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Thread: 2010 World Cup

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    In The West Stand Talk some sense!'s Avatar
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    Default 2010 World Cup

    Now the season is over it's time to start really looking forward to the world cup, as is usually the case i'm optimistic about Englands chances but that optimism is usually found to be misplaced!

    No matter what though a big football tournament always creates a good atmosphere out and about and I remember back in 2002 watching some of the games in Japan at the Gerrard at silly hours in the morning - packed out though. Hopefully this summer will be the same and maybe, just maybe England can give us an added reason to enjoy it!!

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    The World Cup and Euro's is an absolute dream for me (and many others I'm sure). Football is on every single day for a couple of weeks and having England there is the icing on the cake.

    I don't think we've got much of a chance of winning to be honest. My hope was on Wayne Rooney but his form seems to have dipped a bit as he's picked up a few injuries. Hopefully he'll be OK, because if he hits form we've got half a chance. If he doesn't, we've got no chance. Too many questions and doubts for me especially with the goalkeepers and the defence. Ferdinand has barely played, Johnson has barely played and when he has he's been rubbish. Cole and Terry are reliable and I'd plump for Ledley King personally, who IMO is the best defender we have. He has his injury doubts, but he's been phenomenal recently. We have a fairly strong midfield and front line though, but Lennon has barely played and Gerrard has been hit and miss. Will Joe Cole play? Gareth Barry? Do we have quality cover in the midfield?

    What would everyone's 23 man squad be for England?

    Mine:

    GK - James, Green, Hart

    Def - G. Johnson, Cole, Ferdinand, Terry, King, Jagielka, Baines, Carragher (being mooted apparently - if not I'd pick an extra midfielder such as Adam Johnson with Milner as right back cover).

    Mid - Lennon, Barry, Lampard, Gerrard, J. Cole, Milner, Parker, Walcott

    St - Rooney, Crouch, Defoe, Zamora
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    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
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    Will get caned for this by the likes of DD, but it will be another false dawn for England. Quarter finals maybe and a chance for the tabloids to whip the country into a frenzy, face paintings, flags etc. The phrase "brave England lions" and "lionhearts" will be trotted out again, and then we will wait for the country to riot and blame whichever player they hold responsible, when we get knocked out. If its a Utd player, then even better, as the ABU brigade can make those effigies again to hang in those wonderful Cockerney boozers.

    Meanwhile a technically superior country will win it. Spain for me, all the way.

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    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
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    On a serious note, we should make this a sticky.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Will get caned for this by the likes of DD, but it will be another false dawn for England. Quarter finals maybe and a chance for the tabloids to whip the country into a frenzy, face paintings, flags etc. The phrase "brave England lions" and "lionhearts" will be trotted out again, and then we will wait for the country to riot and blame whichever player they hold responsible, when we get knocked out. If its a Utd player, then even better, as the ABU brigade can make those effigies again to hang in those wonderful Cockerney boozers.

    Meanwhile a technically superior country will win it. Spain for me, all the way.
    You won't get caned for saying England aren't good enough because they aren't. It's the anti-United paranoia thing I laugh at.

    United fans are such girl's blouses, it's beyond embarrassing. I have been at Great Britain RL games where Saints players have been lambasted left, right and centre but it doesn't mean to say that I won't support them because of the idiotic few.

    It's because United fans are such touchy souls that the poor mites get picked on. Then, the more you wave other countries fans as a result, the more people pick on you again.

    It's your country like you United are your club. You don't stop following United because the MIB beat up girls in the street. By the same token, you rise above what the minority of England fans do too.
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    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    You won't get caned for saying England aren't good enough because they aren't. It's the anti-United paranoia thing I laugh at.

    United fans are such girl's blouses, it's beyond embarrassing. I have been at Great Britain RL games where Saints players have been lambasted left, right and centre but it doesn't mean to say that I won't support them because of the idiotic few.

    It's because United fans are such touchy souls that the poor mites get picked on. Then, the more you wave other countries fans as a result, the more people pick on you again.

    It's your country like you United are your club. You don't stop following United because the MIB beat up girls in the street. By the same token, you rise above what the minority of England fans do too.
    To be honest mate, although I mentioned the Utd players above, its less about the Utd players getting booed now, as the likes of Rooney now get a good reception. Its just the whole Ingerland factor and I just cant bring myself to cheer on the likes of Cole, Lampard and most of all Terry. I spend all season hating these players and just cant get my head around cheering them on. Thats just me and my opinion, I dont expect you to agree and I know some Utd season ticket holders who love watching England.

    Its just the football as where Cricket, Rugby and the Olympics are concerned for example, then I am very patriotic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    To be honest mate, although I mentioned the Utd players above, its less about the Utd players getting booed now, as the likes of Rooney now get a good reception. Its just the whole Ingerland factor and I just cant bring myself to cheer on the likes of Cole, Lampard and most of all Terry. I spend all season hating these players and just cant get my head around cheering them on. Thats just me and my opinion, I dont expect you to agree and I know some Utd season ticket holders who love watching England.

    Its just the football as where Cricket, Rugby and the Olympics are concerned for example, then I am very patriotic.

    Same here, Wright-Phillips included!

    Seriously tho' the levels of heart over head judgement whn the world cup is on are ridiculous.

    If England make the Quarters then that would be a result, I dont think we're in the top 5/6 teams in the world, we're just not good enough, despite how good the papers tell us the premier league is and how great Gerrard Lampard Roonet et al are, when we come up against a more techincally gifted side, we just cant hold onto the ball.

    But I do think the Winner could be any one of 5 or 6 nations, I dont think theres an out an out favourite like in the past, Spain and Brazil will be there or thereabout, France, Germany and Italy all do traditionally well, the Argies have a great squad but a buffoon in charge, theres the Holland, Portugal, dark horses like Serbia and the Ivory Coast.
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    I think the England team we've got at present are a much different prospect with a tactically astute manager in place, I don't go with the whole 'England aren't good enough' business because they have the players capable indicidually of operating sucsessfully on the world stage but the issue has always been getting them to play as a team. There have been signs under Capello so far that he's getting them to play more as a team and results would seem to point to this.

    I'm a big Manchester United fan and whilst usually supporting the likes of John Terry, Steven Gerrard etc would never be entertained when it comes to England i'm happy to get behind them. Much like when Great Britain play I get behind each player regardless of where they play their club rugby. I don't think this makes me any less of a fan of my respective club team though. It's a opportunity that we don't often get to all get behind one team and have a common goal and no matter where you watch the games there's a nice atmosphere usually and it's liek one big party with everybody celebrating teh same thing. The party generally doesn't last that long with England but this year i'd love us to take it to teh final and the buzz around the country would be unreal - there's nothing else in my mind that can bring a group of people together like sport can.

    Now with regards to the 30 man squad that's been anounced - my only surprise is Jagielka has been overlooked and Carragher begged to come back. Carragher it would seem now is a cert to be in the 23 man squad because you'd find it hard to believe Capello would ask him to come back only to not take him to SA.

    Looking at other teams, there are a lot of good players who won't be in South Africa this summer Ronaldinho, Cambiasso & Benzema being just a few who I think would make the England squad but haven't been selected for their respective countries, that either says a lot for other teams strength in depth or our lack of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Its just the football as where Cricket, Rugby and the Olympics are concerned for example, then I am very patriotic.
    I'm the same, I find it hard to explain it. I don't want them to lose and will be genuinely happy if they do well, but I don't get even remotely emotional about our national football team and haven't for a long time.

    Onto the subject in hand, I think England can make the last 4 but they have to win their group and get an easier passage IMO. Its the middle of their Winter so the weather shouldn't be an issue, and really its down to who they play in the latter stages.

    I still go by the old fact that a European nation has never won a World Cup outside Europe and so because of that I'll go with Brasil, but Spain are obviously the other real contender. I have a sneaky feeling Argentina will confound all the negativity around them and all the nonsense selections of Diego and make the semi's and could be a real darkhorse (if Argentina can ever be a dark horse).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'm the same, I find it hard to explain it. I don't want them to lose and will be genuinely happy if they do well, but I don't get even remotely emotional about our national football team and haven't for a long time.
    Perfectly summed up pal, same as myself. I can't see past Spain tbh. When you look at their starting 11 and the fact that Fabregas would not start for them, then it shows the quality they have. If they dont capitulate for some reason, they will take some stopping. Torres (if fit) and Villa are full of goals and when you look at Puyol, Pique, Ramos, Marcello and Casillas as your back 5, then thats pretty awesome. Then you have Xavi (if fit), Iniesta and Silva as part of the midfield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Perfectly summed up pal, same as myself. I can't see past Spain tbh. When you look at their starting 11 and the fact that Fabregas would not start for them, then it shows the quality they have. If they dont capitulate for some reason, they will take some stopping. Torres (if fit) and Villa are full of goals and when you look at Puyol, Pique, Ramos, Marcello and Casillas as your back 5, then thats pretty awesome. Then you have Xavi (if fit), Iniesta and Silva as part of the midfield.
    Yep, from 1 to 11 Spain are by far the most talented team and obviously have lifted the albatross off their backs by winning Euro 2008 so they have a great chance.

    I still think Brasil will be the team to beat, although from watching some of their qualifiers they may not exactly be the flowing dream team that some hope they'll be. Dunga has built that team to be strong and hard to beat, and it has worked although some back in Brasil bemoan the negativity.

    If they play the same way at the World Cup then I hope they'll come a cropper and if that happens then England's half of the draw opens up for them massively. I also reckon an African nation will reach the QF's which will be good for the tournament, and I have a sneaky feeling Holland will also do quite well. I know they are always a big name but they've been under the radar a bit and may shock a few.

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    John Terry looks to be a doubt at the minute with rumours of a suspected metatarsal break - why not 3 months ago?

    Back to the competition Argenitina for me have possibly the best attacking lineup in world football, Tevez, Higuain, Milito, Aguero & Messi would get into any team in the world and Maradona has to try and get the best out of each of them - mysteriously though he's likely to take the old timer Martin Palermo to SA and give him gametime which is odd as Higuain and Milito would be the two to take up a target man role. This means Lavezzi who I like the look of won't make it.

    Despite the abundance of attacking options they're woefully short in midfield with Seba Veron at about 34 being asked to control things, he's no doubt a very good player but at this level he might just struggle. The fact they've got a 'weak' midfield makes the fact Cambiasso & Banega haven't been included even more curious especially as they've both had cracking seasons.

    Then they've the defence - I'm not sure exactly how they'll cope at the back but if their centre backs are Demichellis & Samuel then they could well be exposed as both are prone to silly mistakes.

    Against the weaker teams I can see them running riot but when it comes to the more testing games then their deficiencies in midfield and at the back may well be exposed scuppering any hopes they have of winning it.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    To be honest mate, although I mentioned the Utd players above, its less about the Utd players getting booed now, as the likes of Rooney now get a good reception. Its just the whole Ingerland factor and I just cant bring myself to cheer on the likes of Cole, Lampard and most of all Terry. I spend all season hating these players and just cant get my head around cheering them on.
    Arrrghhh!! That really irritates me.

    I used hate Terry Newton with a passion, but when he played for OUR country I would cheer him on.

    I just don't get your approach at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Arrrghhh!! That really irritates me.

    I used hate Terry Newton with a passion, but when he played for OUR country I would cheer him on.

    I just don't get your approach at all.
    Fair do's mate but then I don't get yours either!

    And am sure Veron is about 37/38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Fair do's mate but then I don't get yours either!

    And am sure Veron is about 37/38
    proud to be english i assume

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    I've never seen how pride in your country has anything to do with following players who you hate for 11 months of the year just because they were born on the same island as us. Pride in your country is trying to make it a better place, trying to act the right way, working hard for the benefit of your country, community, street etc.

    Merely following the football team for one month and saying its patriotism is just lazy IMO. I get slagged off by people down here for not loving our national football team and get called unpatriotic by people who do absolutely nothing for the benefit of the country whilst I give up hours of my free-time volunteering with London Citizens, attending endless politcal meetings and lots more just to try and make this a better country. That is patriotism. Yet apparently to them they love England more than me because they follow the national team, its ridiculous and wrong-headed.

    I despise the likes of Terry and Cole but will begrudgingly wish them the best because I know England doing well will make people happy. But I'm not going to get all emotional and start loving them for a month just because they pull on a white shirt and I certainly don't think its in anyway un-patriotic to not follow them wholeheartedly.

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    The whole being patriotic business is a funny one, i'd say I was quite a patriotic person but I don't do half of what you do. I think each person has their own take on what it means to be patriotic, for some it'll be getting behind the national teams in whatever sport it may be, for others it'll be because they sit and watch the queens speech every year without fail and others like yourself will be a more measurable kind. It's unfair though to say that one person is less patriotic than another because they don't involve themselves in any one of the aspects mentioned above.

    For example voting, that's in essence a very patriotic thing to do however 50% of the country don't vote. Many of that 50% i'd imagine will be wearing an england shirt during the summer and getting right behind the team. It's a discussion that I don't think anybody can come out on top of.

    Anyhows getting back onto the matter in hand, John Terrys injury scare proved to be nothing - how many times during the next month do you think we'll have a national disaster on our hands when one of the players picks up a slight knock in training!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    proud to be english i assume
    Not really no. If it wasn't for my family being here and them not wanting to move, I would be off like a shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk some sense! View Post
    The whole being patriotic business is a funny one, i'd say I was quite a patriotic person but I don't do half of what you do. I think each person has their own take on what it means to be patriotic, for some it'll be getting behind the national teams in whatever sport it may be, for others it'll be because they sit and watch the queens speech every year without fail and others like yourself will be a more measurable kind. It's unfair though to say that one person is less patriotic than another because they don't involve themselves in any one of the aspects mentioned above.
    I didn't mean to sound like I was preaching and I certainly wasn't aiming it at anyone on here or anything I had read. Its just that I get alot of it down here in London and it winds me up no end. I'm not for a second saying that people shouldn't follow England, its obviously a perfectly natural thing to want your country to do well in a sport you follow. I was just making the point that some think that there is something wrong if you don't follow the national team which IMO isn't a particularly fair way of gauging someones love or lack of towards their country.

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    Oh I didn't think you were preaching - I can certainly appreciate where you are coming from.

    Apparently England are looking at playing 352 during the WC if Gareth Barry doesn't make it, which I think has the potential to work however could leave us exposed against bigger teams if each of the players wasn't sure on how to play their role. I'd imagine it'd look something like this

    Hart
    Carragher Ferdinand Terry
    Johnson Cole
    Milner Lampard Gerrard

    Rooney
    Heskey

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    Default England's defence

    Was in an argument with a scot guy earlier he works with me but I said England have the best defence in the world cup. he shot me down. now am struggling to look at abetter defence than englands.

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    Matter of opinion really but you could probably argue that spain, brazil and italy have better defences than we do.

    I'd say Ferdinand and Ashley Cole are world class. Glen Johnson is great going forward but pretty poor defensively. Terry has declined in the past year for me and against Japan he misjudged far too many headers and was very slow to get across and block shots when needed. I'd probably start with King as I think he looked much more composed when he was playing against Mexico. A pretty good defence overall but I don't think you could say outright it was the best defence in the world cup.

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    On paper it is as good as they get in the World Cup, but obviously Terry has his issues, Rio hasn't been fully fit and Johnson isn't an out and out defender. Also, without a recognised definite No.1 you have to take the defence as a whole including the Keeper. In that respect Spain and Brazil have an edge in terms of form and settled side. But if whoever plays in goal, Johnson, Cole, Rio and Terry all stay fit and play well then England will be succesful.

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    Think england will progress thru their group easily enough .Semi-final is my guess.I honestly believe that in defence centrally we can be all over the place at times.Need good protection from midfield.Hope i get proved wrong though.
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    Ferdinand out ! 5 across the middle now or what.How would people re-shape the team now?
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