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Thread: Eastmond and Graham,what difference?

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    One is about a new challenge having won everything on offer over here and the other is about money because he's won nothing in rl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersaint View Post
    One is about a new challenge having won everything on offer over here and the other is about money because he's won nothing in rl.
    I really don't see what is wrong with someone moving jobs for more money? Who wouldn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    I really don't see what is wrong with someone moving jobs for more money? Who wouldn't?
    James Roby? Just a suggestion ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    James Roby? Just a suggestion ...
    As you are obviously privvy to the various offers from other clubs to james roby, please englighten us as to how much more money he was being offered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingtons View Post
    As you are obviously privvy to the various offers from other clubs to james roby, please englighten us as to how much more money he was being offered.
    Um, did James Roby move clubs? Well, blow me. I am convinced I saw him playing for us on Friday night. Must have been his twin.

    Clearly you can't read, or can't be arsed to, so here again is the post I was replying to:

    I really don't see what is wrong with someone moving jobs for more money? Who wouldn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    James Roby? Just a suggestion ...
    Due a testamonial in the next few years (as is jammer) and as none of us know his salary how can any of us guess if he could have got more money elsewhere? Now I'm not say Robes and Jammer don't love saints, but I've yet to see any hint that Kyle doesn't!
    Mr sthelens Keiron very nearly left for union and if the rfl hadn't topped up his wages, he probably would have!

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    I think Roby will be on a very good number at Saints and with the prospect of a testimonial, will probably be financially better off by staying at Saints. The cost of living in Oz is increasing all the time and RU clubs were not interested in him. I bet that the offer from NRL clubs was only marginally better if not the equal of what he is on at Saints, without the prospect of a testimonial and the money that would be earned from that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    Due a testamonial in the next few years (as is jammer) and as none of us know his salary how can any of us guess if he could have got more money elsewhere?
    But, the bloody question was, who wouldn't move for more money, wasn't it? The question wasn't about whether anyone would stay for more money! So in terms of the question asked, James Roby is a good example. We have no idea at all whether Kyle Eastmond has actually been offered more money to move to Union. That's just speculation. He might simply prefer Union to League.

    And given that Kyle, at 21 years old, can save up a 5% deposit for a brand new house along with running a car, etc, would suggest he is not on a small salary at the moment himself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Um, did James Roby move clubs? Well, blow me. I am convinced I saw him playing for us on Friday night. Must have been his twin.

    Clearly you can't read, or can't be arsed to, so here again is the post I was replying to:
    You are making a statement that he wouldnt move for more money. How do you know? To make this statement, you must be privvy to any offers that were on the table and turned down so he would stay at Saints. So obviously its YOU that cannot read. But as you are known for "selective reading", this doesnt surprise me one iota.

    So I ask you again, show me the proof that James Roby wouldnt move for more money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingtons View Post
    You are making a statement that he wouldnt move for more money. How do you know?
    No, I put a question mark at the end. Now, what does that normally mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    But, the bloody question was, who wouldn't move for more money, wasn't it? The question wasn't about whether anyone would stay for more money! So in terms of the question asked, James Roby is a good example. We have no idea at all whether Kyle Eastmond has actually been offered more money to move to Union. That's just speculation. He might simply prefer Union to League.

    And given that Kyle, at 21 years old, can save up a 5% deposit for a brand new house along with running a car, etc, would suggest he is not on a small salary at the moment himself!
    Ok then, why did Roby not say publicly 12 months ago, he would stay at saints for life? because he (rightly) was exploring other options

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    Union v League is hardly a level playing field when it comes to the money available and the media exposure you can gain from playing it at the highest level in this country. I can understand Kyle being tempted, especially with all the attention going Chris Ashton's way, it's easy to forget those who haven't made it. Unfortunately for Kyle over the past couple of years his previous agent spouted off to the press on several occasions about the possibility of him being a union target so we have questioned his commitment since then - it may not have been in question but lapses of form and all the injuries have not helped strengthen his cause. If Kyle is staying, he needs to say so and then show us the way most fans understand best by focusing on the game and helping Saints to have a great season.
    Jammer on the other hand has said openly he would like to test himself in the NRL and I expect him to go. He'd be daft not to. I also wouldn't be surprised to see him go and come back to us in the future. I don't doubt his commitment until then though.

    Whatever happens, both these players have huge potential, but a relatively short time in which to achieve all they want to, whether that's making a lot of money, proving yourself against the best or becoming a great player for whichever code, good luck to them. I hope they stay with us while they do this!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    Ok then, why did Roby not say publicly 12 months ago, he would stay at saints for life? because he (rightly) was exploring other options
    How do you know? You don't know. He said he loved St Helens, he was a home bird, he had a young family and he didn't want to move. He said those things himself to the press. Why is it hard to believe that someone might actually not want to move for money? (And the question was about moving for money, not negotiating for more money with the same club)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Jasper View Post
    Union v League is hardly a level playing field when it comes to the money available and the media exposure you can gain from playing it at the highest level in this country.
    Do you think that Kyle would be offered much more, or in fact anymore, money as a total novice in RU than he would be offered by Saints? The potential for media exposure and/or a competitive international game is another matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    How do you know? You don't know. He said he loved St Helens, he was a home bird, he had a young family and he didn't want to move. He said those things himself to the press. Why is it hard to believe that someone might actually not want to move for money? (And the question was about moving for money, not negotiating for more money with the same club)
    because i know for a fact he took his mrs over to oz after the 4 nations to see how they both liked it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    How do you know? You don't know. He said he loved St Helens, he was a home bird, he had a young family and he didn't want to move. He said those things himself to the press. Why is it hard to believe that someone might actually not want to move for money? (And the question was about moving for money, not negotiating for more money with the same club)
    How do YOU know that Saints didn't offer Roby more money than the Aussies?
    You don't do you?
    Roby himself has never said it, has he?

    FWIW, I expect that Roby has got (and deserved) a very good contract at Saints. He HAS bought a very nice big stone detached house in Billinge, and that didn't come cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    because i know for a fact he took his mrs over to oz after the 4 nations to see how they both liked it
    He told us himself that he took his mrs and child over for a holiday. So what? He also said the decision to sign up with Saints was an easy one for him.

    But again, the question was who wouldn't move for more money and I suggested - note, suggested - that Roby might be such a person. I didn't claim to know anything about his decision. I didn't even make a statement. I just asked the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    He told us himself that he took his mrs and child over for a holiday. So what? He also said the decision to sign up with Saints was an easy one for him.

    But again, the question was who wouldn't move for more money and I suggested - note, suggested - that Roby might be such a person. I didn't claim to know anything about his decision. I didn't even make a statement. I just asked the question.
    Well said.

    Maybe Robes is just a typical St Helens lad and doesnt want to be anywhere else but home. If i was a player of his abilities and played for the team ive supported since i was born, id love to stay at the club forever, no matter what money and who offered what at me. But hey, thats me.
    St. Helens RLFC.... Its your team... And your team needs YOU! :saint:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Um, did James Roby move clubs? Well, blow me. I am convinced I saw him playing for us on Friday night. Must have been his twin.

    Clearly you can't read, or can't be arsed to, so here again is the post I was replying to:
    Its not that he didnt read. Its that whether James Roby moved or not does not prove your point. For it to prove your point you would have to know that he turned down more money, you are not in possession of that information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimmer View Post
    Fans like to think they have an idea of what's going on behind the scenes, so naturally, when a player doesn't play well then his effort is questioned
    Post edited for accuracy! ;-)
    Jammer for Captain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    Its not that he didnt read. Its that whether James Roby moved or not does not prove your point.
    You can't read either. I didn't make a point. I asked a question.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny82007 View Post
    absolutely ridiculous post and incredibly naive.
    A) He showed his commitment Friday with tries and a strong performance
    He has done a hell of a lot for saints;
    - Won the game against wigan at home 2009
    - Scored all our points in 2009 grand final
    - In 19 2010 games scored 14 tries gaining 7 MOM awards
    - Arguably won us 2 academy finals
    - Consistently exciting to watch
    - in 2009 when both he and long were there 90% of posters were chanting for Eastmond to be played ahead o him, It's amazing how quick people forget
    C) Your presumption about wanting the money is outrageous at best, In your job if offered more money you take it, he is looking after himself and his family for the future again how naive of you to believe different and i don't doubt for one second he wont give 100% in this period he is a professional and a good one at that.

    Also you state Graham is to test himslef in australia.... Why is Eastmond unable to test himself at a different sport without getting the same backing from yourself that your giving graham?

    There both great players in a situation looking POTENTIALLY at new challenges and your treating them so different both should be given thorough support and backing from all of us!
    You can dress it up as much as you like, the facts are that Kyle Eastmond has achieved nothing in the game of Rugby League with the exception of a couple of losers medals. If I was him, I’d be busting a gut to put that right. I’d want to leave the sport as a winner, not a loser, and win at least a Grand Final and a Challenge Cup before I go. It’s not as if either are out of the question over the next three years. This year, the Grand Final almost certainly is (in my opinion). If he stayed and achieved great things in our sport, I don’t think I’d begrudge him a big pay day in Union and the chance to play proper international sport instead of the Mickey Mouse affair we have in League, three or four years down the line.

    However, he is 21 years of age. There is plenty of time to achieve great things in both League and Union if he so wishes. Jason Robinson won everything in League and then went on to have a hugely successful career in Union, which made him a nationwide star. However, he waited till he could achieve nothing more in our game before dumping the sport that made his name. Why is Eastmond in such a rush? Time is on his side.

    Kyle Eastmond has been nurtured through the Saints Academy and now just as we are about to see the fruits of our coaching, not only does he wish to shit on by leaving us without a promising young scrum half, he wants to shit on the game of Rugby League by leaving the international side without such a player too.

    James Graham is a different ball game altogether. He has won every team honour in the sport with Saints, one World Club Challenge, one Grand Final and three Challenge Cups. He has represented his country at the highest level in the World Cup and Four Nations. He has achieved everything in club rugby in this country and may now want to prove himself in the best Rugby League competition in the world. Few players of that calibre wouldn’t. Could anyone honestly blame him if he left, and he could still put on the England RL jersey and help do his bit for our sport in our country?

    James Graham might be leaving Saints but he has given us the best years of his career. He has repaid the club that spent time and money bringing him through the ranks many times over. He has nothing to apologise for if he goes to Australia; nothing.

    If he goes, Kyle will have had his head turned by the possibility of fame and fortune. Something that is unlikely given that he will have to completely alter his game to succeed in an alien sport. He will have walked out on us and our sport before he has given anything back to the game. For me, that is criminal. In a couple of years time, he may well then come crawling back. My greatest wish would be for every League club to then turn their back on him, like he is about to do to us, and leave him rotting in the second string at Waterloo.

    James Graham will go with everyone’s best wishes. Kyle Eastmond will go with hardly anyone’s – and rightfully so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    You can dress it up as much as you like, the facts are that Kyle Eastmond has achieved nothing in the game of Rugby League with the exception of a couple of losers medals. If I was him, I’d be busting a gut to put that right. I’d want to leave the sport as a winner, not a loser, and win at least a Grand Final and a Challenge Cup before I go. It’s not as if either are out of the question over the next three years. This year, the Grand Final almost certainly is (in my opinion). If he stayed and achieved great things in our sport, I don’t think I’d begrudge him a big pay day in Union and the chance to play proper international sport instead of the Mickey Mouse affair we have in League, three or four years down the line.

    However, he is 21 years of age. There is plenty of time to achieve great things in both League and Union if he so wishes. Jason Robinson won everything in League and then went on to have a hugely successful career in Union, which made him a nationwide star. However, he waited till he could achieve nothing more in our game before dumping the sport that made his name. Why is Eastmond in such a rush? Time is on his side.

    Kyle Eastmond has been nurtured through the Saints Academy and now just as we are about to see the fruits of our coaching, not only does he wish to shit on by leaving us without a promising young scrum half, he wants to shit on the game of Rugby League by leaving the international side without such a player too.

    James Graham is a different ball game altogether. He has won every team honour in the sport with Saints, one World Club Challenge, one Grand Final and three Challenge Cups. He has represented his country at the highest level in the World Cup and Four Nations. He has achieved everything in club rugby in this country and may now want to prove himself in the best Rugby League competition in the world. Few players of that calibre wouldn’t. Could anyone honestly blame him if he left, and he could still put on the England RL jersey and help do his bit for our sport in our country?

    James Graham might be leaving Saints but he has given us the best years of his career. He has repaid the club that spent time and money bringing him through the ranks many times over. He has nothing to apologise for if he goes to Australia; nothing.

    If he goes, Kyle will have had his head turned by the possibility of fame and fortune. Something that is unlikely given that he will have to completely alter his game to succeed in an alien sport. He will have walked out on us and our sport before he has given anything back to the game. For me, that is criminal. In a couple of years time, he may well then come crawling back. My greatest wish would be for every League club to then turn their back on him, like he is about to do to us, and leave him rotting in the second string at Waterloo.

    James Graham will go with everyone’s best wishes. Kyle Eastmond will go with hardly anyone’s – and rightfully so.
    spot on !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    You can dress it up as much as you like, the facts are that Kyle Eastmond has achieved nothing in the game of Rugby League with the exception of a couple of losers medals. If I was him, I’d be busting a gut to put that right. I’d want to leave the sport as a winner, not a loser, and win at least a Grand Final and a Challenge Cup before I go. It’s not as if either are out of the question over the next three years. This year, the Grand Final almost certainly is (in my opinion). If he stayed and achieved great things in our sport, I don’t think I’d begrudge him a big pay day in Union and the chance to play proper international sport instead of the Mickey Mouse affair we have in League, three or four years down the line.

    However, he is 21 years of age. There is plenty of time to achieve great things in both League and Union if he so wishes. Jason Robinson won everything in League and then went on to have a hugely successful career in Union, which made him a nationwide star. However, he waited till he could achieve nothing more in our game before dumping the sport that made his name. Why is Eastmond in such a rush? Time is on his side.

    Kyle Eastmond has been nurtured through the Saints Academy and now just as we are about to see the fruits of our coaching, not only does he wish to shit on by leaving us without a promising young scrum half, he wants to shit on the game of Rugby League by leaving the international side without such a player too.

    James Graham is a different ball game altogether. He has won every team honour in the sport with Saints, one World Club Challenge, one Grand Final and three Challenge Cups. He has represented his country at the highest level in the World Cup and Four Nations. He has achieved everything in club rugby in this country and may now want to prove himself in the best Rugby League competition in the world. Few players of that calibre wouldn’t. Could anyone honestly blame him if he left, and he could still put on the England RL jersey and help do his bit for our sport in our country?

    James Graham might be leaving Saints but he has given us the best years of his career. He has repaid the club that spent time and money bringing him through the ranks many times over. He has nothing to apologise for if he goes to Australia; nothing.

    If he goes, Kyle will have had his head turned by the possibility of fame and fortune. Something that is unlikely given that he will have to completely alter his game to succeed in an alien sport. He will have walked out on us and our sport before he has given anything back to the game. For me, that is criminal. In a couple of years time, he may well then come crawling back. My greatest wish would be for every League club to then turn their back on him, like he is about to do to us, and leave him rotting in the second string at Waterloo.

    James Graham will go with everyone’s best wishes. Kyle Eastmond will go with hardly anyone’s – and rightfully so.
    As with all of this, this may well be your opinion but it doesnt mean it is necessarily right.
    Even you think he owes something to Saints, in reality he doesnt. If he is not bothered about achieving things in RL first then that is up to him. He has got the chance to go to Union now and if he does then he is perfectly entitled to do that.
    Whilst we will be disappointed as fans to see him go, I just dont buy into the argument that he owes us or the game anything.
    He has to put himself first and if he is ultimately swayed by extra money, fame, international competition or whatever then it is his choice and his only.
    He is not 'shitting' on us or the game.
    If you were offered double your salary or the chance to travel internationally or whatever else may be appealing to you but it was in a different industry, would you stay to be 'loyal' to your industry? If yes then fair enough, good on you, but I suspect for the majority of us the answer would be no!!
    No doubt some disagree with this so lets have another 600 posts on the subject and carry on going round in circles!! ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    You can't read either. I didn't make a point. I asked a question.
    That would have been true if it werent for one thing. When someone objected to Roby being used as an example you made a smart arse reply of "well last time I looked he was still in a Saints shirt" (or words to that effect)

    You would only have used that reply if you were trying to convince us that Roby is such an example. Therefore you are doing more than raising a question.

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