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Thread: The Smoking Ban

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldwidesaint View Post
    Or rather, a persons right to have a pint without having to breath the foul air of the inconsiderate numpties of society.

    In peace, after a hard days work. Obviously.
    But its the same old argument. ALL pubs could have had a section for smokers, properly sectioned and ventilated away from the rest of the public. The whole point is that pubs were never given the option. There was no need for a blanket ban but it happened anyway and now traditional boozers are paying the price. Why do smokers have to be sent outside like a social pariah? Smokers have rights too. There is no firm concrete evidence that 2nd hand smoke causes any of the alleged illnesses that were used to justify the ban.
    Smokers vs non smokers is turning into a fascist war. Seems like the non smokers want to take it a step further though. No content with people being banned from the pub and having to go outside,they are now complaining about the fact that people are outside smoking and they have to walk through it!! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by guruofsteel View Post
    But its the same old argument. ALL pubs could have had a section for smokers, properly sectioned and ventilated away from the rest of the public. The whole point is that pubs were never given the option. There was no need for a blanket ban but it happened anyway and now traditional boozers are paying the price. Why do smokers have to be sent outside like a social pariah? Smokers have rights too. There is no firm concrete evidence that 2nd hand smoke causes any of the alleged illnesses that were used to justify the ban.
    I think Roy Castle would have summat say about that.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by guruofsteel View Post
    But its the same old argument. ALL pubs could have had a section for smokers, properly sectioned and ventilated away from the rest of the public. The whole point is that pubs were never given the option. There was no need for a blanket ban but it happened anyway and now traditional boozers are paying the price. Why do smokers have to be sent outside like a social pariah? Smokers have rights too. There is no firm concrete evidence that 2nd hand smoke causes any of the alleged illnesses that were used to justify the ban.
    Smokers vs non smokers is turning into a fascist war. Seems like the non smokers want to take it a step further though. No content with people being banned from the pub and having to go outside,they are now complaining about the fact that people are outside smoking and they have to walk through it!! lol
    Why the f**k should I have to breathe in someones smoke when I am out for a beer? Why should I even have to walk through a haze of smoke. If you want to smoke, then do it in the comfort of your own home and turn your walls and ceilings yellow.

    Its absolutely brilliant now, to be able to go out on a night and come back in without having to have a shower to wash the smell off you. This country does a lot of things wrong. Political correctness and Health and Safety gone mad etc, but one of the best things it ever did was to introduce the smoking ban.

    And as above, Roy Castle who by all accounts never smoked, yet died of lung cancer. Do the maths and check your facts better next time.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guruofsteel View Post
    Knuckle dragger eh? Obviously your super moderator status allows you to rise above the rules everyone else has to adhere to (when it suits)
    Anyway!
    They shouldn't cater for children. I'm sorry mate but I'm a big believer in the fact that children shouldn't be in pubs.
    Any family that takes a child under the legal drinking age into a pub is both irresponsible and selfish.
    Do we have Boys Brigade,Scouts,Brownies etc etc meetings in pubs? No and wonder why. The only reason a family takes a child under 18 into a pub is because the parents selfishly want to have a drink. Thats an adults entitlement, I don't deny it, and you can if you want but its hardly putting your childs need 1st is it.
    At least they can sit there bored watching you get drunk without the smoky haze though!!!lollol
    Right so you are a firm believer that children should not be allowed in pubs and I am a firm believer that smoking should not be allowed in pubs. Well, at least the country backs me up rather than you. lol

    Why should children not be allowed in places where people serve alcohol. People should be allowed to sit down and have a family meal whilst being able to consume whatever beverage they choose. Such behaviour (unless the parents plan to get bladdered) is not going to affect the children's health.

    I have been to the Lymewood on more than one occasion with girlfriend and children and not an alcoholic beverage has been consumed so that shoots that idiotic argument of yours down in flames. The vast majority don't drink there, in fact, judging by the masses of cars outside.

    The smoking, of course, can affect your health though. Let's go beyond the absurd suggestion that there is no evidence that second hand smoke cannot cause serious diseases, it can, and does, have implications for those that suffer with asthma and other respiritory diseases, and workers have those too you know, not just those who choose to be with fellow anti-social human beings.

    As it happens, there was nothing wrong with my use of the word "knuckle-dragger" in the context it was used, as it was not aimed at a specific person. If, however, I decided it was fair game, then you'd be the first to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post

    And as above, Roy Castle who by all accounts never smoked, yet died of lung cancer.
    Funny innit I know a bloke who never owned a car and didn't drive getting knocked down and killed by one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Why should children not be allowed in places where people serve alcohol. People should be allowed to sit down and have a family meal whilst being able to consume whatever beverage they choose. Such behaviour (unless the parents plan to get bladdered) is not going to affect the children's health.
    To be fair Dave you are describing a restaraunt rather than a Pub in the traditional sense of the word! Semantics I know!

    Thing is for everyone one of these corporate monsters that appear a small local business run by local people takes the hit and unfortunately we have become so comsumerised that community and feeling a belonging to an area/place/people is going, if not already gone out of the window. In the case of Lymewood, they offer nothing different whatsoever than what the Ship Inn has been doing so for a long time! Unfortunately for them the cost of products to them from their Pub Co is probably not far short of what Lymwood charge over the counter and they are unable to compete.

    This is the point I bring with regards to the Pub Co's, for those who do not know these are the Property Companies who bought up thousands of Pubs when the Brewery's were forced to sell due to the governments beer orders in 1989 and are in effect just middle men in a supply chain charging a huge commission to everyone. if the Pub Co's truely acted like a pertnership, helped the tennant thrive and be able to re-invest in their business and re-invest in facilities and products then perhaps thousands of the reported 52 pubs per week closing would have a fighting chance against the big boys and many arguments I here from people such as, price, decor, facilities, product range for going to these bag in a box establishments would be addressed.

    As I have said before, hopefully something is done before what was/is and should be in the future a Great British institution is lost for ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrass View Post
    Funny innit I know a bloke who never owned a car and didn't drive getting knocked down and killed by one.
    But you accept that it was another person's car that killed him, yes? So what's the point?
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    the ship is going down the pan from what i have heard. that will be a sad day

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    I know that J & J are doing their best but it is hard when going up against the likes of Lymewood and Bargain bucket Pubs nearby when all the time you are fighting with 1 hand behind your back.

    Best of luck to them, nice people!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    And as above, Roy Castle who by all accounts never smoked, yet died of lung cancer. Do the maths and check your facts better next time.
    Yes Roy Castle died of lung cancer but it was never proven that secondary smoking was the cause...it was just assumed!!

    Have a quick read of this article:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...ul-476472.html

    And here is a small part of it:
    Reputable research shows that a non-smoker inhales between a 500th and 1,000th of the toxins inhaled by the smoker himself. No matter what poor Roy Castle believed about the effects of years in smoky jazz clubs, there is little scientific proof that secondary smoke causes cancer.

    Also read this from the British Medical Journal
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057

    The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.

    What makes this study more significant than any other is that it took place over a 39 year period, and studied the results of non-smokers who lived with smokers..... meaning these non-smokers were exposed to secondhand smoke up to 24 hours per day; 365 days per year for 39 years. And there was still no relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality.

    This report was of course silenced in the media; however in light of the damage to business, jobs, and the economy from smoking bans the BMJ report should be revisited by lawmakers as a reference tool and justification to repeal the now unnecessary and very damaging smoking ban laws.

    Also significant is the World Health Organization (WHO) study which concluded "..secondhand smoking doesn't cause cancer..."

    Excerpt:

    Passive smoking doesn't cause cancer - official
    By Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent

    The results are consistent with their being no additional risk for a person living or working with a smoker and could be consistent with passive smoke having a protective effect against lung cancer. The summary, seen by The Telegraph, also states: "There was no association between lung cancer risk and ETS exposure during childhood."

    And if lawmakers need additional real world data to further highlight the need to eliminate these onerous and arbitrary laws, air quality testing by Johns Hopkins University, the American Cancer Society, a Minnesota Environmental Health Department, and various researchers whose testing and report was also peer reviewed and published in the esteemed British Medical Journal......prove that secondhand smoke is 2.6 - 25,000 times SAFER than occupational (OSHA) workplace regulations

    lollol

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    in reply to the above post,it is now a pleasure to go out for a drink or something to eat without coming back smelling like an ashtray.it encourages me to go out.to think that you were once allowed to smoke in the theatre,cinema,underground train and even on an aircraft.one day the pub will join that list.
    btw,i take my family to the pub for meal,not a drink as you imply.its far better than a man sitting on his own at the bar while his family sit at home

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert View Post
    To be fair Dave you are describing a restaraunt rather than a Pub in the traditional sense of the word! Semantics I know!
    lol

    Ploughman,see above.

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    I am glad there is no more smoking in Pubs, prior to the smoking ban when the mrs was subject to second hand smoke, ( Remember please smokers, we are not talking about one persons smoke drifting across during A CIG, she was subject to 6 hours of a dozen peoples smoke with no let up ) she used to wake up each morning coughing like a chain smoker, within a fortnight of the ban coming into force that stopped. However as this thread is about Pubs and not the smoking ban ( Perhaps I will start a new thread ) I have to say that despite what a handful of people say regarding going to the pub now there is no smoking it is a fact none the less that fewer new people are going to the pub than smokers who have stopped going. It is therefore correct in the context of this thread to say that the smoking ban HAS contributed, not been the cause, but contributed, to the closure of a large number of Pubs.
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    Default The Smoking Ban

    Carrying on from another thread, what do people think regarding the banning of smoking in Public Places.

    I for one agree with it, however I do think big brother has gone to far, for instance, smoking in a rugby stadium, it is open air for pete's sake, unless the secondary person is hovering around the face of the smoker surely that does not constitute a health risk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert View Post
    Carrying on from another thread, what do people think regarding the banning of smoking in Public Places.

    I for one agree with it, however I do think big brother has gone to far, for instance, smoking in a rugby stadium, it is open air for pete's sake, unless the secondary person is hovering around the face of the smoker surely that does not constitute a health risk.
    If someone is sat at the side of you though in a stadium, you still get their smoke in your face.

    I look at it like this... If I want to buy alcohol then its my choice how much I drink and whether I want to contribute towards liver disease. With smoking in pubs I never had that choice. I was breathing in smoke and smelling of it through no fault of my own. It was unfair which is why I am really pleased that the ban is in force.

    I hate smoking and feel its a dirty disgusting habit but if people want to smoke in their own home, then go ahead. At least I am not affected that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    If someone is sat at the side of you though in a stadium, you still get their smoke in your face.

    I look at it like this... If I want to buy alcohol then its my choice how much I drink and whether I want to contribute towards liver disease. With smoking in pubs I never had that choice. I was breathing in smoke and smelling of it through no fault of my own. It was unfair which is why I am really pleased that the ban is in force.

    I hate smoking and feel its a dirty disgusting habit but if people want to smoke in their own home, then go ahead. At least I am not affected that way.
    Not sure why this topic has been merged, thought we had the chance here for 2 sets of discussion???? as the smoking ban is not just a Pub issue!

    I agree to some extent, but on the other hand, perhaps the smoker sat next to you in the stadium does not drink, perhaps they do not want someone who is under the influence, no matter how lightly next to them, perhaps the smoker does not want to be disturbed during the match by trips to get to the bar early or to the bog.

    Indoors I wholeheartedly agree on the smoking ban but being banned from smoking in the open air is a matter of peoples opinions rather than health and even as a non smoker I think it is OTT
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    Totally. If a non smoker has the right to sit in a stadium without a smoker sat next to them, then the smoker who is now sat not smoking, has the right to not have someone smelling like a brewery sat next to them getting up and down every ten minutes.

    The smoking ban revealed a whole heap of new smells in pubs and clubs, previously hidden by the uniform pub smell of Benson and Hedges. I would wager that the real association with the "Red Lion" closing down isn't due to smokers not going in but more due to people not going in cos the place smells of wet dogs, blocked drains, sweaty binmen and all sorts of other unidentifiable odours which create a mental impression immediately of the place being filthy dirty.


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    Quote Originally Posted by worldwidesaint View Post
    The debate isnt about a non-smoker having a smoker sat next to them. Its about having a smoker smoking next to them. Totally different.

    I can get a drink outside the stadium before I go and take my seat/position. Likewise smokers can smoke outside before they do.

    Ban drinking and smoking in the stadium. Everybody equal. You know it makes sense.
    Oh, well put. I have been trying to think of a suitable response for ages but that's it in a nutshell.
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    Got A Season Ticket Diva Saint's Avatar
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    I've recently given up smoking, and have noticed just how badly it smells, and for instance I entered a person's house in the course of my job, where they smoke, was only in there for a matter of moments, yet I could small tobacco on my clothes I can appreciate what Shell went through, I only worked in any pub after the ban was brought in, yet I know what they pubs smalled like the morning after... ick. I don't find other smokers a problem though, moreso the drunken idiots who leer and group together outsde pubs WHILE they are smoking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    If someone is sat at the side of you though in a stadium, you still get their smoke in your face.

    I look at it like this... If I want to buy alcohol then its my choice how much I drink and whether I want to contribute towards liver disease. With smoking in pubs I never had that choice. I was breathing in smoke and smelling of it through no fault of my own. It was unfair which is why I am really pleased that the ban is in force.

    I hate smoking and feel its a dirty disgusting habit but if people want to smoke in their own home, then go ahead. At least I am not affected that way.
    Have to agree 100% there. It's disgusting when you're stood behind someone who's smoking, and not only are you getting it but the 10 others around are too.
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    Being a non smoker now is quite an antisocial thing to be. Everyone in your dissapears outside for ten minutes every hour or so to have a ciggarette.

    I'm surprised how well the country has reacted to the smoking ban. I half expected very few people to take notice of it but the transition was smooth and it almost feels like its been around forever.
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    Default The Royal

    The Royal was shut last night with a notice in the window from Punch Taverns stating they'd secured it. I always thought the Royal was doing ok a good traditional pub in the heart of the town centre .Anyone heard whats going on with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Lager View Post
    The Royal was shut last night with a notice in the window from Punch Taverns stating they'd secured it. I always thought the Royal was doing ok a good traditional pub in the heart of the town centre .Anyone heard whats going on with it?
    You have said what went wrong with it in your post "Punch Taverns" the Pub Co! Although I thought it was an Enterprise Inn.
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  24. #49
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    Hate the smoking ban.

    I liked pubs to be, well pubs. Smoky environment where folk went to have a nice pint. You knew what you were getting going in, in the first place. Weve swapped the pub with the idea that every chain bar you enter, in any town in the UK is identical to another, whilst also serving garbage ale. Yes, your clothes smell nicer but the atmosphere in any bar is now pretty much gone, hence I'd rather stay at home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirlingshire Saint View Post
    Hate the smoking ban.

    I liked pubs to be, well pubs. Smoky environment where folk went to have a nice pint. You knew what you were getting going in, in the first place. Weve swapped the pub with the idea that every chain bar you enter, in any town in the UK is identical to another, whilst also serving garbage ale. Yes, your clothes smell nicer but the atmosphere in any bar is now pretty much gone, hence I'd rather stay at home.
    The atmosphere has gone because of the smoking ban!!!!?

    I have heard some bollocks in my time but this is up there with the greatest. lol
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