Brodie Croft
Welsby young player
Peet coach
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Brodie Croft
Welsby young player
Peet coach
Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
Absolutely deserved for Welsby - will get the main award when he’s not constantly shifting positions. Similarly pleased that Croft got it over Field - definitely think there’s more to his game overall.
Absolute joke Woolf could win an 3-peat, a challenge cup and a LLS with a patched up team all year and still not walk away with the coach of the year prize
Surprised Croft got it but couldn’t have really argued with any of the 3 getting it. Will properly wind up the Pies though so that’s a bonus.
Welsby head and shoulders above the other young players.
Peet would have been my 3rd choice behind Woolf and Rohan Smith.
I think of the three nominated Croft is the best choice.
Just been watching the stream- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7nKARI9aQ0
I would have given MoS to Field but I'm a big fan of Croft too. Coach of the year was Paul Rowley for me as I've said earlier.
Welsby deserved young player and interestingly on Welsby...they were comparing him as a young player to Sam Tomkins at the same age. Both winning the award back-to-back. Different style of players I think. Easy to forget how good Tomkins was when he burst on to the scene.
There's been a lot of stuff on here lately about how poorly the sport puts itself across in the media but I thought that ceremony was a new low. What sport that wants to be taken seriously would put it's showpiece event on YouTube, then start it an hour late? Add in the amateurish presentation, people walking across in front of the camera, Carney looking like he'd just got out bed, lame interviewing, I could go on. Just very, very poor. My daughter's school did a better job.
So, let me get this right. A coach who could win 3 super league titles and a LLS in the 3 years he’s been at the club but has not won coach of the year in any of those seasons?
This team and this coach don’t get the recognition they deserve for their achievements.
And let’s not even go there with Croft. A player who plays for a team that finishes 6th is the best player the competition? Do me a favour.
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I think this illustrates the daft points system which means a good player in a poor team will always do better than a great player in a great team.
I think Woolf is unlucky and, if he wasn't to win, I think Rowley possibly deserved it. Not sure why a player from a team finishing in 6th place shouldn't be man of steel - I don't have an issue with Croft winning it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzy rascal
Think Woolf is very unlucky to have not won a Coach of the Year award at least once. I think he should have won this year given the injuries we have faced and the relative ease we won the league leaders shield.
The Man of Steel award has been broken for years and the voting system hasn’t helped. Not one Saints winner in the last four years and even Leeds’ Golden Generation didn’t win any.
I don't doubt that Croft is a great player, he clearly is. The problem I have is that someone who stands out in a game where the bottom club plays the club that's second bottom gets the same MoS points as someone who stands out when top plays second. A big fish in a small pond will always stand out. Although it pains me to say it, Field should have won this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by singe
Saints are simply taken for granted for the high standards we have hit for years as a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzy rascal
Since James Graham in 2008 we have had one Man of Steel winner whilst Castleford have had 4. Work that one out.
Theres a good chance Woolf could leave with 3 GF wins, a CC and a LLS but never been awarded coach of the year. Laughable.
I agree about the way points are awarded, but I thought Croft was more deserving of the award than Field.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealHarryPinner
It's also easy to forget how young Jack Welsby is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson
I think so too, its similar to James Roby his high standard is often dismissed over the years, strange that over the last 5 years its usually the coach who wins the LLS wins the coac of the year but thats not happened this year. For me Jonny Lomax is Man of Steel in every sense of the, word plays with an injured arm and takes loads of heavy knocks but gets up and carries on playing the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbynator
Glad Croft has got it over Field, Croft is not a one trick pony and is a lot more skilful than Field, we must acknowledge that Field is an exciting player though and catches the eye with his breaks in open field. Its going to be very difficult for Jack Welsby to win Man of Steel there are too many quality saints players to take MOS points off him, I expect Dodd will feature a lot more next year.
I thought Rohan Smith would get found out but you have to give it to him for what he’s done at Leeds. It has to be possibly the biggest mid season turn around since Peter Sharp took over Hull mid 2006 and they went on that winning run all the way to Old Trafford.
Peet has improved Wigan and seems like a sound bloke, but he has had a strong team around him.
As Blobby said, its a bit daft that Woolf has never won coach of the year.
Completely agree on Lomax. For me he is our player of the year and would be a more than worthy winner of Man of Steel given what he has played through this year. Without him we wouldn't be in a Grand Final. His problem is he plays with other top players so our votes get shared out. He is also probably isn't as "eye catching" as Welsby but he is so valuable for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by STIDDY
I think MoS reflects the sport perfectly. A lad shines for Salford and they make the 6, that's the story, that's what the game obsesses over, the struggle of mediocre teams jumping over the artificial low bar. The lad who does the business for the side at the top is a secondary issue, who cares about that, where is the drama and the intrigue in the lad or the team in 1st when the entire sport and the media that follows it is concentrating on who finishes 5th and 6th?
Imagine some lad at Arsenal or Spurs winning Footballer of the Year because they'd led their side to 4th place, over the best players in City and Liverpool's sides who spearheaded title challenges. Wouldn't happen, the focus would be on the lads who made the difference for their sides right at the sharp edge, the trophy winning elite at the top of the game, not the ones who looked good in an average side and led them to some artificial made up level that we all celebrate as achievement.
Spot on. It's almost like a sympathy award for "lesser" teams. I mean how can MOS keep going to players whose teams don't actually perform at the top level or win anything? I think Croft is a very good player, but he hasn't enabled his team to achive too much. They gave us a hard time in the semi final without him, so they don't revolve around him. I agree with other posters that Lomax should've been in with a shout. Our only real playmaker with only one functioning arm gets us to the GF, The LLS and close to the CC. Makes you wonder what he actually has to do. Saints are now disregarded and just expected to be the bench mark without any actual respect re MOS etc. Nice Jack was recognised but a team who have won the LLS and are going for a fourth title ion four years should really be sweeping awards boards, shouldn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray77
Me personally think field as been robbed of it but that makes it even better :d
Welsby is 100% a future MOS what a player !!!
Hate to say it but peet deserved coach of the year 1st season as a super league coach and won challenge cup and finished 2nd I am pretty sure though peet would sooner be in woolfes position then receiving a coach of the year award
And lest we forget...."So Jack congratulations on being superleagues brightest young talent.... So how were you feeling last night re: your disciplinary hearing"?? Sky Shithouses
Please tell me that didn't happen? Sky will take any opportunity to talk the game down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alshep
Tired of Bill Arthur commenting on how few people are at the game, or surprise that there is a large crowd
Bang on. The sport is just rewarding mediocrity with MoS and coach of the year and becoming even more of a joke year after year. As someone else has said, it's almost like a taking part award for someone in the teams that have no chance getting to a final never mind winning one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray77
I like Matty Peet and Rowley and Smith have done well but Woolf has been robbed. League Leaders with all that he has had to contend with in terms of injuries and they fail to give him the recognition he deserves. And yes Lomax would be my man of steel. The words imply toughness and determination and for him to have continued to play and lead in the way he has done with a ruptured bicep is the very epitome of toughness and determination.
The MoS voting system, mirroring Australia, is flawed in the UK due to the lack of top line players across all teams. Hence why Croft probably accrued more points, in an average team the “superstar” bags 3 points pretty much every week. Just look at Wigan, French probably prevented Field from winning it. The points scoring system could dictate the “top 5” but the choice shouldn’t be a first past the post system, it should then be selected on the back of all factors, not just playing better than the players in your own team.
To think Woolf could do something that no other coach has achieved and not even win coach of the year even once is scandalous.
Part of the issue is doing it before the Grand Final. Leeds's golden generation was never going to win individual awards those years because they half assed the season and turned it on at the end. Winning the GF was their success but the awards are given out before then.
I think Woolf is a bit unlucky this time. Winning the LLS was enough for McNamara to get it last year but this year he's up against Peet who's made a massive difference to Wigan both on and off the field, and Rowley who, whilst getting credit for Salford's results in the second half of the season has somehow been exonorated for their nine defeats in 10 games earlier in the year. I'd have actually had Rohan Smith ahead of Rowley.
Personally I'd have given a joint award to Powell and Agar.
Not really sure why Peet was even in contention tbh. He's got the 2nd best squad in the league and coached them to 2nd place. Never threatened to get 1st. Won a CC but limped out at the semi-final. Their year has been good but it's not like he's shown a load of skill to get out of his team what he's got out of them.
Rowley or Woolf all day. I would say Rohan Smith deserves an honourable mention but he looks better due to how awful Agar is. That squad should be walking into the play-offs at the bare minimum. They've been fantastic in the play-offs, though I guess it's all decided before the play-offs start.
Rowley has shown real skill in getting that squad to where he's got them, really great stuff. Everyone had them on for a relegation scrap at the start of the year. Squad full of journeymen (except Croft). Got them playing really scintillating rugby, turned over all the big teams and got into the play-offs. Great stuff from him.
Woolf self explanatory. Excellence week after week, year after year. Won the lot in his time here, and possibly would have won the super league title in every single year he's been in the comp but never got coach of the year. Pathetic and shows it up for the absolute sham that it is imo.
Croft winning MoS is laughable. The top 3 was laughable in general imo. French, Lomax, Field. In that order. Shout out to Joe Batchelor too who has been excellent week in and week out and probably got nowhere near.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poysaint
STOP talking sense...................
Oh It happened!! Asked him exactly what were you doing at about 7:15 last night!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVenRouge
The big deal about the Bevan French deal was laughable. In reality Wigan must have been hanging on to announce it as a morale booster in the week prior to them appearing in the Grand Final...Oh well, nevermind,
If you take French and Field out of the equation and then just go ahead and take Woolf and Saints out too then I can see the merits of Croft and Rowley taking the RL's twisted logic awards. Peet knows how lucky he is to have those 2 in his mediocre team and I hope he remembers that when he's spit polishing his award.
Tbh I don't think the MOS is worth bothering about . The selection process is a joke and if we had players winning it on a regular basis that would mean we are bang average at best .
They have done well to keep French it must have cost them an arm and a leg and a brown jiffy bag envelope. Not always good for team morale if his salary is say twice the amount of the players who create the try's for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Eddington
I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
2013 - Danny Brough
2014 - Daryl Clark
2015 - Zak Hardaker
2016 - Danny Houghton
2017 - Luke Gale
2018 - Ben Barba
2019 - Jackson Hastings
2020 - Paul McShane
2021 - Sam Tomkins
2022 - Brodie Croft
It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
That's a shocking listQuote:
Originally Posted by Samphire15
Vs this listQuote:
Originally Posted by Samphire15
2008 James Graham St Helens
2007 James Roby St Helens
2006 Paul Wellens St Helens
2005 Jamie Lyon St Helens
2004 Andy Farrell Wigan Warriors
2003 Jamie Peacock Bradford Bulls
2002 Paul Sculthorpe St Helens
2001 Paul Sculthorpe St Helens
2000 Sean Long St Helens
1999 Adrian Vowles Castleford Tigers
1998 Iestyn Harris Leeds Rhinos
1997 James Lowes Bradford Bulls
1996 Andy Farrell Wigan Warriors
1995 Denis Betts Wigan
1994 Jonathan Davies Warrington
1993 Andy Platt Wigan
1992 Dean Bell Wigan
1991 Garry Schofield Leeds
1990 Shaun Edwards Wigan
1989 Ellery Hanley Wigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by STIDDY
Lomax as been the best in SL for about 3 years.
These awards aren't worth getting worked up about, 9 of the last ten MOS winners would swap an individual honour for a GF ring in a heartbeat (only Hardaker got both in the same year).
I think Field was the obvious choice, in the end he has probably suffered due to French being in form for Wigan at the back end of the year.
I know we shouldn't listen to the Aussies as much as we do but saying that a guy that couldn't get a job to save his life in the NRL is the best player in our league is just awful and makes us look like a joke.
I can understand the politics behind picking Welsby as MOS. He has just won young player back to back which I think only Andy Farrell has done. It would be a bit of a statement in a World Cup year to pin the RFLs flag to the next English superstar.
So Field was the best player, Welsby the best for the games image, Croft a joke.
Brough in 2013 was a part of a great Huddersfield side that should have been champions. Hardacker was good for Leeds in 2015 but probably deserved it more in 2017 instead of Gale. The rest are all very meh and don't really represent who was good that season. Pre then we weren't short of bad MOS. Vowels in 1999 was a particularly poor choice given that it should have really been a Bulls player. Henry Paul or Jamie Peacock would have been much better choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samphire15
Rugby League suffers terribly from trophy syndrome. I dont know if it is a northern thing or just an RL thing but we hate celebrating winners.
These players were all brilliant in the year they won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samphire15
So to answer your question, most if not all would. In some of these years Saints really struggled, it shouldn't be forgotten.
If Luke Walsh hadn't suffered the terrible injury he did, he would've stood a very good chance in 2014.
Luke Gale was the best half in the competition in 2017 in that fantastic Cas side at the time.
Hastings was great for Salford and better than Lomax and Fages in 2019.
Tomkins was better than Coote last year.
Croft has been better than Lomax and Welsby this year.
And on Roby, there have been years when he hasn't been the best 9. Clark and Houghton have been better than him at times (as above) and there was a year when Matt Parcell was too.
For me it was only Barba who I would've picked as MoS. He was the standout player in the competition in 2018 and was an absolute joy to watch.
I have seen some very crazy comments tonight with the disciplinary news, but nothing takes the biscuit like there was a period where Houghton was better than Roby!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson
In fairness to Danny Houghton, in his pomp he was very good for Hull. Off memory, think this was the period when they had their (relative) purple patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by magic superbeetle
But you need to understand that there are years when Roby loses all his skills and abilities that he’s acquired over many years, meaning that players like Houghton automatically become better than himQuote:
Originally Posted by magic superbeetle
When a new challenger appears he just gets them all back!
Anyone can have one good year. There’s arguments for all of these to be reasonable men of steel based on the seasons they had. Except for Paul McShane, that one is complete bollocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samphire15
There’s often a slight Yorkshire bias when the awards are given out for some reason, not sure why
Which is sort of the point people have been trying to make. A good player elevating a team above complete mediocrity will always win out against the great player in the great team as it currently stands. In 2016 Hull finished 3rd on points difference (equal with Saints) and lost in the playoff semi finals (same as Saints). I know they won the CC that year, but that alone can’t have made him the best player in the competition that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson
MS there is not one season when Roby was not as good if not better than them 9`s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson
Clark had that good season but even then he was equal not better.
Three 9`s in the last decade!! yet Cunnigham never won it, Roby once, true reflection of the best???
I agree on Hastings, Tomkins and Hardaker in 2015 was very good.
Croft has been as good as Johnny this year not better or stand out.
I pretty much agree with this. Clark did have one very good year when it was a toss up between him and Roby. Houghton was probably second best 9 to Robes a few times, but quite a gap between them. I don’t begrudge Croft winning it this season, was he the best player, probably not. But he did have a good season and got the rest of the Salford back line firing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger
I find it difficult to understand why Lomax always seems to be overlooked.
So, if the previous way of selection (i.e. back to the players picking via a voting system) would these players really have won in their years?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble
As JBT states, look at the years before this, no one could really argue with the winners then as they were probably the best player in the League at that time.
They got rid of the old system as they said it was being abused:
1. Players couldn't vote for anyone in their club
2. Some of the players voting was open to ridicule, but as the voting outcome was presented for all to see, it painted them, not the outcome in a bad light.
Now we have a system where it's decided on a match-by-match basis, so for teams like Saints and Wigan, literally, anyone from the 17 could pick up the MoM points, whereas, as previously stated, a good player in an average team will tend to pick up the majority of the points in their matches. I've also seen what I think are some laughable decisions for MoM in the live games - how many times is a player picked as MoM when, say, he's scored a hat-trick of tries, yet they were all just simple run-ins, rather than the player(s), that did the work to create those tries?
With the current system, it's effectively one person's point of view that decides the points, whereas, under the old system, it was a collective decision, spread across 200-300 players, choosing the player that they thought had performed the best across the whole season, not just in selective matches.