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Thread: Eastmond and Graham,what difference?

  1. #1
    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    Default Eastmond and Graham,what difference?

    Just thought what is the real difference between Kyle and Jammer's situations,people seem to be almost demanding to know whether Kyle will be going now,in October or at all with no mention of Jammer. The only real differences I can see is Kyle could be leaving Saints and RL without in fairness achieving anything whereas Jammer has won every trophy available,won man of steel and captained his country but the reasons why will have little or no impact on our squad for 2012,maybe the fact that Kyle is a scrum half comes into it as it's probably harder to find a top quality no.7 than a prop I don't know? but that isn't really Kyle's fault he's a no.7. TBH I think we need both to make their intentions clear so we don't get left behind in searching for possible replacements

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    Starting A Programme Collection danny82007's Avatar
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    I personally feel it is essential we keep both! There two key players for different reasons and were key to our success in the first half of last year and graham for the whole year. Graham is unique in his position and provides so much to the team, making him almost non-replaceable. Whereas Kyle has shown over two years he has the potential to be imo the best 7 in the world. i think Roby signing will help graham choose a similar decision as they are really close and i also feel that Kyle may not be helped with a lot of figures being thrown at him after a £ sign at such a young age. We as fans need to lay off him, im sure he is discussing options with friends, family and people in similar positions previously such as KC and time will allow him to make the correct decision whatever that may be for him. If he goes i will be mightily dis-appointed as a fan but will not hold any dis-respect towards him if i was in a position in a job to move roles for a much bigger money sum loyalty to my department as it where, would not enter my head, and this is the situation he is in. If he decides to stay thats fantastic and a credit to him and the club.

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    Got A Season Ticket The Captain's Avatar
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    Personally I think it is just the whole way the saga has been played out with regards to Kyle. It seems as though the club has been 'held to ransom' to a certain extent each time his contract negotiation has come around, with the big threat of a code switch played out in the media. Maybe it would be tolerated slightly more from someone whom has been at the club 5/6 years and contributed to the teams success?

    You are right nobody can demand anybody makes an important decision such as this just because we want to know now. But the player himself has fueled the discussions, with his statements in the press.

    I think Jammers situation is not debated as much due to the fact that nobody can doubt his commitment to the cause. He has been there and done it for us. However we have had very little return from Kyle, a few flashes of occasional exciting moments.

    It would be great if both signed up long term and this could be put to bed. Their signings along with that of Roby and the two recent signings of LMS and Shenton, would really set us up for the next few years.

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    Got A Season Ticket thestatman's Avatar
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    Ask yourself afew questions:

    What would their childhood dreams have been?

    Both = Become great rugby league players.

    What are their reasons for leaving?

    James Graham = To test himself Australia and should he suceed become one of the all time great RL players.

    Kyle Eastmond = To get rich and famous by attempting to play a sport he has probably never even played before.

    What have they done for Saints?

    James Graham = Lots

    Kyle Eastmond = Not Much

    What will their commitment to Saints be should they decided they are leaving at the end of the season?

    James Graham = 100% unquestioned

    Kyle Eastmond = Who knows?

    I don't think anyone would begrudge James Graham the opportunity to go and test himself in the NRL. Nowadays it is the only way to get the recognition of being a truly great RL player.

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    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    Fair point about the media and what drives them as players,as said if leaves Jammer he will want to test himself rather than for the money and fame

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    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestatman View Post
    Ask yourself afew questions:

    What would their childhood dreams have been?

    Both = Become great rugby league players.

    What are their reasons for leaving?

    James Graham = To test himself Australia and should he suceed become one of the all time great RL players.

    Kyle Eastmond = To get rich and famous by attempting to play a sport he has probably never even played before.

    What have they done for Saints?

    James Graham = Lots

    Kyle Eastmond = Not Much

    What will their commitment to Saints be should they decided they are leaving at the end of the season?

    James Graham = 100% unquestioned

    Kyle Eastmond = Who knows?

    I don't think anyone would begrudge James Graham the opportunity to go and test himself in the NRL. Nowadays it is the only way to get the recognition of being a truly great RL player.
    Excellent post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    Excellent post
    Not really, it was highly subjective. The only negative thing about Eastmond was some speculation that he is leaving for money. It could just as easily be that Eastmond is leaving to test himself in a higher profile game which has a larger international exposure. If this was the case then he is no different to James Graham in terms of why he is leaving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyl View Post
    Not really, it was highly subjective. The only negative thing about Eastmond was some speculation that he is leaving for money. It could just as easily be that Eastmond is leaving to test himself in a higher profile game which has a larger international exposure. If this was the case then he is no different to James Graham in terms of why he is leaving.
    100 % agree with you on that.

  9. #9
    In The South Stand Tallahassee's Avatar
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    Default Eastmond and Graham,what difference?

    We could all like a bit foolish,if Eastmond does stay after all .

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    Starting A Programme Collection danny82007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestatman View Post
    Ask yourself afew questions:

    What would their childhood dreams have been?

    Both = Become great rugby league players.

    What are their reasons for leaving?

    James Graham = To test himself Australia and should he suceed become one of the all time great RL players.

    Kyle Eastmond = To get rich and famous by attempting to play a sport he has probably never even played before.

    What have they done for Saints?

    James Graham = Lots

    Kyle Eastmond = Not Much

    What will their commitment to Saints be should they decided they are leaving at the end of the season?

    James Graham = 100% unquestioned

    Kyle Eastmond = Who knows?

    I don't think anyone would begrudge James Graham the opportunity to go and test himself in the NRL. Nowadays it is the only way to get the recognition of being a truly great RL player.
    absolutely ridiculous post and incredibly naive.
    A) He showed his commitment Friday with tries and a strong performance
    He has done a hell of a lot for saints;
    - Won the game against wigan at home 2009
    - Scored all our points in 2009 grand final
    - In 19 2010 games scored 14 tries gaining 7 MOM awards
    - Arguably won us 2 academy finals
    - Consistently exciting to watch
    - in 2009 when both he and long were there 90% of posters were chanting for Eastmond to be played ahead o him, It's amazing how quick people forget
    C) Your presumption about wanting the money is outrageous at best, In your job if offered more money you take it, he is looking after himself and his family for the future again how naive of you to believe different and i don't doubt for one second he wont give 100% in this period he is a professional and a good one at that.

    Also you state Graham is to test himslef in australia.... Why is Eastmond unable to test himself at a different sport without getting the same backing from yourself that your giving graham?

    There both great players in a situation looking POTENTIALLY at new challenges and your treating them so different both should be given thorough support and backing from all of us!

  11. #11
    Learning All The Songs
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    Right here's my thoughts (though to be honest I'm getting a bit sick of the whole thing now):

    Firstly I'd like to make it clear that I would be absolutely made up if both signed new deals, they're both fantastic young players who have their best years ahead of them

    There are however a couple of significant differences between the way the situation has panned out for each of them. Not only have we been through this once before with Eastmond just a year or two ago it seems like the whole saga is being played out through the media. Now I'm not saying this is entirely Eastmond's fault, I imagine a large proportion is down to his agent and Union clubs looking for media attention, however it does give the impression to your average Joe that the whole thing is about money and nothing else

    Compare that to Graham who quite openly stated from the off that playing in the NRL was something he'd love to try but that he was commited to Saints and would have to make an incredibly difficult decision. Have we heard a peep since? Not a dicky bird, and that's how it should be

    I can see why both players would seriously consider a move. In Union Eastmond could set him and his family up for life, prolong his career and potentially become involved in a much higher profile international sport

    Graham would be playing at the highest club RL level week in week out (anyone who says SL is anywhere near NRL quality on a consistent basis is either blind or an idiot) and surely that would be any ambitious players dream

    The other thing to consider is that Graham has clearly given absolutely everything to this club over the past few years, his commitment and effort in every single game is obvious to anyone with half a brain cell. Eastmond on the other hand has been incredibly unlucky with injuries since Longy left and hasn't yet shown his full potential

    As I said I really hope both players stay, neither would be easy to replace (I'd go so far as to say replacing Graham is nigh on impossible), but at the end of the day they wouldn't be the first and they won't be the last

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    First, yaunion is hardly a test if your a top rugby league player. And his performances have been a bit effortless to say the least.

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    Learning All The Songs HitTheWall's Avatar
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    There's a massive difference to your number 7 leaving and a prop leaving, albeit a damn good prop. 7 is a pivotal position and quality halfbacks are hard to come by, that's why Saints have spent the last 8 or 9 years bringing him through the ranks and the last 4 years slowly grooming him as a replacement for Long. Props are replaceable, although we'd be hard pushed to find a player with the same committment, passion and work ethic as Jammer, but we could find an adequate replacement. It's much, much harder to replace your halfback, and that's why the club needs to know sharpish.
    "If you think training is hard, try losing"

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    Learning All The Songs wardies love child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yorkyrl View Post
    First, yaunion is hardly a test if your a top rugby league player. And his performances have been a bit effortless to say the least.
    Agree as he ain't a top RL player but has the potential to be one. He has achieved little as a RL player but again has the potential to be quality and even legend greatness. He's been nurtured well and has a great raw talent with attitude I like on the pitch. If he leaves it would seem to me he leaves without achieving the dream I expect he had of being the best.
    Jammer has achieved the lot in his stint here and can only achieve more in the Nrl. He will be thinking how good can I be against the nrl opposition.
    Reality kicks in when you get older with commitments and cash being a bigger motivation whereas dreams become distant. I think jammer could get both in the NRL but Kyle for me will only get money and if it goes well sure he'll get greatness but his dreams would not have been to be a union great otherwise he'd have played it as a kid. He's old enough to achieve his childhood dreams and still move on.

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    In The South Stand Albion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitTheWall View Post
    There's a massive difference to your number 7 leaving and a prop leaving, albeit a damn good prop. 7 is a pivotal position and quality halfbacks are hard to come by, that's why Saints have spent the last 8 or 9 years bringing him through the ranks and the last 4 years slowly grooming him as a replacement for Long. Props are replaceable, although we'd be hard pushed to find a player with the same committment, passion and work ethic as Jammer, but we could find an adequate replacement. It's much, much harder to replace your halfback, and that's why the club needs to know sharpish.
    Exactly what I was going to say having got through all the responses haha.

    Graham is more replaceable than Kyle, it's that simple for me. Yes, I'd love Graham to sign but due to his position, he will be easier to replace, so as Hit the wall says, we need to put plans into action immediately - half backs are so hard to pluck out than a workhorse in your front row.

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    Learning All The Songs Saint Simon's Avatar
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    I really don't see what Kyle has done to deserve all this, every time he plays, he give 100% yes he's not the finished article, but I don't see how people can question his effort?

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    In The South Stand Albion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    I really don't see what Kyle has done to deserve all this
    That is what happens when you don't play well.

    Fans have an idea of what's going on behind the scenes, so naturally, when a player doesn't play well then his effort is questioned

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    Learning All The Songs Saint Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimmer View Post
    That is what happens when you don't play well.

    Fans have an idea of what's going on behind the scenes, so naturally, when a player doesn't play well then his effort is questioned
    He's only just back from injury FFS!

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    In The South Stand Albion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    He's only just back from injury FFS!
    I've not said anything about me expecting him to have a good game, I wouldn't expect him to after 6months out effectively.

    I was grouping fans in general as that seems to be the consensus on here.

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    Learning All The Songs HitTheWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    I really don't see what Kyle has done to deserve all this, every time he plays, he give 100% yes he's not the finished article, but I don't see how people can question his effort?
    I agree. I don't think we can question his effort yet based on his latest performances. From what I've seen of him in the three games he's played, he's done well. No lack of effort, he had a hand in three tries and scored two on Friday. For a player who has just come back from a horrendous run of injuries which have undoubtedly knocked his confidence, and playing alongside a very inexperienced youngster, he did extremely well. As you say he's not the finished article, and he didn't take the line on as much but I reckon that's more a confidence issue than a lack of effort. Once he's more confident after getting a few games under his belt, I'm sure we'll see more of that flair we saw at the beginning of last season. The only thing I'd fault him on from Friday is not bothering to chase the Salford player when he knocked on with a try begging, but I'm sure someone will have a word in his ear for it and he'll learn the error of his ways. That was more a laziness thing knowing that Saints were way in front I reckon, not a lack of effort because he may not be here next season.

    I understand the need to know Kyle's decision more than Jammer's on the club's part, but not the flak he's recieving because of this supposed lack of effort.
    "If you think training is hard, try losing"

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    Learning All The Songs Saint Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimmer View Post
    I've not said anything about me expecting him to have a good game, I wouldn't expect him to after 6months out effectively.

    I was grouping fans in general as that seems to be the consensus on here.
    Sorry that wasn't aimed at you, just the feckwits who think that a)Kyle should have perfect games every game after 6 months out and b) that they wouldn't change jobs for less work and more money!

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    The other thing is that Graham would never get a RU gig.

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    Starting A Programme Collection danny82007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Simon View Post
    Sorry that wasn't aimed at you, just the feckwits who think that a)Kyle should have perfect games every game after 6 months out and b) that they wouldn't change jobs for less work and more money!
    im right with you Simon i think its stupidity to believe otherwise

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    Heineken and European Challenge Cups, 6 Nations, World Cups with more than 3 competitive teams, tours all over the world, British and Irish Lions. Hard to see the appeal of union over league really.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    The difference? Eastmond has kept his mouth shut about wanting to play union, whilst graham would tell anyone with a microphone how he wants to play in the NRL
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