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Thread: Guardian at it again

  1. #26
    In The South Stand wabo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnythesaint View Post
    What is "working class"?
    was wondering that myself, I work so I must be working class

  2. #27
    Learning All The Songs
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    Rugby league is,95%,a geographically northern game.Therefore when "scribes" mention Rugby union,Rugby league and the north they cannot help themselves to also mention "class"as if to please its southern readers,most of which would be surprised to see how great the north of England is,if they ever bothered to come and look.

  3. #28
    In The South Stand peter soutos tash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Apologies to all the Andy Wilson fans out there.Please note the smiley face after my comment about working class.

    Saints posted losses last year ,as far as I can see,due to the sponsors situation.This year should be different with the new longer sponsorship contracts and the increased Sky income.
    dont apologise for that pillock
    he writes more crap than gary schofield
    stop reading this drivel and you'll have nothing to moan about

  4. #29
    Starting A Programme Collection HoofeHearted's Avatar
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    According to this St Helens Start article, http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/3...oss_St_Helens/, as well as Woolies and Pimmies closing/already closed,
    And the Star also understands that James Edwards Land Rover on Prescot Road, a franchise operation of Inchcape, will close on January 9, resulting in more job losses..
    Don't they provide some sponsorship to the Saints?
    Phil Vievers...Balls...Joan Collins...Try...Orgasmic... RH the living legend.


  5. #30
    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
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    Caviare and a pint of flat rib please!!! Now thats class

  6. #31
    Got A Season Ticket AnonymousSaint's Avatar
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    Could football really be affected by the credit crunch?

    Personally I believe not, considering some clubs do charge £500-£1000 per season ticket times that by 20 - 30,000, quite a sum of money. If a premier league club got into financial difficulty I can't really seeing many players taking a pay cut.

    By gum football annoys me, anyone notice ? lol
    Not born, not bred, but St Helens RLFC through and through!

  7. #32
    Banned The Chair Maker's Avatar
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    Now today the Guardian is imo bitter about RL, as they are whining about RL getting approx £30 million from sport England.

    Saying its a "geographically restricted sport" and the National Summer game Cricket... has had funding cut by 30%"

    Now granted the sport is restricted geographically at the professional level but sport England funding is aimed at the grass roots development, and here RL is a truly national sport. With huge growth in participation rates across the country. Hence i suspect the large increase in funding.

    This to me shows the ignorance and possibly prejudice within the paper.

  8. #33
    RedVee Admin's Avatar
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    You think?

    It's complete bollox from the Guardian: sports which are geographically restricted are mountain climbing and white water rafting.


  9. #34
    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousSaint View Post
    Could football really be affected by the credit crunch?

    Personally I believe not, considering some clubs do charge £500-£1000 per season ticket times that by 20 - 30,000, quite a sum of money. If a premier league club got into financial difficulty I can't really seeing many players taking a pay cut.

    By gum football annoys me, anyone notice ? lol
    There are plenty of teams outside the premiership and YES without a doubt football will be affected big time and its been on the cards for years. I note the Football league have agreed to introduce academy quotas today too- a sign that it cannot afford to cotinually to sign rafts of foreign players.

  10. #35
    Got A Season Ticket Voll au Vent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManchesterSaint View Post
    I think what he is saying is contextually correct, but the use of the phrase "working class" evokes a lot of emotion. Unfortunately, this is typical of left wing press, it must reduce everything to a crude form of class warfare and the politics of envy. He could have been a little more balanced in his language and less provocative in his phrasiology. It doesn't bother some people, but it does others. Personally speaking, I am undecided as to whether I am offended by it as I am a Conservative who believes in meritocracy. I don't accept that the majority of fans in RL would consider themselves "working class", if indeed people still accept they belong to a sociological class at all. If they do, then it may be the majority of Saints, Wigan and possibly Warrington fans consider themselves "working class", but there will be an awful lot, if not a majority of Leeds, Bradford possibly Huddersfield fans who don't consider themselves "working class" and I would venture to suggest that you will not find a single Harlequins fan who considers themselves working class. The problem is where we live. If you put up a trained Chimp with a red rosette on its chest on the ballot paper at election time, it would get elected with a huge majority. Everything around the local area in particular is considered "Margaret Thathchers fault" and so a lot of people will not be bothered by his turn of phrase. It is interesting that there are those that those who are bothered by it. I think the original post was just highlighting what some people find deeply offensive and highly stereotypical.
    Well good for you cockle. I hope you are well up the meritocracy.
    The only definition of 'working class' I recognise is an economic one. Everyone in this country is working class unless they are; members of the royal family and its parasitic aristocracy, owners of the means of production or self-employed small business people.
    By that definition, I'd say 85% plus of saints fans are 'working class' including myself.

    Oh, and Andy Wilson is an ar$e.

  11. #36
    Noooobie
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    another saints sponser bites the dust rumour has james edwards landrover is closing down in february just after the season starts

  12. #37
    In The South Stand Legolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voll au Vent View Post
    Well good for you cockle. I hope you are well up the meritocracy.
    The only definition of 'working class' I recognise is an economic one. Everyone in this country is working class unless they are; members of the royal family and its parasitic aristocracy, owners of the means of production or self-employed small business people.
    By that definition, I'd say 85% plus of saints fans are 'working class' including myself.

    Oh, and Andy Wilson is an ar$e.
    Look Cockle, I didn't turn this into a class war, and nor did I say people are right or wrong for believing they belong to a class, or right or wrong for disagreeing with me. I merely made my own observations and put my own opinion about the inane ramblings of a so called journalist who can't help himself but draw on his own stereotypes. So don't attack me or make sarcastic comments based on your own views just because we happen to disagree. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

    Your definition of "working class", whether you accept the premise of social class or not is one that only you hold. You simply cannot argue that anybody who works is "working class". The whole basis of socioeconomic class is based upon a wider criteria of factors than just a persons employment status. I am not going to enter into an argument about the Royal Family save to say that without them this Country would be a damn site poorer and if push came to pull, I'm with the Royal Family over Politicians every day of the week, twice on sundays and thrice on bank holidays.

    The reason I don't believe in class is that it leads to people being labelled and stuck in a particular pidgeon hole. I actually believe everyone is capable of reaching the very top if they have the potential. This Country's history is steeped in meritocratic ideology. Only left wing socialists and "Old Labour" diehards believe in the social class structure and must reduce everything to a class war through the politics of envy.

  13. #38
    Learning All The Songs bobble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManchesterSaint View Post
    I actually believe everyone is capable of reaching the very top if they have the potential.
    You do know you've just contradicted yourself by putting the royal family at the top, with which no merit in the whole world can get you in, except the merit/potential of being born into it.

    Nothing to do with RL and Saints I know but I thought you'd be pleased we all noticed your contradictory ramblings.

  14. #39
    In The South Stand Legolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobble View Post
    You do know you've just contradicted yourself by putting the royal family at the top, with which no merit in the whole world can get you in, except the merit/potential of being born into it.

    Nothing to do with RL and Saints I know but I thought you'd be pleased we all noticed your contradictory ramblings.
    Being a Royalist and a Meritocratist is not incompatible or contradictory. I can't get to the top of your family, nor can you get to the top of mine, and neither of us can get to the top of Gordon Clown's. Therefore it is not contradictory ramblings. We live in a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary Democracy, therefore, if either of us wish, we could pursue a career and replace Gordon Clown if either of us have the potential and become PM thereby getting to the very top of our (hypothetical) chosen path.

    One of the greatest Royalists and Meritocracists in British History was Admiral Lord Viscount Nelson. Perhaps he is guilty of "contradictory ramblings" aswell despite what some of the worlds most reknowned historians acknowledge??

  15. #40
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    I've discovered the hard way myself that use of words like working and middle class is highly provocative in post-industrial St Helens. Better to stick to socio-economic alpha-numerical classifications. Class warriors are not incensed by these

  16. #41
    Learning All The Songs bobble's Avatar
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    I think you'll find, if you read the thread properly, that most people were quite happy with the term. The ones who werent tended to be the more 'conservative' rather than the 'class warriors' you deride. So bang goes your theory.

    In truth, it doesn't matter what terminology you use, the vast majority of RL speccies do come from a certain socio economic group. All research shows this. And the most commoly recognised, emotive or not, term for that group is working class. The categories used by the SKY advertisment sales department might have different names and letters but it amounts to the same thing.

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