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Thread: Failures!

  1. #76
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    i wasnt really confident going in too game,thought after us beating leeds 3 times during the season especially the cup semi they were due a win over us.thats sport for you,evens itself out over the course of a season.
    saying that thought we lacked a cutting edge last nite,we dont really have a player in the backline like smith or mcguire.hope eastmond comes into the team next season more,think he can give us that spark we lacked last nite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpw2081
    spot on, nice post
    I totally agree, Imo i enjoyed the 80s and early 90s much more than recent years. Going to the game was fun not knowing the outcome etc, these days it's to serious and our fans can expect a little to much every season.

    A few years of struggling to win any trophies may allow people to appreciate what the club have actually achieved since those dark days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maurice flasher
    I totally agree, Imo i enjoyed the 80s and early 90s much more than recent years. Going to the game was fun not knowing the outcome etc, these days it's to serious and our fans can expect a little to much every season.

    A few years of struggling to win any trophies may allow people to appreciate what the club have actually achieved since those dark days.
    Agreed. Its easy to become spoilt and expect at least one trophy every year. I am just waiting for the "I am not renewing my season ticket" lines yet

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    Has anyone stopped to consider that the reason many of the Saints players weren't at their best last night was that Leeds didn't let them play? I think the charge of "chickens" and "bottlers" is an absolute disgrace.

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    Dare I suggest that a lot of the Leeds players and fans would happily have swapped one of their Super League titles for a challenge cup win at Wembley.
    Its only in the last few years that the Old Trafford final has been considered
    more important than the Wembley one.All the overseas players want to play at Wembley and it still attracts the bigger attendance.The only Leeds player to have experienced a Wembley win is Senior and that was for Sheffield.
    In fact I don,t think any of their other players have even played there.
    I don,t think we should be too despondent Leeds really wanted a Wembley appearance this year.We know now how they must have felt after the semi at Huddersfield.

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    perhaps the starter of this thread(dd)should look at his football team (man city)when talking about failures,chickens and bottlers.couldn't hold a 2 0 lead at home yet calls saints for losing a grand final.i really hope you started this thread to create debate,because i really don't think you meant it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murgatroyd
    Its only in the last few years that the Old Trafford final has been considered
    more important than the Wembley one..
    yup. 2006 to be precise.

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    Default Team of 2006

    The team of 2006 would not be considered failures. They won the legendary treble, or four trophies if you include the hub. They were voted BBC team of the year and DA was voted Coach of the year.

    And yet for most of that season the rugby was not exciting to watch. For a long time they just did not seem to kick start in matches, and then towards the end they kicked into gear peaking at the right time to win the Grand Final.

    By contrast this years team have played far more expansive and exciting rugby. I have lost count of exciting finishes to games that we have had at Knowsley Road and on away pitches too. The trouble is that we have short memories, only see what is in front of us and expect Saints win everything. I have loved this season more than just about any I can remember.

    Sure I expected Saints to win yesterday and am hugely disappointed, but I do not see the team as 'failures'. I think as a Saints fan you must get best value per money of just about any team I can think of in any sport. I will remember this season for a long time. The disappointment at the end, but also the great excitement and entertainment along the way. Come on you Saints!!
    Last edited by wirral saint2; 5th October 2008 at 19:10.

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    Bottlers? Well my Saints bottle is still full of champagne which has been maturing nicely over the last few years. Unlike the goons and the wires which is full of p**s. lol

    Lets face it, although it hurts to lose, in the long run it will do the team and the fans no harm. We have been spoiled by success. We need to put that behind us now it's past. Let's look to the future, a new coach, new player(s) and a nice new stadium.

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    Lets get back to the time of the late 1980s and early 90s when we won F*** all. Getting to CC finals and getting our ar$es wiped by a full time wigan side. I would much rather have the team and record we have now, thats for sure. We have won too much to be considered failures or bottlers.

    What we need is a Plan B if Plan A doesnt work. We have one style of play and if it rains or if the opposition are allowed to hold us down, we struggle, simple as that. The grand final weather has been just that in the last two years and we have copped for it. The weather is the same for both sides, but Leeds had 4 forwards on the bench. They prepared and played the game the right way in that weather, they were smarter than us and our game plan came unstuck. Leeds have worked out how to beat us and we now need to change things up so we dont allow that to happen again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chair Maker
    Failure is a club that had the most successfull run of winning trophys in the history of its sport, but was forced to sell its ground to prevent itself from going bankrupt.

    Failure is a club that has the biggest junior catchment area, but fails to retain and develop that talent.

    Failure is a club that for years has had the richest owner in the game but hasnt won a championship in a decade.

    Failure is a club found guilty of blatently cheating the salary cap.

    Failure is a club called WIGAN.
    Spot On!

    Gutted that we lost? YES. Pi** wet through by the time I got back to the car...Yes.... But not disappointed in the team. I stayed till the end and clapped everyone of our lads off.

    Some of the comments of so called fans have been an absolute disgrace.

    Not one of the team looked pleased to have lost. Leeds were just better and had the run of some of the 50/50 plays.

    Well done Saints and keep up the hard work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBrother
    Spot On!

    Gutted that we lost? YES. Pi** wet through by the time I got back to the car...Yes.... But not disappointed in the team. I stayed till the end and clapped everyone of our lads off.

    Some of the comments of so called fans have been an absolute disgrace.

    Not one of the team looked pleased to have lost. Leeds were just better and had the run of some of the 50/50 plays.

    Well done Saints and keep up the hard work.

    Well said ! I totally agree COME ON YOU SAINTS!!
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    To go back to the start of the thread, no I dont think we are failures. I think the team, in DAs time at least, peaked in 2006. That squad is the best Ive seen at Saints. That squad will stand comparison in time with any great side from the games history. I dont think you can say its better or worse than others of the past, be they from Saints, Wigan, Leeds or Huddersfield, as I dont think you can compare different eras. Since 2006 we have still been a top team, and again I think history will show us as a great team through the sheer amount of cups won. Dont tell me the CC isnt important as it only becomes a mickey mouse cup when your team gets knocked out. Also, in years to come Saints will be seen as THE team of the early SL years, irrespective of there being a few blips in there. Bradford will be looked on as a top team from this era, even though they lost GFs they should have won.

    All this wailing and gnawing of knuckles on here does my head in. Last night was a sad end to a great season. Many thought we wouldnt compete this year, and certainly it looked that way after the first third of the season. But we put in a monumental effort to get what we did from the season. It is true that 1 from 4 is disappointing, but last night Leeds came with a great game plan, ideal for the night, and stuck to it. It was a great team effort, they tackled marvelously and then kicked us to death. Well done Leeds. This may be the begining of a less glorious period for the club, but Ive been through a long one of those before and still enjoyed watching the red v. On southstander, I think it was Harry Grout who, reflecting on Leeds lean years, said the "thrill is in the chase", so bring it on. Whatever next season brings we should all get down to KR to watch players like Pryce, Graham, Cayless, Roby and Gidley in the red v, and witness how our young lads progress, and all sod off with your doom and gloom, its like having a bunch of Private Frasers on here. Bring on 2009, whether its a continuation of our glory days, or the start of a few wilderness years. Jeez I havent written this much since school!

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    The Leeds fans that I was talking to after the match said that Wembley was the one they really wanted. They were more bothered about that than the GF. Said they missed a weekend away in London and it hurt them more than losing to us in the GF would have done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher
    The Leeds fans that I was talking to after the match said that Wembley was the one they really wanted. They were more bothered about that than the GF. Said they missed a weekend away in London and it hurt them more than losing to us in the GF would have done.
    really funny you should say that.i dont know if its because we lost but a few saints fans i spoke to on the wayout last night said they would not have give up getting to and winning at wembley in order to win last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD
    Finish top of the league four years on the bounce and one Championship to show for it.

    Failures? Bottlers? Take your pick, but when it comes to the crunch this 'best team ever' of ours just hasn't got what it takes.

    We are bottlers. Simple as...!

    ...What a fair-weather supporter
    “It's been 31 years, since 1974, we last won a major (trophy and) Andrew Johns and Natty (Nathan Wood), our two oldest players were born in 1974 so it's a little bit spooky,”

    There is a common trait in teams at this point in the season that they seem to sit back and wait for somebody to win the game for them. And we had too many of our players waiting for someone to win the game.”

    "interfacing at the ruck"

    "winning the go-forward"

    "i thought we won the collision"

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    Bottlers i think not, we just always have to throw the ball around no matter what the conditions and last night we seemed to be confused when it all went pear shape.

    I am very proud of what we have achieved this season, after that trip to Cas i thought we would be lucky to finish in the top 6 never mind 1st and a challenge cup as well.

    No i am truly proud of what the team has achieved this year and am already looking forward to 2009 season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ploughman
    perhaps the starter of this thread(dd)should look at his football team (man city)when talking about failures,chickens and bottlers.couldn't hold a 2 0 lead at home yet calls saints for losing a grand final.i really hope you started this thread to create debate,because i really don't think you meant it.
    You mean, you don't think that I will hurl criticism at City when it's deserved? lol

    Four times top, once champions. When the going got tough, we bottled it. Would we have won three Challenge Cup Finals if we had not been playing muppet opposition?

    All as I know is, this Saints team has been touted by many as our best ever side yet, when it really mattered, when we really had to prove it against the big boys, we have blown it.

    We have won one Championship in six years. Leeds have won three in five. Are they better than us? Have they been better than us throughout that period? I don't think they have been and therefore that means only one thing, we have bottled it when the going got tough.

    Consistently, week in, week out, this is about as good as we have ever seen it. However, when it comes to the big matches, the team at the turn of this century shit all over this one. They had the big match temperement. This one has failed us for the second consecutive year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST_CONROY
    but the fact is we were simply beaten by the team that wanted it more.
    This is supposed to make us feel better is it? How disturbing is it that our opponents wanted it more than we did? Surely a professional side should be wanting Grand Final success more than anything.

    If this is the case though, and we didn't want it like we have never wanted it before, then the buggers deserved the defeat they got.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_V_Roger
    May be 5 weeks in Oz and not wanting to get injured has something to do with it?
    Absolute bollocks - are Leeds likely to have less players than ours in the squad?

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    Well, £31 ticket (to expensive) trouble in the ground, crap performance, got beat, got wet, got car vandalised. all in all a sh*t night.

    Fair play to Leeds, they were more up for it, better suited to the conditions, better kicking game, ran harder onto the ball, tackled harder, they deserved it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jill
    i wouldnt personally call them failures, its been a hard tough season 27 games of superleague, plus challenge cup games and FINAL. All in all the players went out there yesterday and tried there best, obviously the weather didnt help for both sides, but leeds just adapted to the conditions better than we did. Some silly errors, we could put down to costing us the game. but my view is that leeds were the better team, they had better kick and chase than us, they had stronger defence than us, and they seemed more hungry for it than we did. but all in all i still could never call st helens failures. they won a challenge cup final for god sake, they won 23 games on the trot - it was going to come to an end one day.
    Alls i can say is well done to the lads, shame the cup didnt come back home, but there is always next year have a nice couple of months off, and come back with your chins lifted up again.

    P.S Some people need to learn how to deal with defeat, you win some you lose some, its the way the world of sport goes!!!
    Top post Jill

    So what, we've lost a game of footie.

    Ok it's sad that it's a Grand Final, broke a run of 23 unbeaten matches and we didn't give DA, WT, NF, MB, PS & AP the send off they were hoping for. But sport is sport. No one has a God given right to always win.

    Leeds are a great side. So are we. There isn't too much between the sides and last night, Leeds deserved to win.

    No ones a failure, no one bottled it and most importantly no one want to or went out to lose!

    No one is looking to make excuses, but I will add again that in the wet, as I posted earlier in the week, Leeds would have a better chance. The conditions were apauling, we weren't at our best and Leeds won!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wirral saint2
    The team of 2006 would not be considered failures. They won the legendary treble, or four trophies if you include the hub. They were voted BBC team of the year and DA was voted Coach of the year.

    And yet for most of that season the rugby was not exciting to watch. For a long time they just did not seem to kick start in matches, and then towards the end they kicked into gear peaking at the right time to win the Grand Final.

    By contrast this years team have played far more expansive and exciting rugby. I have lost count of exciting finishes to games that we have had at Knowsley Road and on away pitches too. The trouble is that we have short memories, only see what is in front of us and expect Saints win everything. I have loved this season more than just about any I can remember.

    Sure I expected Saints to win yesterday and am hugely disappointed, but I do not see the team as 'failures'. I think as a Saints fan you must get best value per money of just about any team I can think of in any sport. I will remember this season for a long time. The disappointment at the end, but also the great excitement and entertainment along the way. Come on you Saints!!

    This too is a great post WS2

    I really have enjoyed my footie this season as it has been competitive, expansive and exciting and whe way we carved a run of 23 unbeaten matches was amazing to watch.

    We were probably 16 or so minutes from immortality last night. If we had have won, this side would have truelly been regarded as our greatest ever and I think it's sad that a defeat like this detracts from the achievements of this great team.

    This era will be, for Saints, as good as it will ever be. Considering the salary cap and full time contacts, no team will ever dominate this sport as Wigan did in the late 80s & 90s. I just love living the dream and hope it goes on for years, even if we do have the odd hic up on the way.

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    I rarely pull rank these days, but alas I will tonight.

    I am quite saddened by some of the posts on this thread.

    There are some posters who should hang their heads in shame.

    DD your initial post is, I appreciate, your opinion, but imho is way ott. The Greatest, mmm on this post you have certainly not lived up to your name.

    I have, and am probably, one of the few who post on red vee who has, worked very closely with the Saints team.

    I am am also a Saints' diehard who has as much paasion for this great club as any of you who posts on here.

    This Saints Team is a great team. They are very professional and very focussed. They always give 100% and always go out to win. They were smarting after last season's GF loss and were very determined yesterday to prove that they are the countries premier team. They plied their trade last night in quite apauling conditions. Conditions that are always a great leveller. In the end they didn't win. They were beaten on the night by the better team.

    Some times in finals it's the little things that make a difference. Smith kicked an unintentional 40:20 when he put in a desperate kick to clear his lines. Leeds scored from the resulting scrum. Longy narrowly missed a touchline conversion that would have levelled matters and Franny dropped a towering bomb under immense pressure that led to the match clinching try. Ok Leeds were the better team, but without those little things, results can go the other way.

    These lads would have been gutted last night. They would have been truelly devastated. They would not have needed to have been told that they weren't at their best. A losing dressing room is like a morgue particularly after a big game.

    This team have had a great year. They have given their all and have played some of the most consistantly best football any Sts team have. They have been expansive and exciting and have won several matches late on. Their 23 match unbeaten run has been truelly amazing.

    I am sad today. I wanted Saints to win as much as any of you. I though am also very proud of my Sts and want to thank them for the entertainment and excitement they have given to me this year. Last night the supprters and players of 10 other SL Clubs would have liked to have swapped with us and I'm sure that even Leeds would have swapped last night's win for one of our 2New Wembley successes.

    I say to DA today, 'thank you'. The 3 and half years you have coached Sts has been sensational. Thankyou also to the departing players. We will miss you.

    This year we've seen, 4 great wins over Warrington, 3 amazing victories over Wigan including one of the sweetest nights ever in my Sts watching career when we beat them in Cardiff, the SBS, the approval for a New Stadium, Wembley, Old Trafford and a new SL franchise.

    Well done to all! To the Chairman, Chief Executive, Coach, Players, SBS and Supporters. I for one will enjoy the off season but already cannot wait until next year.

    Come on you Saints!

    LS

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    I'd just like to make the point that some people on here doubted we'd even finish top 3 this season, and were doubting we'd compete at the level we'd been so used to in the last few years. Whilst I have been lower after this defeat than for a long while, I thought I'd mention that on here. People talking about being let down by a team that they thought was on the slide before the season started.

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