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Thread: Saints Need Pace!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Why would we want a Wigan cast off? If he's not making it at Wigan it will be because they have better options. I don't see why our present two wingers couldn't develop into better wingers than one not good enough to get into the present Wigan side.

    I think we're all writing Makinson off way too soon. The lad hasn't done anything wrong other than think he could out jump Pat Richards. He has pace aplenty, he works hard and he can score tries, even when Wigan are mullering us. And Foster is doing fine on the other edge bar his genetics have yet to trigger a growth spurt.
    Sean Long did ok

    No disgrace being behind the likes of Richards/Roberts/Charnley. They are all better than Makinson/Foster. Goulding scored 30 tries last year made his England debut and he would definitely improve Saints. That doesn't mean they will move for him I just threw his name into the debate of players with pace

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Sean Long????
    He was moved on due to his attitude, wasn't he?

    And besides, he was a Widnes cast off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Sean Long????
    Lee Gilmour too
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  4. #54
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    Not writing Makinson off mate give him a chance but IMO and I may get shot for this Gardner no longer good enough and although Foster has a good boot he aint good enough either!
    Please think about Foster and how he plays before you try to shoot me down.

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    Also what about Riley very fast, solid and out of favour with Dire?!?!?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Not writing Makinson off mate give him a chance but IMO and I may get shot for this Gardner no longer good enough and although Foster has a good boot he aint good enough either!
    Please think about Foster and how he plays before you try to shoot me down.
    Bar goalkicking, his stats don't stack up to most wingers in the league. I think he is a talented player but he might be best served in the long run at FB. Just an observation that he is good under the high ball and I think getting his hands on the ball could see him in a better light, although I haven't seen anything of him bar in the first team and I could be completely wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    He was moved on due to his attitude, wasn't he?
    And besides, he was a Widnes cast off.
    Disciplinary reasons, but he also wasn't getting a game because he was behind plenty of players

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Bar goalkicking, his stats don't stack up to most wingers in the league. I think he is a talented player but he might be best served in the long run at FB. Just an observation that he is good under the high ball and I think getting his hands on the ball could see him in a better light, although I haven't seen anything of him bar in the first team and I could be completely wrong

    and yet out of at least 26 other wingers, only 2 have scored more tries than him.....so now is that bar goalkicking AND tryscoring, his stats don't compare ????
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazdev View Post
    Bar goalkicking, his stats don't stack up to most wingers in the league. I think he is a talented player but he might be best served in the long run at FB. Just an observation that he is good under the high ball and I think getting his hands on the ball could see him in a better light, although I haven't seen anything of him bar in the first team and I could be completely wrong
    I know they say Lance H was bought for stand off but personally feel he should be played at FB leaving Lomax and Gaskell to flourish who IMO are very talented and will get better in time, being kind to Wellens I would consider him at centre or 2nd row, the hardest decisions for clubs is to get rid or move players at the right time and again I may get shot down but Saints need to have a modern style fullback now and before moving for Hohia, Pryce was the perfect fit! Against Wigan Lomaskell where quiet but Wigan did dominate this will do them to a world of good and they should be jeered up for Dire and put in a good show, they need to find a good level of consistency because too much is resting on Roby and its starting to show, Roby plays his best rugby with dominant forwards and no pressure, I just wish he would develop a bit of a kicking game too and put 4 or 5 kicks in per game then IMO he would match Cameron Smith on the international stage however again I am being hypercritical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Why would we want a Wigan cast off? If he's not making it at Wigan it will be because they have better options. I don't see why our present two wingers couldn't develop into better wingers than one not good enough to get into the present Wigan side.

    I think we're all writing Makinson off way too soon. The lad hasn't done anything wrong other than think he could out jump Pat Richards. He has pace aplenty, he works hard and he can score tries, even when Wigan are mullering us. And Foster is doing fine on the other edge bar his genetics have yet to trigger a growth spurt.
    There are plenty of Wigan 'cast offs' who have gone on to have great careers elsewhere, sometimes players stagnate and a change of scenery can do them wonders. Darell Goulding is in my opinion a better wing option that what we currently have and would go straight into the team.

    Other Wigan cast offs include Shaun Briscoe, Kevin Brown, Luke Robinson. Just because they don't make it at one particular club means they're careers should be written off.

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    Not this thread again!!!!

    We have enough pace. When we only give Shenton the ball 4/5 times a game what does it matter how fast the man outside him is. Meli and Foster have been far more effective this year than their faster right wing counterparts. More physical players in the middle is the answer.

    Next to the "lets sign Ratchford/Chase" thread this is second worst reoccuring thread on here.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    No where near enough pace! Saints are dangerous in opposition 30's, rarely anywhere else!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    No where near enough pace! Saints are dangerous in opposition 30's, rarely anywhere else!
    Maybe that is down to our style of play, as opposed to the actual players. As Noel Cleal points out, Shenton has bags of pace but isn't used effectively enough. I know it is only one example, but look at this 1:40 in this clip and tell me Shenton doesn't have pace....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDj6igoy5xM
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    Shenton does for sure but hes only one player and how many long distance tries are scored by saints nowadays, its a rarity I agree on the style of play but thats good coaching getting around the pace scenario, in the last 10 years for 7 of those saints have played good open attractive rugby and scored long distance tries for fun but they have always had pace to do so in the last 3 years they have not and their style has changed to suit. Warrington are the fastest side in the league IMO and they score lots of long distance tries, why, well pace essentially I know it still requires a lot of skill but saints wigan hudds catalans warrington and leeds have skills some just have more pace than others.

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    We dont make enough breaks at the moment,pace is not the problem until you make a break.We have plenty when the break is made.Speed of passing and timing is more important against set defences like wigans when they have a time out before every ptb.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Also in that video there a few things to note, hes faster than kiwi forwards and hes playing for england, I think Shenton will be better next year hes still settling in to a different club but im sure if he had a fast wing man the combination could be lethal.

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    Scouse don dress it up how you like but the facts are saints dont score long tries anymore or rarely do and pace is the main issue, pace makes breaks pace supports and pace scores tries, Roby has made tons of breaks and half breaks the issue is he is usually on his own and this again comes down to pace. Saints are doing an excellent job at getting around the issue but IMO they would be better with quicker wingers, give makinson a chance for sure but a fast winger on the other side is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Scouse don dress it up how you like but the facts are saints dont score long tries anymore or rarely do and pace is the main issue, pace makes breaks pace supports and pace scores tries, Roby has made tons of breaks and half breaks the issue is he is usually on his own and this again comes down to pace. Saints are doing an excellent job at getting around the issue but IMO they would be better with quicker wingers, give makinson a chance for sure but a fast winger on the other side is needed.
    So drop Foster yeah?

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    Foster is not good enough IMO but it is my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    So drop Foster yeah?
    Sounds like it. He's clearly a pudding.

    Never mind that at the start of the season people were getting in a strop about him coming off the bench. "He should be our starting winger every time" they cried. Now, he's not fast enough so just let's get rid. Because, let's face it, we have two sloths on our wings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Foster is not good enough IMO but it is my opinion.
    12 tries and 68 goals in his first full season on the wing outside what is in essence a makeshift centre, good enough for me.

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    Were we lack pace right now in the 20's and 18's there is a couple of lads with plenty of pace, so the future looks good for speed, in the 20,s there's Dan brotherton who whilst Is quick I'm still not sure about him . There is also a lad playing in the 18's at fullback and he is quick, watched 18's a couple of times this season and he can shift.

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    Was watching the 9's at Orrell on tuesday and there was a fullback for widnes brown i think his name was but not too sure small in height but my work he could shift!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Was watching the 9's at Orrell on tuesday and there was a fullback for widnes brown i think his name was but not too sure small in height but my work he could shift!
    Wes, I dont think anyone is denying that the team lacks pace compared to other teams in the league or previous Saints sides. However, the answer isnt simply to bring someone in simply because they are quick. They have to have the other attributes to their game as well.
    Penny, Riley, Shaun Ainscough, Goulding, Fox etc. are all players that have pace but none of them have been able to hold down a regular place in their respective sides over a decent length of time. Having not watched all of them for a great deal of time, I cant be sure, but I would suspect that they all have other deficiencies in their game that means their pace is not enough to warrant a space in the team.
    The current 3/4's at Saints may not be the quickest ever, but they contribute in other ways. Ignoring recent from and the threads on Wellens over the last few days, just think how long he has been at the top of his game despite NEVER having any pace.
    Dwain Chambers was fast, how long did he last at Cas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29wes28 View Post
    Foster is not good enough IMO but it is my opinion.
    Shocking post if i ever saw one... Foster is a class act! 12 tries and consistantly kicks goals for fun... He's doing exactly the same as say, Pat Richards last year... So is Richards not a good player?
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