I definitely think we'd have lost last year's GF under Holbrook, as good as we were under him we're much more gritty and resilient under Woolf
We don't lost too often by double digits under him anyway
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I definitely think we'd have lost last year's GF under Holbrook, as good as we were under him we're much more gritty and resilient under Woolf
We don't lost too often by double digits under him anyway
Totally agree, I.ve been raising similar points for a while now but some just ignore the reality that we no longer have any strike pivotal players, the poor form of Coote and Roby is killing us at the moment for any creative or attacking play we only have a one man show in Lomax.
All we get from some posters is huffing and puffing in that we should be more creative and entertaining and its all Woolf's fault when in reality we just don't have effective players to play free flowing rugby and Superleague this season does not encourage it. I don't even think a Holbrook return with a big magic wand could improve us so much in the short term, we need a major overhaul especially in those most important pivotal positions that promote creativity.
It's been said many times before on here, if teams stop Lomax, they stop Saints. Theo, for all his work & endeavour, is a robotic player, he plays by numbers, not off the cuff. Coote has been excellent for us but needs replacing & Roby has been worked to death by previous coaches. The evidence is clear, we never go to our three quarters to produce something early in a set because our pivots can't visualise or alternatively achieve the space to give them an opening from distance. Instead, we persist with the Theo crap kick on the 5th & the cut out pass to the winger.
Our pivots need refreshing, plain & simple.
Regardless of your thoughts on KW, does no one else find it a little odd that we are almost into July and there's no talk of who will be coach next season? As far as i'm aware didn't KW sign a two year deal with an option for a third in our favour? Not seen any speculation about this at all.
Woolf will be here next season so like it or not he’s here for another year.
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Of that I have no doubt.
On your other point, you're not the only person who has mentioned how we came back from lockdown and looked ahead of everyone else in fitness and our readiness to exploit the new rules, but I wonder why people mention it because it lasted a matter of weeks with fairly dour stuff for months before it and after it. I do not find the argument that we looked great for 3-4 weeks that convincing, because either you're saying I should judge him on a handful of games and not the 30-odd others, or you're saying that was the real Saints for those few weeks which leads me to ask where they went.
Yet apart from those two results that I mentioned, we also had the following after those…
48 points against Cats in the play off SF
40 points against Leeds again
48 against Wakefield
54 against Huddersfield
32 against HKR
So it’s hardly like we didn’t rack up decent scores. That’s 7 games in total that we scored a lot of points and that’s not taking into account the game against Wigan’s reserves.
By the way I’m not for one minute suggesting that we’ve been great in attack this season, we haven’t. I totally get that we’ve been clunky and agree that we have no creativity or plan B.
However I feel that criticising our attack last season and comparing it to this season is harsh because we actually did ok last season in terms of putting teams to the sword.
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When I find the McManus video I will post it up on here, basically we had a busted squad and quite a few players didn’t have a proper pre season.
The COVID break was a blessing in disguise because that time out gave us the pre season what Woolf wanted to get his players up to speed.
We went on a 10 week scoring spree scoring on average 32 points a game not the 3 to 4 weeks, it was in the last 3 weeks of the 10 week period that teams tried to find a way to slow and spoil our game, it was Hull KR who tried something different and some teams followed that template (Wakefield). Scoring spree was 34-6, 48-0, 10-0, 32-18, 54-6, 21-20 (Hull KR), 42-0, 20-16 (Wakefield), 48-6, 40-8. Topped off in the play off with a 48-2 demolition of the Catalans.
That didn’t matter so much though with teams started to slow us down because Woolf started to toughen us up defensively for the play offs if he hadn’t done that then we would have probably bottled the Grand Final.
This season is another chapter of boring Superleague Rugby, if we had 3 or 4 pivotable players at the top of their game we could possibly overcome it but we havn’t so we are very much in an arm wrestle most weeks.
EDIT: McManus interview with Stuart Pyke explaining the pressures Woolf was in during the first part of the season. Its Saints Premium edition so only subscribers can watch, McManus talks a lot of stuff about Woolf around 3m 20s into the interview.
https://tv.saintsrlfc.com/2020/12/07...on-the-season/
I've made the point previously, that one of the foundations of our attack is to get quick PTB's from penetrating runs, then build a momentum on the back of that which has the opposition backpeddling and struggling to keep their defensive shape.
The weeks following lockdown ending, with the introduction of rule changes to stop defences slowing the PTB, allowed this key part of our attack to flourish, and the points followed.
The Castleford game was the first where the opposition just thought 'f*ck it' and reverted to not quickly clearing the ruck, and the ref generally allowed them. Other teams began to follow, and our attack again started to struggle to get dominance.
That's spot on.
However there comes a point when Saints have to move beyond the "the other kids don't play fair , our jonny needs a quick ptb".
You either find a way to overcome it , or find some alternative tactics that don't rely solely on a quick ptb.
You can't just keep saying "they won't play nice , that' why we are clunky".
As we saw in the game against Warrington the game has moved on in the last year from it being an advantage to get to ground and back up as quickly as possible in order to get go forward and keep the defensive line on the back foot. Now it’s more advantageous to stay on your feet until the ref calls held. This means that as the ref calls held your markers aren’t set and you often have a 3rd player offside as he retreats. If you’re taken to ground it gives the markers and defence time to set, especially if the ref allows some wrestling and lying on. We haven’t adapted to this and although our forwards still often make good metres it means we are still getting slow plays of the ball against a set defensive line. It’s one of the reasons I think Roby has struggled this year, there’s barely ever a retreating defence or unset markers for him to run at.
Don't disagree, and that's a fair criticism of Woolf's coaching and tactics (and presumably Wellens')
However, as Stiddy says, where's this going to end? The onfield product is boring 99% of the time already. Seems that the RLF won't be content until that 1% has been eradicated.
Good thread this
Worrying quotes from Woolf after the match about "one more year on his contract and really enjoying it" but then goes on to say "would love to have a crack at the NRL" and his family who can't wait to get back home "will dictate what happens" the Aussie Daily Telegraph stating that he's impressed the clubs over there with his success at coaching at St Helens, I doubt whether he will stay another year after next season if a job offer comes, at least our success with Holbrook and Woolf will mean plenty of applicants for the job, looks like player replacement for LMS, Amor, Roby and co.,will also include coach succession as well, but with the grounding that both coaches have given Wellens, he will always be there to steer the club, but perhaps not quite ready for the main job after the experience with Cunningham. Dream team of Wellens and Roby as joint coaches especially as now Wellens also has GB/England experience ?
I don’t think it’s much of a secret that he’s wanted an NRL head coach job but the best way for him to do that is by being successful with us. I can’t imagine him staying beyond 2022 and if he does leave for the NRL it will have been on the back of one of the most successful 3 year periods in the clubs history, even if we win nothing next year.
Woolf always comes across as a honest and loyal character who doesn't do mind games, over the last quarter of the season he has looked more relaxed yet at the same time has increased team intensity in games. In his latest podcast he mentioned that he is not going back to Oz for a holiday and wants to take the opportunity to see the rest of the UK and Europe. He also mentioned working more with our younger players this is encouraging as he will be probably be leaving a legacy at the club.
I can't see Woolf being poached by the NRL for the 2022 season but if he gets us another CC win and heading into the play offs again, he's going to be in high demand come the second half of the season next year. I noticed our players had a song and chorus line "The Big Bad Wolf" and he looked chuffed by the players admiration for him.
Watch your back Woolfy losing one match is not good enough
Woolfys heads in Aus?
Players let him down today.