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Thread: Football - off season antics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    It also shows that for smaller clubs, developing young talent is something that can be a massive money earner for them and may encourage clubs to put more money into that. If you look at Andy Carroll, Phil Jones, Jordan Henderson & Chris Smalling you have 4 players with I believe less than 5 international appearances to their name but have been sold for approx £77m.
    I don't think Newcastle moulded Carroll in order to cash in on him, that was their current owners decision and one that Newcastle fans were devastated about. I also don't think you can lump them in with the likes of Fulham and Blackburn as a 'smaller club' either.

    On a side note, keeping the Tevez theme going, has anyone seen the clip from his appearance on the Argentine chatshow? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13704323.stm 'There is nothing to do in Manchester, there are only 2 restuarants, etc, etc' The man is obviously an idiot. All that money and I don't reckon he's given Manchester even the remotest chance to impress him or his family, and judging by his comments he obviously won't be back at City next season unless he doesn't realise that we find out everything these players say to their national medias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I don't think Newcastle moulded Carroll in order to cash in on him, that was their current owners decision and one that Newcastle fans were devastated about. I also don't think you can lump them in with the likes of Fulham and Blackburn as a 'smaller club' either.

    On a side note, keeping the Tevez theme going, has anyone seen the clip from his appearance on the Argentine chatshow? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13704323.stm 'There is nothing to do in Manchester, there are only 2 restuarants, etc, etc' The man is obviously an idiot. All that money and I don't reckon he's given Manchester even the remotest chance to impress him or his family, and judging by his comments he obviously won't be back at City next season unless he doesn't realise that we find out everything these players say to their national medias.
    Woah, Graham, you can't mention Tevez as its boring and tiresome

    The man is a clown. 5 years in England and no attempt to learn the language. Happy enough to take astronomical wages though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I don't think Newcastle moulded Carroll in order to cash in on him, that was their current owners decision and one that Newcastle fans were devastated about. I also don't think you can lump them in with the likes of Fulham and Blackburn as a 'smaller club' either.
    Oh I appreciate that, I do though believe that prior to the beginning of last season any Newcastle fan or employee would have snatched your hand off if offered £35m for a player who was untried in the PL. Perhaps it's unfair of me to say it's a way of making money and that players be nurtured with a resale value in mind, but at the very least it shows that these players can be developed at any club and emphasis should always go on development because you never know what kind of player you are going to uncover. I think Chris Smalling represents that perfectly - Maidstone 3 years ago and now look where he is.

    On the subject on money the wage stats for 2009-10 have today been unveiled and there are some pretty shocking stats in amongst them. Chelsea once again topped the wage bill with 174m a season spent on wages compared to £133 at Manchester United, £132 at City and £121 at Liverpool. Unsurprisingly these figures are all an increase on the previous years figures.

    Perhaps the most shocking stat is what percentage of revenue went on wages, at Manchester United 46% of it's revenue went on wages whereas at City a massive 107% went on wages. Now I appreciate they've got an owner who can do that but it represents a very dangerous strategy/plan in my thinking. I'm not sure of the exact ruling but i'm sure UEFA have introduced something that regulates spend etc and this kind of outlay on wage compared to revenue must be sorted out. If the Sheikh pulled out at City anytime soon and they found themselves with a different owner who maybe didn't have the financial clout of the sheikh then they'd be left in a mess and the example of Leeds United must be looked at to show that throwing mega bucks at wages and fees can indeed have disasterous consequences.

    That's not a dig at City by the way - but the figures released are pretty shocking.

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    According to those in the know, Ashley Youngs representatives have held talks with Utd. Also if you believe the decent journalists, i.e those that work for the broadsheets and not the gutter press tabloids, then there are at least another couple of signings expected, in addtion to De Gea, Young and Jones. It seems to be a summer of rebuilding for Utd as Fergie makes plans to leave a good team for his replacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    According to those in the know, Ashley Youngs representatives have held talks with Utd. Also if you believe the decent journalists, i.e those that work for the broadsheets and not the gutter press tabloids, then there are at least another couple of signings expected, in addtion to De Gea, Young and Jones. It seems to be a summer of rebuilding for Utd as Fergie makes plans to leave a good team for his replacement.
    Of De Gea, Young & Jones then De Gea is the only one who will be a regular starter next season in my opinion and I'm pretty sure that if we have ambitions to take on Barca then we need to also bring in a player or two who will completely shake the midfield up. We've lost Scholes, Hargreaves and seemingly Gibson from the squad and the only similar playing for next season is Cleverly (unless Young is seen more centrally - can't see it myself) so we're two short in terms of overall numbers.

    I love signing the young players for teh future but right now we need a player or two who will have an immediate impact.

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    Reacher knows this already via the wonderful world of twitter, but rumour has it that Nasri's representitives are in the process of arranging a deal for him to come to United.

    He'd be in that immediate impact bracket that is for sure, still dubious about it but it would be a wonderful signing for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    Of De Gea, Young & Jones then De Gea is the only one who will be a regular starter next season in my opinion and I'm pretty sure that if we have ambitions to take on Barca then we need to also bring in a player or two who will completely shake the midfield up. We've lost Scholes, Hargreaves and seemingly Gibson from the squad and the only similar playing for next season is Cleverly (unless Young is seen more centrally - can't see it myself) so we're two short in terms of overall numbers.

    I love signing the young players for teh future but right now we need a player or two who will have an immediate impact.
    Well from very good sources, a deal to take Nasri to Utd is imminent. Now he would be a good signing.

    I can also see Young starting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Well from very good sources, a deal to take Nasri to Utd is imminent. Now he would be a good signing.

    I can also see Young starting.
    have to laugh because we're also seemingly going head to head with Arsenal for the young Southampton winger Chamberlain. I think we're rumoured to be looking at cash plus players on loan with Obertan being mentioned as a possible makeshift. If in the summer we beat Arsenal to Jones & Chamberlain and took Nasri from them that would be brilliant!

    I also think all our signings will be unveiled at the same time so nothing may come out until after the Euros.

    De Gea
    Jones
    Young
    Nasri
    Chamberlain

    that would represent a good summer i'd say.

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    Heard Henderson was on Citys radar back in Jan. Now since Jan we've got a trophy in the cabinet and achieved Champions League football, for Henderson to go to Liverpool with no fight from City shows that City have bigger and better players now firmly in their sights.

    I suppose this signing signifies Liverpool are 'back' just as they were last year when they signed Joe Cole. However the most telling thing for me is Utd and Liverpool are out of the blocks quickly in the transfer market showing that they are both worried about City and Chelseas spending power and secondly that they are snapping up young british talent shows they have no quality youngsters of their own coming through.

    Whilst both Henderson and Jones have potential, they are both English which usually means inflated transfer fees, no real technical ability to write home about and inconsistentcy in abundance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saint cross View Post
    You being a regular at Ewood Park and the Stadium of Light are obviously in a great position to comment
    I have seen one have one good game and never seen the other have a good game therefore I am in a perfectly good position to comment about having seen one have one good game and never having seen the other have a good game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    have to laugh because we're also seemingly going head to head with Arsenal for the young Southampton winger Chamberlain. I think we're rumoured to be looking at cash plus players on loan with Obertan being mentioned as a possible makeshift. If in the summer we beat Arsenal to Jones & Chamberlain and took Nasri from them that would be brilliant!

    I also think all our signings will be unveiled at the same time so nothing may come out until after the Euros.

    De Gea
    Jones
    Young
    Nasri
    Chamberlain

    that would represent a good summer i'd say.
    It would represent a magnificent summer for you but the Nasri deal won't happen. Arsenal would rather lose him for nothing a year down the line that let him go to United now. It would be the final straw for their supporters and the club knows it. It would literally signify the end of them as a force in football.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wabo View Post
    Heard Henderson was on Citys radar back in Jan. Now since Jan we've got a trophy in the cabinet and achieved Champions League football, for Henderson to go to Liverpool with no fight from City shows that City have bigger and better players now firmly in their sights.

    I suppose this signing signifies Liverpool are 'back' just as they were last year when they signed Joe Cole. However the most telling thing for me is Utd and Liverpool are out of the blocks quickly in the transfer market showing that they are both worried about City and Chelseas spending power and secondly that they are snapping up young british talent shows they have no quality youngsters of their own coming through.

    Whilst both Henderson and Jones have potential, they are both English which usually means inflated transfer fees, no real technical ability to write home about and inconsistentcy in abundance.
    This is surely a massive wind up because nobody who has an idea about football would come out with this!

    You need to be less obvious wabo when on a wind up.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    It would represent a magnificent summer for you but the Nasri deal won't happen. Arsenal would rather lose him for nothing a year down the line that let him go to United now. It would be the final straw for their supporters and the club knows it. It would literally signify the end of them as a force in football.
    Oh I personally can't see the nasri deal coming off, but it's seemed to gain momentum quickly so may have an ounce of truth.

    I personally think it's a case of the player looking to get a better contract at his current club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    This is surely a massive wind up because nobody who has an idea about football would come out with this!

    You need to be less obvious wabo when on a wind up.....
    I don't think it is a wind up actually.

    Not sure I agree with him 100% but most of it is right.

    Even Sunderland fans were struggling to see what the fuss was about with Henderson and that figure makes some of the signings we have made look sane. As for Jones, I'd never even heard of him until a few weeks ago so I can't see why people have gone so overboard about him. Many players have come through and made a similar impact and completely fallen by the wayside.

    If United get Ashley Young and Nasri then I'll be worried because they are the players we should be in for. Jones the jury is out on. Henderson (who I have seen play quite a few times to be fair) has never looked anything better than a very average player in any of them. If he was Spanish or German, he'd probably be seen in his own country as a player worth about £1,000,000.

    Liverpool sign Jordan Henderson for £20 million and Real Madrid sign Nuri Sahin for £7,000,000. Need I say more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wabo View Post
    Heard Henderson was on Citys radar back in Jan. Now since Jan we've got a trophy in the cabinet and achieved Champions League football, for Henderson to go to Liverpool with no fight from City shows that City have bigger and better players now firmly in their sights.

    I suppose this signing signifies Liverpool are 'back' just as they were last year when they signed Joe Cole. However the most telling thing for me is Utd and Liverpool are out of the blocks quickly in the transfer market showing that they are both worried about City and Chelseas spending power and secondly that they are snapping up young british talent shows they have no quality youngsters of their own coming through.

    Whilst both Henderson and Jones have potential, they are both English which usually means inflated transfer fees, no real technical ability to write home about and inconsistentcy in abundance.
    Yeah one FA Cup and the rest of Europe is quaking.

    Just remind me again, who won the FA Youth Cup this season?

    And who does Cleverley and Welbeck play for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I don't think it is a wind up actually.

    Not sure I agree with him 100% but most of it is right.

    Even Sunderland fans were struggling to see what the fuss was about with Henderson and that figure makes some of the signings we have made look sane. As for Jones, I'd never even heard of him until a few weeks ago so I can't see why people have gone so overboard about him. Many players have come through and made a similar impact and completely fallen by the wayside.

    If United get Ashley Young and Nasri then I'll be worried because they are the players we should be in for. Jones the jury is out on. Henderson (who I have seen play quite a few times to be fair) has never looked anything better than a very average player in any of them. If he was Spanish or German, he'd probably be seen in his own country as a player worth about £1,000,000.

    Liverpool sign Jordan Henderson for £20 million and Real Madrid sign Nuri Sahin for £7,000,000. Need I say more.
    How is the jury out on Jones when all the big clubs were clamouring for his signature?

    Fergie, Dalglish, Wenger, Harry Redknapp are no fools. They know a talent when they see one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Yeah one FA Cup and the rest of Europe is quaking.

    Just remind me again, who won the FA Youth Cup this season?

    And who does Cleverley and Welbeck play for?
    You need to stop going off on one like a big girl and simply answer questions in a civilsed manner without getting snipes in. It'll give you much more credibility!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    How is the jury out on Jones when all the big clubs were clamouring for his signature?

    Fergie, Dalglish, Wenger, Harry Redknapp are no fools. They know a talent when they see one.
    The jury is out because with the limited amount of games he has played he cannot be considered proven at the top level.

    I remember when Paul Rideout was the most sought after youngster in the land. Trouble is he had peaked too soon.

    For every Wayne Rooney there is a Danny Cadamarteri.

    Some players are wanted by every big club around but they might not cut it at the top level. Raw potential is only one small percentage of what is required to become a proven player at the top level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I don't think it is a wind up actually.

    Not sure I agree with him 100% but most of it is right.

    Even Sunderland fans were struggling to see what the fuss was about with Henderson and that figure makes some of the signings we have made look sane. As for Jones, I'd never even heard of him until a few weeks ago so I can't see why people have gone so overboard about him. Many players have come through and made a similar impact and completely fallen by the wayside.

    If United get Ashley Young and Nasri then I'll be worried because they are the players we should be in for. Jones the jury is out on. Henderson (who I have seen play quite a few times to be fair) has never looked anything better than a very average player in any of them. If he was Spanish or German, he'd probably be seen in his own country as a player worth about £1,000,000.

    Liverpool sign Jordan Henderson for £20 million and Real Madrid sign Nuri Sahin for £7,000,000. Need I say more.
    The Henderson bit carries weight, there was a lot of interest in him earlier in the season but it seems he damaged the reputation he had with some shakey performances. United are desperate for midfielders and I personally believe that should we have seen him as a long term prospect we'd have followed out interest up.

    That though is the only part of Wabos post I can understand, or take seriously.

    United signing players early doors is standard procedure really and to say it's being done a)because we are worried about spending power of other clubs and b)because we have poor youth is laughable to say the least.

    The Sahin point is a good one but what we have to also appreciate is there are tight regulations now on squads and where players are from etc that automatically puts them at a premium as they are few and far between.

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    When he is playing for England every game, I will remind you of this.

    Just like your slating of Germany before they battered England in the WC! :-)

    Also just out of interest where are the City youngsters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wabo View Post
    Heard Henderson was on Citys radar back in Jan. Now since Jan we've got a trophy in the cabinet and achieved Champions League football, for Henderson to go to Liverpool with no fight from City shows that City have bigger and better players now firmly in their sights.

    I suppose this signing signifies Liverpool are 'back' just as they were last year when they signed Joe Cole. However the most telling thing for me is Utd and Liverpool are out of the blocks quickly in the transfer market showing that they are both worried about City and Chelseas spending power and secondly that they are snapping up young british talent shows they have no quality youngsters of their own coming through.

    Whilst both Henderson and Jones have potential, they are both English which usually means inflated transfer fees, no real technical ability to write home about and inconsistentcy in abundance.
    How many of the City Youth/Reserve players are you expecting to make at least a handfull of appearances in the first team next season ?

    I watch a fair bit of liverpools "kids" thanks to the clubs channel being free at the moment. I would guess we might see 4 maybe 5 of these next season.

    I agree withe the comment about prices for english players but only time will tell, it is a risk - but saying that - signing non english is just as much a gamble. How much did you pay for dzeko ? Im sure it was more than we paid for suarez, and one has hit the ground running, whilst one has stuttered to say the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    When he is playing for England every game, I will remind you of this.

    Just like your slating of Germany before they battered England in the WC! :-)

    Also just out of interest where are the City youngsters?
    So you called one right. Law of averages said you had to in the end!

    Not many youngsters coming through to play regular football at City at the moment, but it has to be said that City still has the most successful EDS in terms of players that have gone on to play for the first team at City over the last decade and it's only three years since we won the FA Youth Cup.

    Unfortunately it comes with the territory of having as much cash as we have. The youngsters have been frozen out. There has been simply no need for them.

    However, over the course of the last twelve months, Boyata, Weiss, Mee, Cunningham, Guidetti, Ibrahim and Wabara have all had game time. Who's to know how good they will go on to be? They might be better than some of the Liverpool youngsters but our youngsters have significantly more first team players in their way so we just don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I have seen one have one good game and never seen the other have a good game therefore I am in a perfectly good position to comment about having seen one have one good game and never having seen the other have a good game.
    Im sure the management, coaching staff and scouts of the two biggest and most successful clubs in English football must of watched them both more than you. Or if not I best get on to Kenny and Alex and let them know that some City fan has only seen Jones have one good game and Henderson never have a good game!!

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    If you look at the premier league stats Henderson was second only to Malouda in assists last season?
    Think thats what midfielders are for ?
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    I will say this again, more for Wabo's benefit really although DD will no doubt go off on one

    Welbeck and Cleverley coming back on loan, both English.

    Tunnicliffe, Keane, Morrison, possibly Thorpe to come through if not next season, the one after. Thats quite a few produced off the conveyor belt.

    Name 5 English youngsters at City likely to do the same??

    Also by the end of the transfer window, we will have spent significantly less than City (again) who are making unbelievable losses and are fortunate enough to be bankrolled. However should the Sheiks withdraw their interest, City will be up the proverbial.

    Utd's debts are nowhere near as bad as people will have you to believe. We have enormous commercial revenue, in addition to matchday revenue, so are okay thank you very much.

    City have won a trophy now and to listen to some of their fans (not DD I hasten to add) they are now ready for world domination.

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