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Reacher
22nd January 2008, 20:40
This is very topical at the moment due to the forthcoming Manchester derby on Feb 10th on the 50th anniversary of Munich. On Century FM legends show tonight, a lot of callers were discussing it, and it has been muted from City's official supporters club today that they would prefer a minutes applause.

I personally agree with Utd's official stance on it, that given that 23 died,then that should warrant a minutes silence.

What do you feel is the most respectful method of remembering fallen heroes? If we had one at Saints would you prefer silence or applause?

( PS Despondent Dave- This is not to start an argument with you again. It is a genuine question)

Blobbynator
22nd January 2008, 20:45
I think it depends on the circumstances to be honest. If it's a tragic event e.g. a murder or a plane crash for example then a minute's silence seems more appropriate to me. But, if someone has died of natural causes in old age, then I think it's good to 'celebrate the life' and give them a minute's applause.

For the Munich incident, a minute's silence seems more appropriate to me.

THELAST3YARDS
22nd January 2008, 20:56
Applause is the way to go in this day and age.

Sad state of affairs but you can't get idiots spoiling a minutes applause really.

Sadfish
22nd January 2008, 21:08
i'd prefer a minutes applause myself any day.

When Linda died last year the minutes silence was superbly adhered to, but its not always the case.

Supersaint
22nd January 2008, 21:22
I think it should be a minutes round of applause to the clowns who decided that it would be a bright idea to put such a fixture on the date of the disaster.

Div
22nd January 2008, 23:03
Silence . On the odd occasion some numpty shouts out they are usually silenced quickly by the decent majority. The one at Warrington after the IRA bomb was the most eerie I have experienced . You could hear the turnstiles clicking.

As for the manchester derby one there were other people involved , journalists and even people connected to City were there not ?

Reacher
22nd January 2008, 23:33
Silence . On the odd occasion some numpty shouts out they are usually silenced quickly by the decent majority. The one at Warrington after the IRA bomb was the most eerie I have experienced . You could hear the turnstiles clicking.

As for the manchester derby one there were other people involved , journalists and even people connected to City were there not ?

I agree with you Div, I think silence is better too. Everton fans were magnificent when Sir Matt Busby died and the teams were led out by a lone piper. That was a real solemn experience.

And in answer to your question, one of the dead was Frank Swift, an ex city player and journalist.

DD
23rd January 2008, 10:32
I'll copy and paste what I put on RL Fans.


It's come to a sad state of affairs when anyone has to resort to coming out and saying this but there is no doubt our club are shitting bricks on this one, because just one dissenter and it will be a front page job and the club's reputation will take a permanent trip down the plug hole.

Of course, whilst a minute's silence highlights the odd nutter, the misconception is that a minute's applause doesn't, because there is likely to be 200 rather than 2 making offensive comments during the minute thinking that no-one will hear them. There may even be songs visibly heard on the TV microphones. I really am not sure Kevin Parker has thought about this, although past experience tells me thinking about things has never really been his forte!

If people don't want to respect it, they'll think about their club maybe, they might worry about life bans. Give them a minute of noise and it's all on, they'll have no inhibitions.

On the flip side of the coin though, why a minute's applause for someone who died last week in tragic circumstances, and a minute's silence for something that happened half a century ago.

It's all getting a bit silly now and no-one knows what is appropriate for what. Of course it would be a minute's silence for a tragedy that was still fresh in the memories, but surely by now we are onto applause territory (a la Jock Stein) because there comes a point when the grieving subsides and you want to celebrate the lives of a great football team. In the current trend of applauding anyone who's died, surely it's time to commemorate the Busby Babes with a celebration of what they achieved for MUFC.

If we all just went back to minute's silences then there would never be this discussion. I actually feel the minute's applause is a bit of a tacky sideshow. Minute's silences are rarely broken these days. It's not like the 80s when every one degenerated into a farce.

DD
23rd January 2008, 10:39
Silence . On the odd occasion some numpty shouts out they are usually silenced quickly by the decent majority.

Div. Anyone, who is stupid enough to ‘silence’ anyone in a minute’s silence is not a ‘decent majority’. They are ••••wits who are making every bit as much noise as the people they think they are better than and it’s such people who make 90% of the noise during minute’s silences. They think they are heroes when, in actual fact, they must be remarkably thick.

Saint Bert
23rd January 2008, 10:44
If we all just went back to minute's silences then there would never be this discussion. I actually feel the minute's applause is a bit of a tacky sideshow.

Agreed! :eek:

What I do hate though is when some idiot breaks the respectfull silence and then is shouted down by others who end up making more niose. Leave them in stupid isolation then give them grief afterwards.

Remember a 1 minutes silence at Anflield, a couple of United started shouting about Liverpool previous record on mocking Munich, the abuse that these 2 people got was far worse than anything handed out to the scousers that day, however all the Liverpool fans heard was noise.

Reacher
23rd January 2008, 12:14
I think that Utd have handled this well apart from the AIG logo on the glass display on the East Stand. That corporate image is not necessary when remembering such an occasion. To be fair to City they have played their part too with the retro non-sponsored playing shirt that they will wear.

I suspect that the relatives will have been spoken to and asked for their feelings and that is probably why the minutes applause idea has been refuted. As I have said above, the death of 23 deserves silence.

I dont like the applause either. Its like being in church and the priest reads out the recently deceased. Everyone does not start clapping. Silence is respectful and allows time to reflect and to remember.

Div
23rd January 2008, 13:40
Div. Anyone, who is stupid enough to ‘silence’ anyone in a minute’s silence is not a ‘decent majority’. They are ••••wits who are making every bit as much noise as the people they think they are better than and it’s such people who make 90% of the noise during minute’s silences. They think they are heroes when, in actual fact, they must be remarkably thick.



I didnt actually mean verbally. 'Looks' and 'prods' can work wonders.

welshsaint
23rd January 2008, 14:38
"On the flip side of the coin though, why a minute's applause for someone who died last week in tragic circumstances, and a minute's silence for something that happened half a century ago."

...showing my age here now... whilst I am old enough to remember it I was not old enough to be involved in the reality. There are many people still alive for whom the tragedy became part of their working lives or lost relatives or friends.
50 years ago silence was appropriate. There will be people present who would consider anything else disrespectful. So as not only a mark of respect for those who lost their lives but also those who sought to comfort and rebuild - silence should be the order of the day.......in my humble opinion.

DD
23rd January 2008, 14:56
"On the flip side of the coin though, why a minute's applause for someone who died last week in tragic circumstances, and a minute's silence for something that happened half a century ago."

...showing my age here now... whilst I am old enough to remember it I was not old enough to be involved in the reality. There are many people still alive for whom the tragedy became part of their working lives or lost relatives or friends.
50 years ago silence was appropriate. There will be people present who would consider anything else disrespectful. So as not only a mark of respect for those who lost their lives but also those who sought to comfort and rebuild - silence should be the order of the day.......in my humble opinion.

I would personally have a minute's silence all the time really. I was just playing the Devil's Advocate.

When we have a minute's applause for a teenager shot dead two days earlier then it's obvious people have lost sight of why it was brought in, but if it's applicable for that, it's applicable for this.

Personally I think it's applicable for neither.

The Chair Maker
23rd January 2008, 15:05
A minutes silence or nothing at all.

Its insulting to think that our society has sunk so low that we need to make a noise to drown out the odd idiot.

Best thing to do is to shame them by pointing them out in the ground

DD
23rd January 2008, 17:31
A minutes silence or nothing at all.

Its insulting to think that our society has sunk so low that we need to make a noise to drown out the odd idiot.

Best thing to do is to shame them by pointing them out in the ground

That wasn't why it was brought in, to be fair.

It was brought in as a way of celebrating a life rather than mourning it. This policy was adopted by the Italians for years and was first brought over here by Celtic, remembering the 20th anniversary of Jock Stein's death.

At the time, generally speaking, minute's silences were better observed than they have ever been.

Alas, the rest of football, seemed to think that it was a good idea, on the off chance that it would drown out the odd lone voice, and now it has become the norm.

It wasn't brought in through necessity that's for sure.

Greengrass
23rd January 2008, 23:43
On the 11/11 at 11 o'clock go down to the cenotaph and start clapping see how it goes down.

parrsaint
24th January 2008, 01:10
On the 11/11 at 11 o'clock go down to the cenotaph and start clapping see how it goes down.

Like an anvil off a cliff.

A minutes silence is always far more dignified than a minutes applause.

Noah Sleeroader
25th January 2008, 02:16
On the 11/11 at 11 o'clock.

Personally, I believe that this is the only time that the silence is justified. To observe it on any other occasion devalues it. I hold the silence on 11/11 wherever I happen to be in remembrance of all those poor lads who ceased to exist between 1914 & 1918.

Saint Bert
25th January 2008, 09:30
I believe it fits the occasion and people directly involved, a minutes silence is appropriate in most cases, especially when remembering tragedy or conflict.

When people have lived their life to the full and have died at an old age, their can be arguments that a minutes applause is the way to go, to give appreciation for the enjoyment and memories afforded to us by someone special who we did not in all fact know personally, George Best being the perfect example of this.

Ultimately everyone is different, some grieve, some celebrate life while remembering, the decision has been made by the people involved, that being the families of the munich tragedy and Manchester United FC. There decision to commemorate Feb 6th in the way they wish to should be respected no matter what they have decided.

ScouseSaint
25th January 2008, 21:16
For rememberance of a tragedy such as this, it should be silence.

Banter is one thing, but any lowlife who cannot put what are, in comparison, trivial club rivalries aside for ONE MINUTE of their life- well, there must be something wrong there. I don't know what they think they are going to achieve by spoiling it, but God forbid any tragedy ever hits them or their family.....

Greengrass
26th January 2008, 00:04
For rememberance of a tragedy such as this, it should be silence.

Banter is one thing, but any lowlife who cannot put what are, in comparison, trivial club rivalries aside for ONE MINUTE of their life- well, there must be something wrong there. I don't know what they think they are going to achieve by spoiling it, but God forbid any tragedy ever hits them or their family.....

Correct, if a minute of their god forsaken useless little lives cannot be spared then they show themselves to be the worthless rubbish they are.

DD
26th January 2008, 15:29
For rememberance of a tragedy such as this, it should be silence.

Banter is one thing, but any lowlife who cannot put what are, in comparison, trivial club rivalries aside for ONE MINUTE of their life- well, there must be something wrong there. I don't know what they think they are going to achieve by spoiling it, but God forbid any tragedy ever hits them or their family.....

Unfortunately though these people exist, but it's other people who end up copping the flack for it, hence the concern.

DD
31st January 2008, 11:23
Anyone want to buy a ticket!!!!? lol

Reacher
1st February 2008, 16:31
I can't believe the FA have reversed the decision to allow the minutes silence before the England v Switzerland friendly. Munich was nothing to do with England. All that will happen now is that the England "fans" will show themselves up to be what they really are.

This should never have happened.

the_messiah_saint
1st February 2008, 16:47
I can't believe the FA have reversed the decision to allow the minutes silence before the England v Switzerland friendly. Munich was nothing to do with England. All that will happen now is that the England "fans" will show themselves up to be what they really are.

This should never have happened.


Man Utd fans are England fans also!

People just want to pay their respects to the 23 who died that day!

Reacher
1st February 2008, 16:50
Man Utd fans are England fans also!

People just want to pay their respects to the 23 who died that day!

Trust me on this one. Do you not remember Beckham, Neville, Scholes et al, getting booed at Wembley when they were playing for England? I fear for this minutes silence, I really do.

the_messiah_saint
1st February 2008, 16:52
Agreed I'd forgiten about that one!

DD
1st February 2008, 17:12
I can't believe the FA have reversed the decision to allow the minutes silence before the England v Switzerland friendly. Munich was nothing to do with England. All that will happen now is that the England "fans" will show themselves up to be what they really are.

This should never have happened.

Can't see it being a problem myself.

You do have a very low opinion of society don't you? ;)

Reacher
1st February 2008, 17:20
Can't see it being a problem myself.

You do have a very low opinion of society don't you? ;)

I must admit, when I posted that, I started to think people will feel I am obsessed or something!! But I do feel it will be a problem and that there will be some ill feeling as a result.

I know that the official stance is that they want to pay their respects, but there is a lot of sheer hatred out there for anything Utd and some fans will see this as their shop window to play up.

WIGANHATER
4th February 2008, 14:34
I think it should be a minutes round of applause to the clowns who decided that it would be a bright idea to put such a fixture on the date of the disaster.


Spot on. The clubs had the fixtures 2 weeks before they went public and left it as they are. Lets face it City have their fair share of idiots especially at away games and although I'll be there and am looking forward to the game, but not looking forward to the "silence". Think I'll stay under the stands until kick off. Not sure yet. C'mon City!

Saint Bert
4th February 2008, 15:00
Spot on. The clubs had the fixtures 2 weeks before they went public and left it as they are.

The derby was the only game that would be appropriate on the 50th Anniversary, let's not forget that Frank Swift, a former City player and many a jounalist from Manchester also lost their lives that afternoon.

DD
4th February 2008, 16:26
The derby was the only game that would be appropriate on the 50th Anniversary, let's not forget that Frank Swift, a former City player and many a jounalist from Manchester also lost their lives that afternoon.

It's appropriate in a civilised world when all attendees behave in a civilised manner.

Alas, we all know that this fixture is the one Premier League fixture where the obeyance of all attendees cannot be guaranteed, so, whilst it would have been the most appropriate fixture in the times where everyone could be guaranteed to behave themselves, it probably isn't now.

One thing that is worth noting is that if that minute's silence does get disrupted, the GM police are going to have a very busy time after the match and I, for one, are somewhat concerned for my welfare after this one.

I should have opted for Hull KR!

Reacher
4th February 2008, 16:35
It's appropriate in a civilised world when all attendees behave in a civilised manner.

Alas, we all know that this fixture is the one Premier League fixture where the obeyance of all attendees cannot be guaranteed, so, whilst it would have been the most appropriate fixture in the times where everyone could be guaranteed to behave themselves, it probably isn't now.

One thing that is worth noting is that if that minute's silence does get disrupted, the GM police are going to have a very busy time after the match and I, for one, are somewhat concerned for my welfare after this one.

I should have opted for Hull KR!

Will make sure you are looked after. What you wearing? ;)

DD
4th February 2008, 17:27
Will make sure you are looked after. What you wearing? ;)

Anything but sky blue!

Black to blend in with the locals probably! :)