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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warks Kev View Post
    Eagles fan.

    Another nearly season beckons.
    Wary of the effect bringing Michael Vick into the fold will have.

    The loss of Jim Johnson will be a big hurdle to overcome. If the defense can carry on his work we could go close.

    Some interesting formations including Vick last night - with Vick in Shotgun and McNabb in the slot as a wideout! Vick looked pretty sharp too

    Could be a good year on offense if these formations come good!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Always amuses me to see people call teams "we" when they havent been within 5000 miles of the place lol
    F**K you buddy.

    I went to Washington on holiday once.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Always amuses me to see people call teams "we" when they havent been within 5000 miles of the place lol
    And you're on this thread for what reason?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Always amuses me to see people call teams "we" when they havent been within 5000 miles of the place lol
    I'll say we about Tampa Bay Rays (baseball) since I went to watch them.

    Oddly, with us all being United fans, when mini Malc and his merry band of inbred gnomes bought United into debt, I ceremonially burned my 2 brothers and sisters Tampa Bay Buccaneers shirts vowing they should never be allowed to wear them again.

    I still thank Allah I followed the wise words of Homer Simpson when picking who I would play as on Madden and thus following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    And you're on this thread for what reason?

    I actually love the NFL, I could watch an American football game every bit as much as rugby or football. That aside I cant pretend that Im well into a side when I dont have any connection with that side. Its like being a cockney manc or one of these so called life long Liverpool fans from Thailand. It really is pretentious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Botev Plovdiv Ski View Post

    Oddly, with us all being United fans, when mini Malc and his merry band of inbred gnomes bought United into debt, I ceremonially burned my 2 brothers and sisters Tampa Bay Buccaneers shirts vowing they should never be allowed to wear them .
    Did you replace them with all golds shirts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Did you replace them with all golds shirts?
    No, Saints.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    I actually love the NFL, I could watch an American football game every bit as much as rugby or football. That aside I cant pretend that Im well into a side when I dont have any connection with that side. Its like being a cockney manc or one of these so called life long Liverpool fans from Thailand. It really is pretentious.

    The reason you can't pretend you are into a side other than your local one is because you are not. End of. Now, are you saying that kids from one place can only support local teams? Probably not. Are you saying that support of your local team is more pure/valid/better than this long distance support, it certainly seems so. In my opinion there is a word that would describe someone who take time out of their day to spout such nonsense. And that word would be pretentious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    The reason you can't pretend you are into a side other than your local one is because you are not. End of. Now, are you saying that kids from one place can only support local teams? Probably not. Are you saying that support of your local team is more pure/valid/better than this long distance support, it certainly seems so. In my opinion there is a word that would describe someone who take time out of their day to spout such nonsense. And that word would be pretentious.
    none of us would be jumping up and down getting excited when Fiorentina score a goal in the Italian league....it doent mean anything. Thats not spouting nonsense its the ••••ing truth. How can you be truely into a side that has no connection with you? If you've been there and watched a match I could undertand it, if you used to live there and then moved, I can understand it, if you have some form of other connection I could understand it however to pick a jonny random team from the other side of the world and pretend to be a big fan of them is erm...pretentious. (by definition) If you dont like that then tough $hit really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    The reason you can't pretend you are into a side other than your local one is because you are not..
    not at all.

    I like watching a few sides in the NFL but pick the better sides because they are better to watch so Im more likely to see a good game. Sometimes I may watch a side to watch a great quarterback, so I used to like watching Marino and these days the like of Manning or Brady. However I aint gonna run round my room high fiving my family when the team i am watching scores under some false pretence that they mean something to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    none of us would be jumping up and down getting excited when Fiorentina score a goal in the Italian league....it doent mean anything. Thats not spouting nonsense its the ••••ing truth. How can you be truely into a side that has no connection with you? If you've been there and watched a match I could undertand it, if you used to live there and then moved, I can understand it, if you have some form of other connection I could understand it however to pick a jonny random team from the other side of the world and pretend to be a big fan of them is erm...pretentious. (by definition) If you dont like that then tough $hit really.
    Sport is entirely like religion in this sense. People will pick one, and usually stick to it. Be that inherited from family or friends or through your own free will.

    With such wall to wall coverage of NFL these days, it is much easier to follow a side's progress (because that is more what us UK fans do) like 90% of the fans of football clubs in the country.

  12. #37
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    You seem to be labouring under the impression that because you feel or think something, then it is universally true. In addition to this you also appear to think that sporting allegiences and passions - which are often inherently irrationional - are subject to some sort of objective credibility test. I'm sorry to tell you that this is not so. To cling to a notion otherwise is at best misinformed - to get on a soap box about it is, I'm sorry to say, a teensy weensy bit pretentious.

    Apparently you have run some sort of pilot study involving the control groups, "fiorentina" and "none of us." Well done. I can' wait to read the whole paper, sounds like it is pretty conclusive. There must be detailed maps of where you can live and which teams you can follow. I do have a couple of quick questions. Are you only allowed to watch racing from Haydock, if you are from St Helens or can you go as far as Aintree? My mum loves the Oxford v Cambridge boat race and has for many years. She derives enormous pleasure from watching it. You probably live nearer to her than me, would you mind popping round there to inform her that, on account of the fact that she left school at 15, she is no longer allowed to get excited about this?

    Sport is a big part of some folk's life, but with apologies to Bill Shankly it is not the only passion. Are there also rules for which bands you are allowed to follow depending on where you were born? (Thank God I can still like the Beatles if that is true.) Now obviously I'm being silly regarding the choice of music, but no more silly than you are by clinging to some sort of tribal inderpinning alone as the 'best' or most "meaningful" of reasons that people are drawn to watching sport and one by it's abscence that nullifys the validity of that support in some way.

    Essentially, Canute like, you are denying what is obviously there. If I live in Thailand and spend my hard earned money buying a Liverpool shirt and once a week I ride two hours on the bus to meet up with like minded souls and then have my day made better or worse by what happens on the pitch at Anfield who the F*** you to tell me how "real" that experience is? The fact that you lack the imagination to see this means that this argument will never be resolved. Sadly for rugby league, this attitude is not without it's adherents and in my opinion it compounds the already serious disadvantages the sport has in broadening it's appeal

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    You seem to be labouring under the impression that because you feel or think something, then it is universally true.
    Not true. I am expressing my opinion that people who allegedly follow teams from the other side of the world exaggerate their alligance / involvement with that team. It is an opinion, you have a right to challenge it every bit as I have a right to voice it. Some people struggle with this concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    In addition to this you also appear to think that sporting allegiences and passions - which are often inherently irrationional - are subject to some sort of objective credibility test. I'm sorry to tell you that this is not so.
    Well in my opinion, they are. If you have a guy who has been to every game, bought the T-Shirt so to say, attends events associated with the club and contributes to a club they surely must have a greater alligance to that side than someone sat 5000 miles away who has watched some games on telly.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    Apparently you have run some sort of pilot study involving the control groups, "fiorentina" and "none of us." Well done. I can' wait to read the whole paper, sounds like it is pretty conclusive. There must be detailed maps of where you can live and which teams you can follow.
    Wow, you have a grasp of basic studys. Well done. Without such data even you can accept my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    I do have a couple of quick questions. Are you only allowed to watch racing from Haydock, if you are from St Helens or can you go as far as Aintree?
    A moronic analogy at best. Im not even going to credit that with any further response.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    My mum loves the Oxford v Cambridge boat race and has for many years. She derives enormous pleasure from watching it. You probably live nearer to her than me, would you mind popping round there to inform her that, on account of the fact that she left school at 15, she is no longer allowed to get excited about this?
    Nobody stated that you cant get excited watching a sporting event. I am talking about "pretending" or exaggerating how much you want a particular team to win despite having no connection with that team.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    Essentially, Canute like, you are denying what is obviously there. If I live in Thailand and spend my hard earned money buying a Liverpool shirt
    You wouldnt. You'd be too busy buying 8 year old boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    and once a week I ride two hours on the bus to meet up with like minded souls and then have my day made better or worse by what happens on the pitch at Anfield who the F*** you to tell me how "real" that experience is?
    whether you like it or not, It is my opinion and I will express it if I want to.

  14. #39
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    You could make the argument that following a team you live a long way from requires a hell of a lot more loyalty and effort than following the team down the road.
    I'm born and bred in St Helens but I don't ever really remember choosing to be a Saints fan, it just went that way from family, neighbours, mates etc and I started going to games and it happened. My great passion and love for Saints would be non-existent if my parents had decided to move to say Leeds before I was born. So, this team that means lots to me only means lots because of where I was born, not through any choice.
    Regardless of where I live I CHOSE to start following American Football and chose the Packers as my team, for various footballing and political reasons. Whether I'd been brought up in St Helens, Leeds, London or wherever that would have still happened, so why is there less validity in me being a Packers fan than a Saints fan?
    Of course you get the bandwagoners in South Korea who follow United and Liverpool for no other reason than they're good and they've been sold this Premier League lifestyle and hype machine. But its stupid to term all 'long distance' fans as the same.

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    [QUOTE=Gray77;236154]You could make the argument that following a team you live a long way from requires a hell of a lot more loyalty and effort than following the team down the road. [QUOTE=Gray77;236154]

    Depends really....if you go the match then yes. If you jut turn on the NFL double header show every unday nioght then its hardly effort is it??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I'm born and bred in St Helens but I don't ever really remember choosing to be a Saints fan, it just went that way from family, neighbours, mates etc and I started going to games and it happened. My great passion and love for Saints would be non-existent if my parents had decided to move to say Leeds before I was born. So, this team that means lots to me only means lots because of where I was born, not through any choice..
    But that is pretty much my argument. You do support Saints because you do have those ties. Whether that be family, location, friends or anything you still have that. How many ties do you have to Green Bay


    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Regardless of where I live I CHOSE to start following American Football and chose the Packers as my team, for various footballing and political reasons. Whether I'd been brought up in St Helens, Leeds, London or wherever that would have still happened, so why is there less validity in me being a Packers fan than a Saints fan?
    .
    But you surely have less validity as a Green Bay fan than some geezer from there who goes the match just like you have more validity as a Saints fan than someone over there who look out for Saints results?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    But you surely have less validity as a Green Bay fan than some geezer from there who goes the match just like you have more validity as a Saints fan than someone over there who look out for Saints results?
    If all I did was switch on the box at 6pm on a Sunday then fair enough. But, given that I spend a lot of time reading the Green Bay newspapers, ESPN, Fox Sports, etc, etc nearly every day means I go to alot of trouble to keep up to date with a team I've followed for over twenty years. The guy down the road has news in his face all the time and doesn't need to go to any effort to find things out.
    If a person in Wisconsin was on here everyday, checking the British newspapers for RL news, downloading our games off the net and all that then I'd have a hell of a lot of respect for that person and would repect that that person decided to follow a team and a sport that most of his/her mates didn't like in the slightest.
    It's easy when everyone you know follows a club, you get lots of chances to chat about the club and game, you get a mini-social scene that surrounds the club and you don't have to try that hard to keep informed. I'm not sure in reality how much loyalty and discipline it requires to follow a team that you were born with and are surrounded by all the time through mates and family.

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    I agree Gray.

    The Greatest, for you to suggest that i shouldn't call Green Bay "my team" because i don't live within 5000 miles is ridiculous. I'm a massive Green Bay fan, probably as much as i'm a Saints fan.

    I check online daily on all the sites that provide information, i have the jerseys, i stay up until 5am to watch, hell i've even seen them play live. Of course i can't call them "my team" because i don't live in your designated catchment area for them though.
    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    That's Conroy for you. 95% of the time he is one of the most knowledgeable posters we have.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Dan View Post
    I agree Gray.

    The Greatest, for you to suggest that i shouldn't call Green Bay "my team" because i don't live within 5000 miles is ridiculous. I'm a massive Green Bay fan, probably as much as i'm a Saints fan.

    I check online daily on all the sites that provide information, i have the jerseys, i stay up until 5am to watch, hell i've even seen them play live. Of course i can't call them "my team" because i don't live in your designated catchment area for them though.
    I think if you took the time to read several of my posts in this thread you would realise that Id agree that someone like you is a fan because of the things you mention like having been to see them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    I think if you took the time to read several of my posts in this thread you would realise that Id agree that someone like you is a fan because of the things you mention like having been to see them.
    I have taken the time and they all say basically the same crap.

    I think you've evidently made a mistake with your opening post and are now backtracking like hell.

    However i thank you for acknowledging me as a fan, i'll sleep better tonight.
    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    That's Conroy for you. 95% of the time he is one of the most knowledgeable posters we have.


  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Dan View Post
    I have taken the time and they all say basically the same crap.

    I think you've evidently made a mistake with your opening post and are now backtracking like hell.

    However i thank you for acknowledging me as a fan, i'll sleep better tonight.
    well evidently you didnt read them well enough. Here is a hint at what I actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    none of us would be jumping up and down getting excited when Fiorentina score a goal in the Italian league....it doent mean anything. Thats not spouting nonsense its the ••••ing truth. How can you be truely into a side that has no connection with you? If you've been there and watched a match I could undertand it, if you used to live there and then moved, I can understand it, if you have some form of other connection I could understand it however to pick a jonny random team from the other side of the world and pretend to be a big fan of them is erm...pretentious. (by definition) If you dont like that then tough $hit really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Dan View Post

    I think you've evidently made a mistake with your opening post and are now backtracking like hell.

    .
    oh dear, you really arent good at this reading malarky. My OP was

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Always amuses me to see people call teams "we" when they havent been within 5000 miles of the place lol
    clearly I am not refering to people like you because you have been to the place and watched the game. There is no backtracking on my part, the point still stands.....there are plenty of pretenders.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    oh dear, you really arent good at this reading malarky.
    I'm very good at it actually thanks.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    clearly I am not refering to people like you because you have been to the place and watched the game. There is no backtracking on my part, the point still stands.....there are plenty of pretenders.
    You are. I have no connection to Green Bay at all. None. You've said i can't say "we" or be a real fan because i have no connection. I haven't even been to Green Bay, I saw them play an away game. So based on the fact that i have seen a game i am a fan, yet Gray (if he hasn't been to a game) also is a Green Bay fan but according to you can't be because he has no connection to Green Bay?

    What gives you the ability to judge that i am a fan and Gray isn't or vice versa?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    Not true. I am expressing my opinion that people who allegedly follow teams from the other side of the world exaggerate their alligance / involvement with that team.
    Based on what?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest View Post
    But you surely have less validity as a Green Bay fan than some geezer from there who goes the match just like you have more validity as a Saints fan than someone over there who look out for Saints results?
    So i'm a fan but i am a less valid fan? Do i get a special card with my fan credentials on?
    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    That's Conroy for you. 95% of the time he is one of the most knowledgeable posters we have.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Dan View Post
    I'm very good at it actually thanks.





    You are. I have no connection to Green Bay at all. None. You've said i can't say "we" or be a real fan because i have no connection. I haven't even been to Green Bay, I saw them play an away game. So based on the fact that i have seen a game i am a fan, yet Gray (if he hasn't been to a game) also is a Green Bay fan but according to you can't be because he has no connection to Green Bay?

    What gives you the ability to judge that i am a fan and Gray isn't or vice versa?



    Based on what?



    So i'm a fan but i am a less valid fan? Do i get a special card with my fan credentials on?
    Exactly what I was goin to say, well put Dan.

    Now lets get back to the NFL - forget clowns telling us who we can or cant support!

    SKOL VIKINGS

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    Oh gawd. You are tiring me out. There is no need for you whinge about claiming your right to an opinion of your own. We get it. Rest assured that nobody thought you were quoting Sir Issac Einstien.

    You continue to exhibit the belief that you are in possession of objective criteria that define the validity of the experiences of individuals unknown to you. You have failed to address by what right this priviledge or ability has befallen you and although you have supplied differences in the form of experience, do not make a coherent link between those experiences and the attendent value of those experiences to the individuals involved. This did not diminish your initial enthusiasm in categorizing all the said behaviours as "pretentious." The attendant irony involved in this was what caused me to reply. Nothing you have said subsequently (although others have pointed to your harrumphing as a method of distancing yourself from your initial statement) has changed the fact that you are a self appointed arbiter of something of which you are unable or unwilling to mount a reasonable explanation.

    You maybe surprised to learn how deep attachments can be to certain groupings. It is most certainly not "pretending." A long time ago I was taught by an accolyte of this man (See below) it is a good place to start if you are unsure of the pillars on which my viewpoint is based.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Tajfel

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    Oh gawd. You are tiring me out.
    well why keep replying then. If you didnt want to take this debate further you would simply not have replied with this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    You continue to exhibit the belief that you are in possession of objective criteria that define the validity of the experiences of individuals unknown to you.
    Nope. I exhibit the belief that I am able to formulate an opinion based on criteria that I have come up with and based on the information I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    You have failed to address by what right this priviledge or ability has befallen you
    I think thats called having a mind and being able to think and other groovy things that humans can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    and although you have supplied differences in the form of experience, do not make a coherent link between those experiences and the attendent value of those experiences to the individuals involved.
    Since you have a basic knowledge of conducting a study go and look up the difference between qualitative and quantitative. Many things are subjective, they dont necessarily have an absolute value or number.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    This did not diminish your initial enthusiasm in categorizing all the said behaviours as "pretentious."
    Yup but I know Ive got it right with the lions share. Granted I will have branded one individual or so who has actually been to a game or spends a lot of their time following that team in some way shape or form. Collateral damage I think they call it.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    Nothing you have said subsequently (although others have pointed to your harrumphing as a method of distancing yourself from your initial statement) has changed the fact that you are a self appointed arbiter of something
    Shocking isnt it. I appoint myself to formulate my own opinions lollol

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cincinnati Kid View Post
    of which you are unable or unwilling to mount a reasonable explanation.
    I have provided an explanaition, its just that you dont agree with it because I cant put some statistical number or value to it (which you are strangely obsessed with!!) . Hey ho, thats life.

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