on impact when kick returning he is also prone to errors under hard hits etc if you think he is good enough then fair enough my opinion is that hes not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Foster is awful in defence and loses too many yards on impact when kick returning he is also prone to errors under hard hits etc if you think he is good enough then fair enough my opinion is that hes not.
    So Ainscough is the opposite then as you seem to rate him highly... If any winger in SL is weak in defence and error prone, Ainscough is top of that list mate. Yeah he'll score you tries, but he'll cancel them out with his errors and defence which will result in conceeding tries

    I respect your opinion, but im still convinced that its not a fair reflection on Fosters all round ability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Foster is awful in defence and loses too many yards on impact when kick returning he is also prone to errors under hard hits etc if you think he is good enough then fair enough my opinion is that hes not.
    And that's why you're NOT the coach of Saints
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saints-Crusaders View Post
    And that's why you're NOT the coach of Saints
    You could do us all a favour Wes and take over the reigns at the Wigan job lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hoss View Post
    You could do us all a favour Wes and take over the reigns at the Wigan job lol
    I allready support the 2nd best club in the world and current SL Champions, my fiancee supports you guys Im Wigan born and bred and it runs through my veins however I happen to think I have a good unbiased view and opinion on all things rugby and believe it or not wish for Saints to stay a top 2 Club with Wigan, I believe we have the best derby best banter and rivalry and it should stay that way. To be honest Im glad Iv had the opportunity to get that out rather than saying first and having a biased response and writing with such detail about saints without referring to them as the club I support is damn hard. All I ask now that you all know is to stay true and unbiased towards me disagreeing is fine thats what forums are for and dont all shoot at once ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    he is also prone to errors under hard hits
    Huh? I don't remember Foster ever losing a ball under a hard hit. He is one of our players with secure hands. He is also extremely good at catching bombs, has great positioning sense, has enthusiasm, reads the game well, works hard and is a gifted kicker (not just of goals either - some of his kick offs have totally screwed up the opposition and he is developing his kicks in play too, which is good). He also has pace, and is very quick off the mark. The only negative about Foster is his build and he can't help that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    I allready support the 4th best club in the world and current SL Champions, Im Wigan born and bred and it runs through my veins
    I noticed that some time ago!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    I allready support the 2nd best club in the world and current SL Champions, my fiancee supports you guys Im Wigan born and bred and it runs through my veins however I happen to think I have a good unbiased view and opinion on all things rugby and believe it or not wish for Saints to stay a top 2 Club with Wigan, I believe we have the best derby best banter and rivalry and it should stay that way. To be honest Im glad Iv had the opportunity to get that out rather than saying first and having a biased response and writing with such detail about saints without referring to them as the club I support is damn hard. All I ask now that you all know is to stay true and unbiased towards me disagreeing is fine thats what forums are for and dont all shoot at once ;-)
    Anyway, banter in RL is all taken on the chin, especially between Saints and Wigan fans. However, your still wrong about Foster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    I noticed that some time ago!
    Thanks for the unbias and not shooting! I am only interested in the best for our game and teams because essentially the better our teams at club level the better our international team can be, well once we have replaced Steve (not proven at club level) McNamarra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    I am only interested in the best for our game and teams because essentially the better our teams at club level the better our international team can be, well once we have replaced Steve (not proven at club level) McNamarra.
    We all are, its gonna take a while for the international team to improve though, with or without McNamarra
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    Yes I think we are a few years away but we need to look at playing our youngsters and move away from the dinosaurs who couldnt beat the aussies and kiwis in their pomp! Morley and Peacock have been great servants but I thought Mason and Griffin deserve a shot! Mossop, Preccy and LMS not too far away either.

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    Yeah, was abit of a disgrace Peacock was picked vs Exiles, considering he had only played a handful of games for Leeds prior to the game.

    After watching the 9s on Tuesday, there's alot of promise coming through the Wigan and Wire ranks as well as us. Was impressed with the Wigan winger King (think his name is) has bags of speeds and can certainly get stuck in. Widnes FB was also impressive and its good to see Widnes with the talent they had.

    Again, blooding these young lads in will do them good and say in 10 years time, these could benefit the International team in time
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    Yes Ryan King is very good a distant cousin actually, that full back for Widnes I thought was really good and fast just a little small in height, that prop for Saints stood out Walker wearing number 10 would like to see more of him, and Powell for us was always dangerous Wire had a couple of big lads but none stood out individually was my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Fox and Ainscough do hold regular spots Ainscough is out through injury, the diference between Wigan (Goulding) Dire (Riley) and Saints at the moment is Wigan and Dire have 3 or 4 better players in front of the 2 mentioned Saints are playing the best they have it doesnt mean they are good enough, Foster wouldnt have even made Saints's A team in the days of Hunt, Sullivan, Albert etc. Settling for what the team has isnt necessarily the best way forward there are far better rough diamonds out their who could be signed on the cheaper side and do a better job however this is only my opinion but IMO with Foster and Gardner Saints wont win out nor will they next year, give Makinson a fair shout but another quick better winger needed, Lance Hohia adds a bit of pace especially if he plays at FB its nice and sentiment to keep Wellens but IMO (again) at the end of this year its time to change his position or move him on. Now with 1. Hohia 2. Newbie 3. Meli 4. Shenton 5. Makinson 6. Gaskell 7. Lomax there is only a couple of subtle changes but adds aditional pace IMO would bring back long distance tries and better support for Roby.
    Fox has been dropped on 2 or 3 separate occassions and without actually going and checking, in the games he has played he has scored 1 try. Ainscough may be out injured for Bradford (although I am sure he has been fit and not selected) but Wigan let him go, that was the point I am making.
    Also the fact that Riley and Goulding have been dropped for 'better' players kind of backs up my point that it isnt about pace as the players that have replaced them are better all round players. I am not sure if Goulding is quicker than Richards or Charnley or if Riley is quicker than Monaghan and Williams (or whoever is currently on the wing for Wire) but they have been replaced because there overall game is not as good as the current players in those positions.

    As noted in other threads, Hohaia will start next season as a half back, despite what anyone's personal opinion is on him. No point going on about him being at full-back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Yes Ryan King is very good a distant cousin actually, that full back for Widnes I thought was really good and fast just a little small in height, that prop for Saints stood out Walker wearing number 10 would like to see more of him, and Powell for us was always dangerous Wire had a couple of big lads but none stood out individually was my thoughts.
    Yeah i agree with that. Ashe was largely dissapointing for us, and young Scott Hale did ok but i was expecting more from him, especially with abit of 1st team experience behind him.

    Widnes gave a good account of themselves and was unlucky not to beat your men in the 1st game
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    Haha I thought so too we where slow to get going, after watching that then Saints vs Wire then Widnes vs Wire it looked as though Wire where the team to beat, glad to say we stepped up when needed but agree I was thoroughly impressed with Widnes they put across a real good statement of themselves and deserved a little better, the tough thing for Widnes was they where all too small in comparison to the other 3 which meant bigger gaps in defence but in attack they where a joy to watch, incidentally I know I started this thread off on the pace thing that Walker caught a Widnes winger from a standing start and if he can be nursed into the step up could be 1 to watch for you guys I really did think he was your stand out guy and pitted himself well in all of the games. I say nursing through the step up because through no fault of Saints they have had to blood players in too early due to injuries and it showed on tuesday, 20's are on rebuild and Saints are on injury stabilisation.

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    Wingers who are out of contract at the end of this season, inclusive of quota and our own players. Not saying we should sign anyone just saying who is off contract. Make of it what you will.

    Patrick Ah Van, Shaun Ainscough, Gareth Raynor, Dave Halley, Kirk Dixon, Martin Aspinwall, Ade Gardner, Tom Armstrong, Luke George, Matt King.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Wingers who are out of contract at the end of this season, inclusive of quota and our own players. Not saying we should sign anyone just saying who is off contract. Make of it what you will.

    Patrick Ah Van, Shaun Ainscough, Gareth Raynor, Dave Halley, Kirk Dixon, Martin Aspinwall, Ade Gardner, Tom Armstrong, Luke George, Matt King.
    Gardner, Foster and Makinson as our wingers then next year based on that (maybe Armstrong as well). I certainly wouldnt go out on our way to sign any of the other UK players and even if we wanted them, we cant have any of the overseas players!

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    I think you could swap Gardner for Jodie Broughton he wont turn Saints down and Salford wouldnt turn down Gardner win win!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    I think you could swap Gardner for Jodie Broughton he wont turn Saints down and Salford wouldnt turn down Gardner win win!
    Broughton isn't out of contract,Gardner is. They can reach a deal with Gardner without Broughton being involved in the matter. They wouldn't just give him away.
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    He's scored quite a few this season and been consistent.. Sign him up!

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    Contracts arnt worth the paper they are written on, its all about money really yes Salford would be free to approach Gardner but if saints put word out they wanted jodie and approached Salford in the correct manner they wouldnt stand in his way of moving to a bigger club if he wanted it (look at eastmond) its no good keeping a player who doesnt want to be there. Gardner would be free to talk to other clubs also but at least salford could have the opportunity of replacing jodie if it where to happen at all lol. As you point out with the out of contract players, the only one worth a punt IMO is George but going by the earlier reactions Im on my own with that 1 on this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Contracts arnt worth the paper they are written on, its all about money really yes Salford would be free to approach Gardner but if saints put word out they wanted jodie and approached Salford in the correct manner they wouldnt stand in his way of moving to a bigger club if he wanted it (look at eastmond) its no good keeping a player who doesnt want to be there. Gardner would be free to talk to other clubs also but at least salford could have the opportunity of replacing jodie if it where to happen at all lol. As you point out with the out of contract players, the only one worth a punt IMO is George but going by the earlier reactions Im on my own with that 1 on this thread.
    If Saints did declare an interest in Broughton then why on earth would Salford let him go and replace him with the person who Saints are replacing!! I can understand if he is OOC but he isnt and no club in their right mind would do that. The only way it would happen is if Saints paid Salford some form of compensation/transfer fee and I am not sure he is that good that we would do that or if Saints could afford to pay such a fee.
    Comparing to Eastmond is rubbish as well because Eastmond is OOC at the end of this season and that is why he is leaving. If he had another 2 years on his contract and Bath still wanted him then I very much doubt Saints would have let him go for nothing.

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