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Trev The Bear
29th November 2007, 11:34
As the nation settled down on Wednesday night to watch England play Croatia, I sensed an air of optimism in the land. A feeling that all would be well. I mean hey, England were holding their own against Brazil when Croatia didn’t even exist as a nation state. So what chance would these swarthy-looking Yugo-ruffians have? They were minnows in a tank of sharks. They weren’t going to be beaten. They were going to be eaten.

Hmmm. I’m afraid I knew we were going to lose moments before the match began. I looked at our players mumbling their way through the national anthem and realised they didn’t really care about playing for England. Because they don’t really know what England is. And truth be told, neither do I.

When I was their age it was crystal clear. Newspapers would report: “Fog in the Channel: Europe cut off.” Peter Ustinov would arrive at JFK airport and, having studied the signs saying “US citizens” and “Aliens”, he’d ask a security guard where the British should go. We were separate, different, better.

We had hardback dark blue passports with a personal message from the Queen on the inside cover “requiring” that foreign border guards allow the bearer to do whatever he or she pleased without let or hindrance. Slap one of those down on a Frenchman’s desk and the crack of invitation grade cardboard would have the greasy little oik sitting up straight; that’s for sure.

We had saved the world from tyranny so often we’d lost count; we’d brought decency, truth and cricket to every continent and every coral pinprick. We’d sailed iron steamships into America when they were still using coracles. We were defined by our brilliance, our superiority, our technical know-how.

Today, things are rather different. Mention the war and you’ll be told by an outreach counsellor that we must empathise with the Germans, who are coming to terms with their mistakes of the past. “And you know, children, it was actually the British who invented concentration camps . . .”

Empire? When I was at school, teachers spoke with pride about how a little island in the north Atlantic turned a quarter of the world pink, but now all teachers talk about is the slave trade and how we must hang our heads in shame.
Right. So we must forgive Germany for invading Poland. But I must beat myself to death every night because my great-great-great-grandad moved some chap from a hellhole in Ghana to Barbados. In fact I can’t even say we’re British any more because then all of Scotland would rush over the border, pour porridge down my trousers and push a thistle up my bottom.

I believe people need to feel like they’re part of a gang, part of a tribe. And I also believe we need to feel pride in our gang. But all we ever hear now is that we in England have nothing to be proud about. In a world of righteousness we are the child molesters and rapists.
Our soldiers were murderers. Our empire builders were thieves. Our class system was ridiculous and our industrial revolution set in motion a chain of events that, eventually, will kill every polar bear in the Arctic.

And it gets so much worse. Because if you say you are a patriot, men with beards and sandals will come round to your house in the night and daub BNP slogans on your front door. This is the only country in the world where the national flag is deemed offensive. Small wonder the England players were disinclined to sing the national anthem with any gusto. It’s in English and that’s offensive too. Unless it’s simultaneously translated into Urdu, for the deaf.

Then there’s our national character. In the past, boys were told in school assembly that their mothers had died and were expected to get over it in a nice game of rugby. Crying only happened abroad. Not any more. We were ordered to weep like Americans when Diana died, and no local news report is complete today without some fat oik sobbing because his house has fallen over. I sometimes get the impression Kate McCann is being hounded precisely because she has a stiff upper lip.

Every day we read obituaries about men who pressed on with the attack on a German machinegun nest even though their arms and legs had been blown off. Today disabled people get a statue in Trafalgar Square just because they got pregnant. Tomorrow all the obituaries will be for those who saved others from certain death by insisting they wear high visibility jackets. Cowardice is the new bravery.

As for that wounded soldier seen recently sporting a T-shirt that said: “I went to Afghanistan and all I got was this crappy false leg,” I call that typically English. But not any more. It’s appalling. A slight on disabled people. And you shouldn’t have been in Afghanistan in the first place, you baby killer.
Do you see? We can’t be proud of our past because it’s all bad, we can’t use British humour because it’s offensive and we can’t use understatement to deal with a crisis because the army of state-sponsored counsellors say we’ve got to sob uncontrollably at every small thing.

I want to end with a question. It’s addressed to all the equal opportunity, human rights, diet carbon, back room, bleeding heart liberals who advise the government: “I am English. Why is that a good thing?”
I bet they don’t have an answer. And until they can come up with one, chances are we’ll never win at football again.

Greengrass
29th November 2007, 14:06
Spot on just about sums up this crumbling country of ours, jeesh I've typed this and I am not wearing a hard hat goggles and high visibility clothing let me hide before the politically correct health and safety police come and lock me up after of course freeing a child murderer to make the space.

Knight Shadow
29th November 2007, 15:18
The man is right but the thing is we know what is wrong but i wonder if any body can name me a politician who is in a high place in the cabinet or shadow cabinet that has the following item..A SPINE! yes the country has a good NHS it is miles better than it use to be! but the armed forces legs have been taken from under than they more bark and no bite we are relying on there skills they have will less equipment and asking more for less money...to be blunt for every positive there is a negative and is a no win situation clarkson is speaking the truth but we lack the means to change it the wheels are wobbling along and until it goes tit's up big time nothing will be done it's a fact

DeKay
29th November 2007, 18:54
Our country is the only country where veterans of the armed forces are afraid to go to the off license incase they get stabbed in the eye by a child wearing a sweater with a hood on it.

Surely that's something to be proud of?

The only place you see true british behavior is abroad, and any person, from any nation, will tell you the same.
You can always spot "Das Inglander" on holiday, just as you can always hear the American... or find the German's Sunbed!

He'll be the one in the football shirt, trying to barter for a pie and chips in loud, slow English.

daves
29th November 2007, 20:15
Absolutely superb read.

I assume the Clarkson responsible is Jeremy,the auto-freak.I must admit I've never taken much notice of Mr Clarkson in the past as,my opinion of a car extends no further than a means of getting from point A to point B,but he is spot on with that article.

alf wayliner
29th November 2007, 20:22
Whats really wrong with this country is that we've started listening to middle class pr!cks called Jeremy!

Tony Kay
29th November 2007, 20:45
Lets have a neo con revolution, that would be much better, wouldn't it?

Greengrass
29th November 2007, 21:49
lol

As a summary, Id ask people to concentrate on what they have got not what they have not got. .

Taxes on everything except air, hospitals rife with MRSA, a good chance of being beaten up by teenagers, a generation with absolutely no respect for anything or anyone, Police powerless to beat the problems, gridlock on the roads, ever rising fuel prices, just a few of the things we have got.

And I suppose if I bought a pet pig and called it Mohammed I'd be jailed for life as inciting racism is the only crime the police will DEFINATELY act upon in this country(murder may mean a couple of community hobby bobbies missing their tea break).

The Greatest
29th November 2007, 22:02
Taxes on everything except air,).

Not true.


hospitals rife with MRSA, ).


again, not true. An unbelievable small number of people contract MRSA. Furthermore, if you knew anything about MRSA you would understand why there is more chance of contracting it in hospital than outside of hospital.


a good chance of being beaten up by teenagers, ).

Barely happens, just when it does it is grossly over exaggerated. The vast majority of people manage to go through life without being randomly tw@tted for no good reason.


a generation with absolutely no respect for anything or anyone,).

To an extent I agree with that one. Its still over exaggerated though.


Police powerless to beat the problems,

Aye. There are no such things as courts and jails etc...


gridlock on the roads,,

big deal


ever rising fuel prices,,

and rising wages


just a few of the things we have got.


ah, so your hard done to then. Perhaps you want to think it through a bit more. When you do, you will see how much of a tit you sound.

alf wayliner
29th November 2007, 22:47
And I suppose if I bought a pet pig and called it Mohammed I'd be jailed for life as inciting racism .
Surely that isn't racism, just good old fashioned religious intolerance!

ticker
30th November 2007, 00:24
Wasnt there a boxer who changed his name to Mohammid. Not many whipped him. Seriously though in 5 years time the nearest Asian Country to France will be England. Churches knocked down and Mosques built daily.

When i was at school being British meant you where either English, Scotish or Welsh. Nowadays theres about 50 different nationalities claiming to be British. True, most other countries hate us but when a war breaks out they all want to have us on their side.

This Country needs someone with a voice louder than the P.C. brigade.

Noah Sleeroader
30th November 2007, 01:49
Surely that isn't racism, just good old fashioned religious intolerance!

Errr! This is England & surely only one religion is relevant (if religious lies & crap float your boats) & that religion is Church of England. All other religions are irrelevant, do not count & are possibly illegal. :mad: lol lol

Burn the unbelievers. i.e. Wigginers, Wires. Yorkists, etc.

the_messiah_saint
30th November 2007, 01:54
Whats really wrong with this country is that we've started listening to middle class pr!cks called Jeremy!

Better clarkson than the idiots we have running this so called country where the W.A.S.P Has no rights you can be of any other european country in britain be it black ,gay, muslim you have more rights than the country man my grandad fought and died for!

WASP= White Anglo Saxon protestant

I've aired my opion now I feel better:)

Noah Sleeroader
30th November 2007, 02:05
WASP= White Anglo Saxon protestant

Sooo! definately not a white supremacist, KKK, fascist jew hater then ?

Or as some parts of the Yoo Ess of A would call you "A good 'ol n*****r burner."

the_messiah_saint
30th November 2007, 02:11
Sooo! definately not a white supremacist, KKK, fascist jew hater then ?

Or as some parts of the Yoo Ess of A would call you "A good 'ol n*****r burner."

Nope But i dont think reading the mail helps it really puts my back up that paper does and yet I still by it everyday go figure!

as for wasp its on our family tree its what the class the family from more than 600 years ago! ;)

Greengrass
30th November 2007, 09:07
Surely that isn't racism, just good old fashioned religious intolerance!

Me Religious! sorry I don't do religion it causes too much trouble.;)

warringtonsaint
30th November 2007, 13:42
This was a letter submitted to a national newspaper in the wake of the bombings in London.

Whether or not "The Greatest" agrees or not these I suspect are the views held by the silent majority in this country.

"BRITAIN FOREVER

After many cities not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.

After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT BRITONS MUST ADAPT.

Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits. However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the "politically correct" crowd begins complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of London being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women many of whom laid down their lives that we might enjoy these freedoms.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language; therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

We are a Christian country because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation. It is certainly appropriate to display the Cross on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If the Union Flag offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it."

Maybe we are better off than the majority of people in the World, but there is no denying that we have gone significantly backwards in the fairly recent past.

Education, the Health Service, Public Transport, our Welfare provision, to name but a few, are a shambles - they were once the envy of the World.

RedVee Admin
30th November 2007, 15:18
Thatcher's Britain.


Time to get the views of the Aussie Politicians...


Adopt Our Values or Go Home, Foreign-Born Muslims Told (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Car chive%5C200602%5CFOR20060224b.html)


Anyone wanting to live under Islamic law (shari'a) might feel more comfortable living in countries where it is applied, such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, federal Treasurer Peter Costello said in an address to the Sydney Institute.

.....

"Before entering a mosque visitors are asked to take off their shoes," Costello said. "This is a sign of respect. If you have a strong objection to walking in your socks don't enter the mosque.

"Before becoming an Australian you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objection to those values, don't come to Australia."

Shakespeare
30th November 2007, 18:05
Clean. It bored me.

Supersaint
30th November 2007, 18:11
http://marknicodemo.mu.nu/archives/Cartman.bmp

warringtonsaint
30th November 2007, 18:15
Clean. It bored me.

Another thing this country has lost - the right to free speech ;)

The Greatest
30th November 2007, 18:31
Image deemed offensive ;)

The Greatest
30th November 2007, 18:40
lol

alf wayliner
30th November 2007, 20:39
This was a letter submitted to a national newspaper in the wake of the bombings in London.

Whether or not "The Greatest" agrees or not these I suspect are the views held by the silent majority in this country.

"BRITAIN FOREVER

After many cities not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights.

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.

After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT BRITONS MUST ADAPT.

Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits. However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the "politically correct" crowd begins complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of London being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women many of whom laid down their lives that we might enjoy these freedoms.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language; therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

We are a Christian country because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation. It is certainly appropriate to display the Cross on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If the Union Flag offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it."

Maybe we are better off than the majority of people in the World, but there is no denying that we have gone significantly backwards in the fairly recent past.

Education, the Health Service, Public Transport, our Welfare provision, to name but a few, are a shambles - they were once the envy of the World.
This shows the ignorance of some people here about their own country, answer me these questions

Which national newspaper was it published in?

Secondly, when did Birmingham City council start issuing driving Licences?

Thirdly, what is our National pledge?

Fourthly, what is our National Motto?

Fifthly, when was this country founded on Christian values?

And finally, can anyone find some corrobative evidence to actually back up the football shirt story, I can't

You'll struggle to answer these questions and the reason is that this particular email is an amended version of one that originated in the USA a couple of years ago, a country incidentally that does have a national motto (In God We Trust) and a pledge and where city councils may be able to issue driving licences and also a country that was very definately founded on Christian principles.

The right wing tossers that amended it haven't even got the intelligence to recognise that it talks about things that aren't relevant to the country that they espouse to love and they show their ignorance of their own traditions whilst berating others for the same "crime". Let them feck off to the good ole US of A, they seem to know a lot more about there than here!

The Greatest
30th November 2007, 20:49
leave him alone. It was written in the sun or the star, it must be true. :D

alf wayliner
30th November 2007, 20:52
Point taken, I withdraw my statement m'lud:D

The Chair Maker
30th November 2007, 23:01
This is the new Britain, the Britain of the caring PC brigade.

One were injuresd soldiers undergoing rehabilitation are jeered out of a public swimming pool.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/22/narmy322.xml

alf wayliner
30th November 2007, 23:44
This is the new Britain, the Britain of the caring PC brigade.

One were injuresd soldiers undergoing rehabilitation are jeered out of a public swimming pool.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/22/narmy322.xml

I'd have to agree that that is outrageous, the way we treat disabled people in this country is shocking!

AnonymousSaint
1st December 2007, 01:51
So correct ... I can't help but think if Clarkson was in charge of the country we'd all become, German and American hating car freaks.

One of the problems comes from people living in council houses bringing up 6 or 7 children just on benefits and cannot be bothered to go out and get a job.

I say do away with taxes those who have the were-with all to go and get jobs shouldn't have to pay towards people that cannot be arsed going to get a job, it just makes me so god damn angry !! Let those without jobs wallow in the gutter.

On the note of national pride whenever I go to sport final or international game of any sort I sing the national anthem with pride, personally it disgusts me to hear people booing other national anthems. If you go to the USA and you played their National Anthem in a school all pupils would stand and acknowledge, if you did that in a school in our country you would most likely get bullied or for a cheap laugh.

The only current sports person playing nowadays that has any pride when singing the national anthem is Lawrence Dallaglio, and he is not even fully English !!!

Finally on the note of sport, the only sport that I know of that the sportsmen have to work for their wages is Rugby League, they don't get obscene amounts of money, they play with passion and they earn their wages. Whereas I bet after the Croatia game the England players were thinking 'Hmmm where could I go next year for my holidays', there is no passion left in sport, except R League.

I will not start on the point of footballers being puffs, I could write a book about that.

Another unbelievable thing is people that become famous for doing shit all !!. People from the past were famous for having talents, not sitting on their arses trying to become famous, it makes me even more angry when people say i am here to become famous and pointless magazines OK, Heat etc. make this true it just ••••es me off.

I have a quote about talentless people, my favorite quote of all time, this is about Victoria Beckham by Terry Wogan:

'Victoria Beckham is an inspiration for all talentless people around the world'

Sometimes I just lie in bed and think when I get old I will go and live on a desert island somewhere free from harm and worries. Would be heaven on earth.

Tallahassee
1st December 2007, 20:03
I like Clarkson,I would for vote for him!lol

The Greatest
1st December 2007, 20:42
This is the new Britain, the Britain of the caring PC brigade.

One were injuresd soldiers undergoing rehabilitation are jeered out of a public swimming pool.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/22/narmy322.xml

It is outrageous, but I dont quite know how you put this down to political correctness. It isnt a government decision. It isnt a local council decision. It isnt even the decision of anyone who has any power. It is sheer retardedness (excuse the terminology) from an individual or two.

saint_me
1st December 2007, 21:10
It has been said by quite a few people but if this country carries on the way it is then English will be a second or third language in this country and we will also be the minority in this country. I work in a call centre (not very exciting i know) and take around 100 calls per day with at least 30-40% of those callers having difficulty to speak English and being foriegn.

I remember reading in the paper and hearing on the news not so long ago about a soldier that was flown back from Iraq due to being wounded who was asked to take off his uniform in case it offended any body else in the hospital, bear in mind this was a so called military ward, for me this is absolutely disgraceful, this man has been fighting somebody elses war in a foriegn country and is then being asked to hide the fact that he is English and has been fighting in this war. Would this happen in any other country? would it balls.

We have basically no imigration laws, but a sign saying everybody welcome. And we have nobody in our so called government with the backbone to introduce any tougher laws infear of offending people which is absolutely ridiculous.

As for the England team not singing the national anthem or muttering through the words this is a joke, representing your country should be the biggest acheivement of your career, whether it is your debut or your 100th cap you should sing the anthem with pride and passion and if you don't know the words you should learn them, do you ever see a Kiwi not doing the Haka or not chanting the words? No.

anyway footballers are just ovepaid pre-madonnas (sp?)

The Greatest
1st December 2007, 22:12
It has been said by quite a few people but if this country carries on the way it is then English will be a second or third language in this country and we will also be the minority in this country.?)

Of course it will :lol:


I remember reading in the paper and hearing on the news not so long ago about a soldier that was flown back from Iraq due to being wounded who was asked to take off his uniform in case it offended any body else in the hospital, .?)

I also read in a paper once that if we all touched a picture of Rooneys broken metatarsel that it would magically heal.


this man has been fighting somebody elses war in a foriegn country

You'll find it was a war we started.



We have basically no imigration laws,

Yes we do. They are very complicated. They are also the same immigration laws a 9/10 of the developed world have and in line with international law.


As for the England team not singing the national anthem or muttering through the words this is a joke, representing your country should be the biggest acheivement of your career, whether it is your debut or your 100th cap you should sing the anthem with pride and passion and if you don't know the words you should learn them, do you ever see a Kiwi not doing the Haka or not chanting the words? No.

Ever thought its because out national anthem is nothing at all to do with our nationality? Its a song entirely dedicated to the queen. Maybe half of the players couldnt give a toss about the queen and maybe if it were a song about our country they would sing.


anyway footballers are just ovepaid pre-madonnas (sp?)

Well, you had to get something right in all that drivel.

saint_me
1st December 2007, 23:40
Quote:

I also read in a paper once that if we all touched a picture of Rooneys broken metatarsel that it would magically heal.



That was probably the same paper that put all the drivel in about reality shows?

Do you ever sit and think to yourself, some people have different views to me, but they are wrong? :???:

The Greatest
2nd December 2007, 00:05
Do you ever sit and think to yourself, some people have different views to me, but they are wrong? :???:

Nope. I sit and think why do people just believe any old drivel without checking out if its true or not.

Greengrass
2nd December 2007, 10:13
'Victoria Beckham is an inspiration for all talentless people around the world'



If you want to produce mindnumbing sh*te and then con the masses into buying it and then employ people to educate the morons into believing you are some world icon then her and her brain dead spouse have perfected it.

the_messiah_saint
2nd December 2007, 16:15
Nope. I sit and think why do people just believe any old drivel without checking out if its true or not.

And how do you know if its true or not! which oracle do you get all your true info from?

The Greatest
2nd December 2007, 16:31
And how do you know if its true or not! which oracle do you get all your true info from?

Ok then clever @rse, sit back and think about it for a few minutes. Think if the following is true or not.

1) Is it true that we WILL be speaking a foreign language in our own country and that English will be the sencond or 3rd language as "saint me" said. Seriously, think about it for a few seconds and tell me if its true that this WILL happen. If you think it will, then why?

2) Did we or did we not invade both Iraq and Afganistan. If so then am I right in saying that they are our wars not somebody elses?

3) Do you think its true that we have NO immigration laws. 0, zero, zip, zilch. Do you really think that there are absolutely no laws whatsoever regarding immigration or maybe Im right that there are and they are the same ones that the rest of europe use.

Shakespeare
2nd December 2007, 16:51
If you want to produce mindnumbing sh*te and then con the masses into buying it and then employ people to educate the morons into believing you are some world icon then her and her brain dead spouse have perfected it.

David does have a talent though. Victoria's talent is dieting.

Shakespeare
2nd December 2007, 16:51
Ok then clever @rse, sit back and think about it for a few minutes. Think if the following is true or not.

1) Is it true that we WILL be speaking a foreign language in our own country and that English will be the sencond or 3rd language as "saint me" said. Seriously, think about it for a few seconds and tell me if its true that this WILL happen. If you think it will, then why?

Que?

The Greatest
2nd December 2007, 16:54
Que?

:lol:

very good

the_messiah_saint
2nd December 2007, 18:56
Ok then clever @rse, sit back and think about it for a few minutes. Think if the following is true or not

1) Is it true that we WILL be speaking a foreign language in our own country and that English will be the sencond or 3rd language as "saint me" said. Seriously, think about it for a few seconds and tell me if its true that this WILL happen. If you think it will, then why? .


ans:
This country will always speak english first this is one point I agree with you on where to lazy as a nation to learn any other language so much so that we've converted half the world to speak english, let be honest when was the last time you went abroad to a different country and they cound'nt understand you!



2) Did we or did we not invade both Iraq and Afganistan. If so then am I right in saying that they are our wars not somebody elses?



ans:
maybe so but isnt this where nato comes in,and it was not only england and america in this war! so what about cosavo, bosnia, and so on, our soldiers die there also, so you think its right that tyrants should kill and torture there own people, and let their govements turn a blind eye.

3) Do you think its true that we have NO immigration laws. 0, zero, zip, zilch. Do you really think that there are absolutely no laws whatsoever regarding immigration or maybe Im right that there are and they are the same ones that the rest of europe use.

ans:
Yes we do have immigration laws are they being upheld? if so why is there so many people in this country working illegally when even the goverment say that the so called polish count in the country was 100'000 now they say its more like 500'000, as for the rest of europe i dont see france stopping them coming through there boarders when there on their way to our country!

Paul Cullen's Mantra
2nd December 2007, 19:08
When I was at college I wrote a thesis on this man. He delivers more eloquently and was far-ahead of his time....a truer word I have yet to hear..


natfront.com/powell.html

alf wayliner
2nd December 2007, 19:25
ans:
This country will always speak english first this is one point I agree with you on where to lazy as a nation to learn any other language so much so that we've converted half the world to speak english, let be honest when was the last time you went abroad to a different country and they cound'nt understand you!


QED

Paul Cullen's Mantra
2nd December 2007, 19:34
QED


.........His grammar and ignorance are quite spectacular though.

Paul Cullen's Mantra
2nd December 2007, 19:41
ETHICAL CONUNDRUMS

If the Pope said he was fallible, could he be right?

William Barrett, London NW10
Of course. He's only human, isn't he?

Barrie Williams, London
He'd have to be right, because he couldn't be wrong.

George Kaplan, Norwich

The Greatest
2nd December 2007, 20:31
ans:
This country will always speak english first this is one point I agree with you on where to lazy as a nation to learn any other language so much so that we've converted half the world to speak english, let be honest when was the last time you went abroad to a different country and they cound'nt understand you!!

Exactly. So if us English speak English now, and other non English countries use English as a first language, and most of the other countries use it at least as a second language and most countries use English for business communication then it really is daft to say that our country is moving away from using its own language. If anything, our language (as you have said) has probably been exported more than any other.




ans:
maybe so but isnt this where nato comes in,and it was not only england and america in this war!!!

It hasnt been supported by the UN or NATO. The UN opposed it and many NATO countries have not done a tap because they spooted the sham that it was.


so what about cosavo, bosnia, and so on, our soldiers die there also, so you think its right that tyrants should kill and torture there own people, and let their govements turn a blind eye.!!!

No, it isnt right. However we (the royal we being us and America) put Saddam Hussain in power when it suited us. Iraq used to be a wealthy and democratic country until we wanted to use Saddam for our own needs (opposing Iran). We (the royal we again) also supplied him with these chemical weapons that he used. So, if the above is true, then who are we to suddenly sweep in like the big hero's when we had a major role in creating this tyrant in the first place?



ans:
Yes we do have immigration laws are they being upheld? if so why is there so many people in this country working illegally when even the goverment say that the so called polish count in the country was 100'000 now they say its more like 500'000, as for the rest of europe i dont see france stopping them coming through there boarders when there on their way to our country!

People are misled on the immigrant situation. Some facts are as follows.

~500,000(ish) people immigrate to this country. This sounds a lot however no one mentions the 380,00 that emigrate out. So the nett inflow is nowhere near what is speculated.

We take a similar amount of immigrants in compared to Germany, France, America and many more countries. We are not a soft touch.... we do the same as most countries.

Most asylum seekers do not come here, we take a very small amount compared to other countries worldwide. Asylum seekers who come to this country are not entightled to benefits, houses or to work. They are held in centres while their cases are assessed.

It is mainly with illegal immigrants where there is confusion over how many are here. This is because by the very fact that they are illegal they are not on "the system". This is the same in any country.....how can any country possibly know how many people have sneaked in? Its impossible. Our situation is quite possibly no worse than anyone elses.....if anything its likely to be less because we have no land borders with anyone so it is more difficult to sneak in.

RedVee Admin
3rd December 2007, 10:33
What makes me laugh about people debating the immigrants issue is this:

Britain itself "illegally immigrated" into many countries. the Great Empire that Clarkson talks about, was created through Britains just waltzing into somewhere foreign and claiming it in the name of the King. In return, Britain has accepted many Empire and Commonwealth citizens over the years, yet some people who oppose that, kinda overlook why.

In recent years we have had a great number of Eastern Europeans come to Britain, legally as they are all part of the EU, who are milking our economy and minimum wage for all it's worth. They live in shared houses, spend their days either sleeping or working and then sending the money home to their families, as jobs and decent wages are hard to come by in their own countries.

Strange that so many Britons are up in arms about this. Didn't many of our lads go to Germany in the 80s, Ireland in the 90s, for the exact same reason?

The real thing that makes me cringe when the brigade get on the soapbox is this: the Eastern Europeans are doing all the shitty horrible jobs that the Brits won't lower themselves to do. Brits like the layabout benefit claimers who could do those jobs but can't be arsed to as they get free rent and a multitude of benefits for sitting around all day complaining about immigrant workers, who incidentally are paying tax to fund the benefits system.

Greengrass
3rd December 2007, 11:28
The real thing that makes me cringe when the brigade get on the soapbox is this: the Eastern Europeans are doing all the shitty horrible jobs that the Brits won't lower themselves to do. Brits like the layabout benefit claimers who could do those jobs but can't be arsed to as they get free rent and a multitude of benefits for sitting around all day complaining about immigrant workers, who incidentally are paying tax to fund the benefits system.

CORRECT.

R P McMurphy
3rd December 2007, 11:46
Do you think its true that we have NO immigration laws. 0, zero, zip, zilch. Do you really think that there are absolutely no laws whatsoever regarding immigration or maybe Im right that there are and they are the same ones that the rest of europe use.

They are techinically the same laws that the rest of the EU use, however not all EU countries adhere to all the relevant Articles of the European Human rights convention or the United Nations convention of human rights.

For example France will not accept asylum claims from people unless they are in fear of return to their country because they fear the authorities of that country. Consequently they do not accept asylum claim from countries such as Somalia where people have fled due to Clan wars.

Furthermore it is known in the line of work that I do that is linked to this issue that EU contries only provide the fraction of the benefits to Asylum seekers that the UK do, consequently for potential Asylum seekers/ Economic migrants the UK is a far more attractive proposition then other EU countries.

For me the fundamental problem in this country is a welfare system which was designed to help the poorest and most vulnerable but is actually used to support sections of our society that don't want to contribute.

R P McMurphy
3rd December 2007, 11:57
People are misled on the immigrant situation. Some facts are as follows.

~500,000(ish)
Most asylum seekers do not come here, we take a very small amount compared to other countries worldwide. Asylum seekers who come to this country are not entightled to benefits, houses or to work. They are held in centres while their cases are assessed.

It is mainly with illegal immigrants where there is confusion over how many are here. This is because by the very fact that they are illegal they are not on "the system". This is the same in any country.....how can any country possibly know how many people have sneaked in? Its impossible. Our situation is quite possibly no worse than anyone elses.....if anything its likely to be less because we have no land borders with anyone so it is more difficult to sneak in.

What centres are they held in ? A lot of them come under a scheme called Asylum support this provides housing, food and clothing. If the Asylum seekers have children they attend school and are entitled to health care like all citizins.

Statistically you are correct in saying that we are no worse then other countries however other EU countries have a system of removal where we don't.Essentially if you get in the UK illegally its very hard for you to be removed. The uk government have no idea how many illegal's are in the country.
Our system is not rigorous enough to process and deal with all the claims.

The Greatest
3rd December 2007, 14:08
Statistically you are correct in saying that we are no worse then other countries however other EU countries have a system of removal where we don't.Essentially if you get in the UK illegally its very hard for you to be removed. .

Yup. That is a problem. Those that are not deemed to require asylum have got to be shifted out.



The uk government have no idea how many illegal's are in the country.
Our system is not rigorous enough to process and deal with all the claims.

No country does tbh. I would bet good money that there are less illegals in our country than others simply because its harder to get accross to an island.




Furthermore it is known in the line of work that I do that is linked to this issue that EU contries only provide the fraction of the benefits to Asylum seekers that the UK do, consequently for potential Asylum seekers/ Economic migrants the UK is a far more attractive proposition then other EU countries.
.

Figures that I have seen (admittedly from a few years ago) showed that what we paid out in vouchers for basic living was comparable to Holland and another counrty (cant remember which one!!), a fair bit less than what the French offered but slightly more than what the Germans were giving. In addition, over here they are not entightled to work for at least 6 months where in many other countries they are, and what we offered educational wise was the same as what is on offer elsewhere.
I really dont buy the "soft touch" we give em loads argument. I do agree that we need a workable way of removing those that fail in their bid.

Saint Bert
3rd December 2007, 14:43
I know one thing, I would rather have a mirgrant worker, paying his way and putting some money back into the coffers than some of the lazy shiiiittte chavs we are bringing up nowadays.

Britain must be the only country in the world where getting up the duff or being on the dole is a career move!

mike
3rd December 2007, 16:28
I know one thing, I would rather have a mirgrant worker, paying his way and putting some money back into the coffers than some of the lazy shiiiittte chavs we are bringing up nowadays.

Britain must be the only country in the world where getting up the duff or being on the dole is a career move!

Britain today is very much a product of the 'no such thing as society' rhetoric spouted by Thatcher in the 80s. You ultimately reap what you sow. Mass unemployment was an alien concept to Britain prior to 1979 - they didn't put something in the water to make people become lazy. The part of the country that was doing ok, tolerated 3.5 million unemployed for large parts of the eighties.
It is no surprise then that the children and grandchildren of that generation of people who were on the scrapheap have learned to live off a welfare system that was supposed to be a safety net not a career option.
It is something that desperately needs tackling.

McClennan
5th December 2007, 22:02
Clarkson? lolol. We're shit at football because there's too many darkies living in England. Great Christian values there Jeremy lol

Saint Bert
7th December 2007, 10:18
Is this too little too late? For some?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7129187.stm

The Greatest
7th December 2007, 11:55
Is this too little too late? For some?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7129187.stm

It doesnt change a thing to be honest.

Saint Bert
7th December 2007, 12:00
It doesnt change a thing to be honest.

And why? Is it because it is too little? Is it because it is too late? Or is it both?

If none of the above do you have a more radical solution to the problem?

I am sure that even the most liberal of person would agree that imigration is something that needs to be tackled, but to what extreme?

The Greatest
7th December 2007, 12:18
And why? Is it because it is too little? Is it because it is too late? Or is it both??

Sorry...should have expanded on that!!! lol

I would go with the too little. If you look at the report, only 12000 people who were unskilled came here last year. Given that the total migrating here is ~480,000 - 500,000 then in real terms you have cut a very small percentage although on the plus side you have cut out the people that you definately dont want here.


If none of the above do you have a more radical solution to the problem? ??

Is the 'problem' as big as is being made out? As I've posted earlier, 500,000 come into this country but nearly 400,000 migrate out; the nett inflow is therefore not that big. Of the 500,000 people that come in you have already seen that only 12000 are unskilled and those claiming asylum account for ~20,000 - 30,000. Taking these away from the 500,000 leave you with ~458,000 people coming in that are either skilled, well educated or paying for an education over here.


I am sure that even the most liberal of person would agree that imigration is something that needs to be tackled, but to what extreme?

To an extent yes, bus as per my above comments and previous comments it isnt as bad as is made out. I think that the post by R P McMurphy was a good one regarding having to remove failed asylum seekers. I think preventing unskilled people from entering the country is also a good move but the overall change is negligable. Lots of skilled and educated people move here and contribute while a lot of British people migrate out. It is the same all over the world!!!

the_messiah_saint
7th December 2007, 21:57
[/QUOTE]To an extent yes, bus as per my above comments and previous comments it isnt as bad as is made out. I think that the post by R P McMurphy was a good one regarding having to remove failed asylum seekers. I think preventing unskilled people from entering the country is also a good move but the overall change is negligable. Lots of skilled and educated people move here and contribute while a lot of British people migrate out. It is the same all over the world!!![/QUOTE]

But surley most of the british people who migrate out of this country are in the later part of life, after spending most of it working and earning enough to do so!

The Greatest
7th December 2007, 22:23
But surley most of the british people who migrate out of this country are in the later part of life, after spending most of it working and earning enough to do so!

No they are not. There are plenty of people doing it in their early 30's. Its especially popular amongst people of this age because they have spet the last 10 years reaping the rewards of the property boom over here....cash in an •••• off

Also, what makes you think that the foreigners coming into this country have not worked and earned the right to do so? Are you suggesting that expert medics, engineers and scientists who come over do not deserve to be here. So our migrants are the valuable sort who benefit the country they are going to while those blackies and 'rag heads' that come over here are of no value and havent worked to get here?

alf wayliner
7th December 2007, 22:29
But surley most of the british people who migrate out of this country are in the later part of life, after spending most of it working and earning enough to do so!
If that's the case then it's even better for this country as they go to other countries to grow old, they then become a burden on that country's health services whilst the people coming in are younger people who will be generating working and contributing taxes.

However I think you'll find that emigration from this country isn't just older people looking for the sun in their twilight years but a good cross section of people and in particular skilled people who are seeking to maximise their earning potential whilst "enjoying" a change in lifestyle.

the_messiah_saint
7th December 2007, 22:32
No they are not. There are plenty of people doing it in their early 30's. Its especially popular amongst people of this age because they have spet the last 10 years reaping the rewards of the property boom over here....cash in an •••• off

Also, what makes you think that the foreigners coming into this country have not worked and earned the right to do so? Are you suggesting that expert medics, engineers and scientists who come over do not deserve to be here. So our migrants are the valuable sort who benefit the country they are going to while those blackies and 'rag heads' that come over here are of no value and havent worked to get here?

Nothing made me think thats what you wrote, most of the people i know in there early thirtys are far from being able to cash in a •••• of as you say!

The Greatest
7th December 2007, 22:39
most of the people i know in there early thirtys are far from being able to cash in a •••• of as you say!

Didnt say that they could, did I?