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Saint Bert
16th October 2007, 10:24
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.

OsborneSaint
16th October 2007, 10:34
I Agree with you 100%. I could not believe what i saw on saturday. I really didn't enjoy it at all. I think some of these people have to take a long hard look at themselves!!

I also hope Mr Mac doesn't take notice of these idiots that could of jepodised our future!!!!

Buddy
16th October 2007, 10:44
Its funny because I've been all glum about Saturday, but not because of the result.
we cannot blame anyone for losing the game, no refereeing decision cost us badly and there was no point of contention that we could say was the turning point - we just didn't play well enough to win.

What has upset me is as you say the way a lot of our fans have reacted to a single defeat.

Do these people not realise that every fan in the whole of Rugby League would swap with us right now. And those of us who remember the dark days of the 1980's certainly wouldn't want a return to what we used to suffer year on year.

Now is the time to show are support because thats what true fans do

tongey
16th October 2007, 10:49
Well said Al. Real fans all know what the chairman has done for the club, with out him there would be NO St.Helens RLFC. The bloke has stuck a load of his own money to get the club out of the Crap. He's got the club back at the top of the table and still people aren’t happy.

Good forbid if we ever went back to the 80's and early 90's when we used to win almost Feck all. What would most of our JUMP on the band wagon fans do then.

wellosgal
16th October 2007, 10:52
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.

Couldnt of put it better myself!

It was an absolute disgrace!

Buddy
16th October 2007, 10:54
Well said Al. Real fans all know what the chairman has done for the club, with out him there would be NO St.Helens RLFC. The bloke has stuck a load of his own money to get the club out of the Crap. He's got the club back at the top of the table and still people aren’t happy.

Good forbid if we ever went back to the 80's and early 90's when we used to win almost Feck all. What would most of our JUMP on the band wagon fans do then.

At the time they either supported widnes and wigan or sat in the seven stars moaning about how bad we were, and the only time they went near the ground was to visit keiths chippy

SAINTSAM
16th October 2007, 11:03
Alan. Probably your best and most important post mate!

Totally agree with everything you have said.... many of our fans have got to learn to lose graciously and maybe the defeat last saturday was a good thing for rugby league as a whole and highlighted some of the problems we have with certain elements of our fan base.

The problem I see is how do we prevent it happening again?

I find it disgusting that any St HELENS person fan or not could verbally abuse Eammon especially after saving our club from extinction, providing us with a squad that has achieved all the success in recent years and now giving us the opportunity to move into a new stadium.

Baz

gateaux
16th October 2007, 11:17
Very well said, I agree with every word.

I was disgusted by the behaviour I saw on Saturday night, and what upset me more was the number of children who saw that behaviour. What message does that send out to the children who have been brought along by friends and family to watch our family game?

Exiled Saint
16th October 2007, 11:23
FANTASTIC POST LANDLORD!!!!!!!!!!

very important post-i do wish some of our younger fans would leave the support of there football teams outside the ground because SOME of them bring the aggressive football attitude with them-but maybe thats just me being and an old fart:???:

gateaux
16th October 2007, 11:26
FANTASTIC POST LANDLORD!!!!!!!!!!

very important post-i do wish some of our younger fans would leave the support of there football teams outside the ground because SOME of them bring the aggressive football attitude with them-but maybe thats just me being and an old fart:???:
Not just younger fans either, a lot of those I saw causing trouble where more mature fans

Stockport Saint
16th October 2007, 11:40
This is probably the most sensible post I have ever read on this site!! There is nowt to add excoept tanks for putting it so well.

DD
16th October 2007, 11:42
The only good thing to come out of this weekend is the fact that it will kick the arse out of the complacency that has become rife around this club from the club itself, the players, to the fans.

The major negative is that this weekend (and perhaps the whole season) has shown a significant element of our support in a very bad light.

Whilst we can still be justifiably proud of what has been a great St. Helens side, there is little to be proud of in terms of the support and backing this club has got from it's fans.

Many years ago we always to used to rightfully shout about how great our fans were compared to Wigan. The boot is on the other foot now.

DD
16th October 2007, 11:43
Not just younger fans either, a lot of those I saw causing trouble where more mature fans

Most of them were from what I saw.

gateaux
16th October 2007, 11:48
Most of them were from what I saw.
were young or were old?

DD
16th October 2007, 11:51
were young or were old?

Sorry. I mean they were not of the young bracket.

Knight Shadow
16th October 2007, 11:59
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.


true words never more needed but on hear is the converted who are the dedcated few fans and not the glorey hunting charleys some times makes me sad to be a saints fan when i see that and i admire teams who have good week in week out crowds with top noch fans! were did we go wrong

DD
16th October 2007, 12:03
were did we go wrong

In all honesty, we won too much.

It's spoiled some of the fans.

They don't like the rugby. They don't like the atmosphere. They can't accept being beaten by the better side.

In truth, the happy family will never re-emerge until there are 5,000 of us watching an average side playing expansive rugby.

It's sad but I increasingly believe it to be true.

Bainsey
16th October 2007, 12:10
This post is along the lines of what I was thinking when all the mini fights and beer tossing started taking place around the stadium on Saturday Night.

Hardly anyone was getting behind the lads, but instead taking their frustrations out on the celebrating (and rightly so) Leeds fans dotted around the stadium.

Alot of Saints speccies have become far to complacent and losing the GF can only go towards helping break that mentality.

Well said Al.

Saint Bert
16th October 2007, 12:15
In all honesty, we won too much.

It's spoiled some of the fans.

They don't like the rugby. They don't like the atmosphere. They can't accept being beaten by the better side.

In truth, the happy family will never re-emerge until there are 5,000 of us watching an average side playing expansive rugby.

It's sad but I increasingly believe it to be true.

Unfortunately, there is a % in all support bases that are nuggets. The larger your support, the larger the nugget factor, sadly something we will need to deal with in the pursuit of a bigger attendance and cash flow.

Geoggy
16th October 2007, 12:53
whilst i agree with the sentiments of the post and the discussion, the post undercurrent feels to me like another "here's a blue print of what you need to be to be classed a saints fan in my eyes"

i left the ground early on saturday and i havent been to every single game this season.

according to this post and some of the others on here, i am not a saints fan.

bit patronising that.

Saint Bert
16th October 2007, 12:56
whilst i agree with the sentiments of the post and the discussion, the post undercurrent feels to me like another "here's a blue print of what you need to be to be classed a saints fan in my eyes"

i left the ground early on saturday and i havent been to every single game this season.

according to this post and some of the others on here, i am not a saints fan.

bit patronising that.

If you think it says that anywhere then all is lost! :confused:

ChemicalBrother
16th October 2007, 13:08
My line of thought at the end of the GF. I stayed to the end. I clapped both teams and enjoyed the fireworks etc. I shook the hand of the Leeds Fan sat next to me. I even got a text from a wire fan asking if "administration was ro follow" !. It wont do saints any harm to taste defeat. Great teams need a wake up call. Yes..it is hard as a player or a fan when you get beat in any final, but its history...old news. If any coach was honest enough the would love DA job and the sliverwaer at KR. We have so many positives yet we harp on about the multiple negatives. I love our game. Come on You SAINTS!!

Sausalito
16th October 2007, 13:32
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.

Just like to know, how you know that they are all part time fans??:???:

Another thing, it's a good job we have part time fans because Wembley or Old Trafford would look great with 7,000 Saints supporters at one end.:o

Can just imagine it,
"Here we are at Old Trafford for the GF, with 7,000 Saints fans packing the West end, and the East end overflowing with 15,000 Leeds fans,
These two sets of hardy fans are separated by 15,000 neutral spectators, and with the stadium nearly half full, what a sight for the 6,000,000 viewers"lol lol

Geoggy
16th October 2007, 13:39
If you think it says that anywhere then all is lost! :confused:

all is not lost.

and as i said i agree with your post.

maybe i am picking up the wrong vibes from the board since saturday, but I suppose its natural after losing.

in the long run it will do us good.

The Grant Family
16th October 2007, 13:49
Well said you have put it all into words it was just how we where elling but didnt know how to word it well done

Saint Bert
16th October 2007, 13:56
Just like to know, how you know that they are all part time fans??:???:


Well I will put this to you, I travel to every away game, I think i know the majority of people that do, if not in person by sight.

I am sure that the majority of those people know me, again if not in person by sight.

I did not see any regular away fans causing any trouble on Saturday, ( I stand corrected I saw 1 and he was ejected ) there are isolated incidents during a season, Wakefield being one of those this year, but 99.9% of the time, problems and complaints seem to occurr

1.Wigan Away
2. Semi Finals
3. Cup Finals

The common dinomator in all of those 3 is big game away fans! It is obvious if you only go to these games it DOES NOT make you a trouble maker, however it has to be said that our trouble makers and idiots do appear to only go to these games.

The thread is in danger of being side tracked on trouble makers, please read the original post in it's full context.

are you blind ref
16th October 2007, 13:58
Anyone who causes trouble is not a fan, real, part time or otherwise as fans go to support their team and watch the rugby.

Back to the inital post, well said!

Knight Shadow
16th October 2007, 14:06
In all honesty, we won too much.

It's spoiled some of the fans.

They don't like the rugby. They don't like the atmosphere. They can't accept being beaten by the better side.

In truth, the happy family will never re-emerge until there are 5,000 of us watching an average side playing expansive rugby.

It's sad but I increasingly believe it to be true.

true, i would watch saints play with there hart and losse rather than watch them showboat and win as it is what i love abought the game so are fans learn what thay have i mean no disrespect to the players or the team i feel the fans have let the team down not the other way round....i know we will play well next seasion but a medoker seasion were we rebuld and play with pashion in the game is what i hope for

Div
16th October 2007, 14:26
Agree Al as we discussed on Saturday evening in the post mortem.

Imagine a few years ago being disappointed because " We only won the Challenge Cup" !! Remember 1978,1977,1989 especially and 1991.

I was naturally disappointed we lost the game although it was not entirely unexpected. I think playing in every major game for 2 seasons back to back and internationals in between for most were bound to take toll.

After the game I wasnt disconsolate with the result as I have been in previous years. bearing the above in mind the best team by far won on the night and they are a good well supported club so no sour grapes from me.

I was still proud to be a Saint and clapped the lads off teh field in recognition of recent achievements. They had given their all it simply wasnt good enough on the day.

However, the off field shenanigans left a very bitter taste in the mouth.What happened to grace in defeat like at the semi final V Hull FC a couple of years ago ? That was the right way for the supporters of our club to behave. How can things change so quickly ?

Doc Green
16th October 2007, 14:27
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.Post , Thread and Most Reasonable statement of the year there Al. Spot on in every way , shape and form.

Div
16th October 2007, 14:32
Just like to know, how you know that they are all part time fans??:???:

Another thing, it's a good job we have part time fans because Wembley or Old Trafford would look great with 7,000 Saints supporters at one end.:o

Can just imagine it,
"Here we are at Old Trafford for the GF, with 7,000 Saints fans packing the West end, and the East end overflowing with 15,000 Leeds fans,
These two sets of hardy fans are separated by 15,000 neutral spectators, and with the stadium nearly half full, what a sight for the 6,000,000 viewers"lol lol



I can honestly say as long as the fans who get to as many games per season as they can ( be that 1 or all ) were there I would be happy.

Cedarman
16th October 2007, 18:56
...................see that bloke on the telly was right Burrows would be our downfall lol

SodIt the Hedgehog
16th October 2007, 19:14
I'm obviously a youngish fan, and from what I saw many of the idiots shouting abuse at Leeds fans for sitting in 'our' end were actually in their 40s and 50s. This "young fans" and "new fans" thing from some people is a bit too sweeping IMO - I think Bert was nearer the mark talking about these "two games a season and the rest spent in the pub" 'fans'.

What's really wound me up is that outside the ground you could hear loads and loads of fans of all clubs talking to stewards about how we didn't need splitting up, talking amongst theirselves about how we can all have a laugh with each other and how rugby league is one of the best sports for that kind of thing. I agreed, on the whole.

Going into the stadium and sitting down, it was a totally different world. "EY, WHAT'S THAT ****ING LEEDS FAN DOING IN OUR END, I'LL ****ING FLOOR HIM ME, YEAH YOU YOU ****" etc. Pathetic. Scum like this, from any team, need to grow up or preferably stop 'supporting' RL clubs. I felt ashamed, we're supposed to be better than that, aren't we?

fye
16th October 2007, 20:31
Top notch post Al

Gray77
16th October 2007, 20:35
The original post in this thread is probably the perfect post for how alot of us were feeling after the game and since. I'm not sure if at 30 I qualify as being an "old head", probably not. But I've been around supporting the club for a good while and Saturday (whilst not the worst things I've seen a RL game by any stretch) depressed me beyond belief. Society in our country is going down the shitter, and our town is the perfect example of this. If alot of these idiots cant behave themselves in town on a Friday night (after watching Saints down the pub no doubt) then its obvious they wouldnt be able to behave on Saturday. From my seat in the Stretty Upper it looked like most people causing trouble were around my age or older, so its not a case of "••••ed up kids" this time, unlike at KR when we seem to have developed a nasty little bunch who hang around the Eddington. St Helens is not a nice place at times, and there are alot of aggresive lads and men who live within it. Grand Final days are always going to appeal to them, its a 30 min train ride, a day in the big city and a good chance to act the tit. To change the atmosphere of Saturday you'd need to floor St Helens and start all over again. Its not going to happen. Idiots are going to be at OT every year, with no love of the club and no interest in how their attitudes and behaviour will reflect upon their town or Saints. Its depressing I know.

warringtonsaint
16th October 2007, 20:40
After some of the garbage that has been written on here since the weekend, from threads about homecomings to what makes a "real fan" it's about time someone came up with an intelligent post.

Well said Al, totally agree with what you say.

Hopefully once everyone has had their tuppence worth on this thread we can put the events of the weekend and the aftermath of it to bed - thanks for giving everyone the vehicle to have their final comments!

N.P.G.
16th October 2007, 20:47
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.
Spot on, like others have said, to loose in a game like that was not a bad thing at all, Leeds where awesome in every way and that performance deserved the SL title.
The only thing that goes round and round in my head was what was going on in the terrace before, during and prob after the game.
My son is still coming to terms with what was going on around him and i feel for him so much.
I have took some stick on this site for "2 game a season fans" in the past, i don't mean the ones who have supported the club for years and can only afford the finals etc etc, I'm sure you know the ones i mean, i work with many of them & I'm sure many of u do also.
It's this sort of support the club needs to get rid of but it will never happen I'm afraid.
Every club has them and when they meet it will always end up like it did over the weekend.

saint yick
16th October 2007, 21:15
As stated on a previous thread, I went 10 mins before the end due to constant trouble in front of me which I did not want to be associated with. I saw very little of the 2nd half so cannot comment on the game.
We wanted to stay and thank the players for another fantastic season, and it was with great sadness that we couldnt. I have no doubt next year will be yet another superb season and lets hope the fans get behind them like they use to because it has been lacking this season. So stop moaning everybody and thank god you dont support Wigan or Warrington, then you would have something to moan about!

Paul Cullen's Mantra
16th October 2007, 21:21
I think we have become victims of our own succees(if that is possible), as we have high expectations of the team. Of course we want to win everything, but sooner or later you get a reality check ie on Saturday. We need to focus on the posititves of last season, of which there were plenty, and use the last game as a reference point when we move into next season ie we don't want to be GF losers mext season....motivation in itself.

maghullsaint
17th October 2007, 01:34
Great post Saint Bert. Agree with every word

parrsaint
17th October 2007, 02:20
A fantastic post. Too many fans have been exposed to a lot of success and a defeat will not do us too much harm. We have enjoyed spectacular success since 1996, something which I will always be thankful for considering the many barren years that went before it when I first starting watching Saints. We have been very lucky and any other team in the League with the possible exception of the Bradford is still more than envious of our success since the start of SL. All teams have a dip in form during transition and as long as the transition is managed well we will be fine.

We have a winning attitude at this club now and this will spur us on in the future. We just need a bit of tweeking here and there.

Reacher
17th October 2007, 02:29
Nothing has been said on here that I dont agree with. The frustrating thing now is that this will result in even worse crowds next season. If we cant attract 10,000 fans after being the dominant team last year, we have no chance next year. Part time fans will just not be interested.

Say what we like about Wigan, but their support over the last 2 years has been fantastic. They have developed a siege mentality a sort of them and us and have stuck together. Their crowds have been great, whilst watching a poor inferior team. Our fans would not do that. The hard core will never change and will be there through thick and thin as we have been for many years.

Although the defeat will be a blessing in some respects in terms of a wake up call for some of the players, it will act as a detriment in that it will probably result in even less support next season. The team and DA dont deserve that.

MrsK
17th October 2007, 09:53
I am glad to have read this post as it makes me feel better. I too felt more upset about the behaviour of fans as a whole (it was not only Saints). I had always boasted that we knew how to behave and I feel let down as a Rugby League fan that the so called football trouble is creepinginto our game. My husband and I started a few seasons ago with the beating of Warrington 72-0 ( I think, never too good at remembering scores). I used to go to watch a game and not go to calculate where we were in the league and what our goal difference was. Perhaps we need to get to that stage again. Get a thrill of building a team of local lads to go into our stadium - lets look to the future.

Saintly Gilly
17th October 2007, 12:19
After the dust settleing, are any of us older heads that upset over Saturday, yes I am, and not because of the team.

This weekend I have witnessed part time Saints fans fighting, part time leeds fighting, these are not regular supporters but big time charlies (not all tanked up) as a rule. I have seen genuine Saints fans dragged into trouble because their friends have been attacked by Leeds supporters. I have seen ordinary shirt wearing Leeds fans be abused by drunken Saints fans, their crime being having bought a ticket months in advance for the final and just happening to be in what turned out to be the saints end.

I have heard stories of outr chairman being verbally abused because the team did not win it's 7th trophy out of 7.

I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season.

I have sen Saints fans singing liverpool songs at some of the stewards trying to get a reaction and Munich graffitti in a number of places.

I have heard people talking about the team being finished.

FFS

We are a team about to enter one of the most exciting times in it's long history. A time when some of the modern day greats will bring an end to a great career while at the same time allowing the possible new greats a platform to perform.

We have chairman that is pushing the club towards a new stadium and secured future ( although I bet he wonders now is it worth keeping the part time fans in if they behave like they did and after the stick he got ).

We have just spent a season were we have done the double, we have won the league, the world club championship and the challange cup, 3 out of 4 trophies available.

Thinking back now I am actually thinking it might do us good losing Saturday.

1. it may refocus some of our younger players who have not tasted defeat.
2. It may have re-focused some of our younger and newer suppoters who have not tasted defeat.
3. It make some of the knobhead once a year fans of ours no bother going to our next final.

The only worry I have after all is weighed up is that Mr Mac may think "is it worth the hassle", I hope not because some of our so called "fans" in my eyes are definately NOT.

Agree 100%.
What I will add, is that I felt really sorry for the players and coaching staff on sunday at the homecoming. We went as a family to say thanks for a great season. I could not believe my eyes at the turnout, and I don't think the players/coaching staff could either. We should have gone in numbers to the homecoming to say a big THANK YOU for another great season, not stay away just because we lost the GF. I certainly think we have the worst fans in SL.:mad:

Billinge Lump
17th October 2007, 12:43
Agree 100%.
What I will add, is that I felt really sorry for the players and coaching staff on sunday at the homecoming. We went as a family to say thanks for a great season. I could not believe my eyes at the turnout, and I don't think the players/coaching staff could either. We should have gone in numbers to the homecoming to say a big THANK YOU for another great season, not stay away just because we lost the GF. I certainly think we have the worst fans in SL.:mad:

There's a whole thread on the homecoming, where many disagree with you.

Londonsaints
17th October 2007, 12:51
Fully agree. We planned our trip home for Monday, so we could go to KR on Sunday for the homecoming and for the last time this year due to where we live. The turn out was very poor, I understand the GF result was a huge dissapointment but I think the players/DA/coaches/Eammon deserved better.

We have had a fantastic season, and personally thoroughly enjoyed our regular trips north again (home and away) to watch a great team who provide great entertainment and committmnet. One GF defeat is not going to have us reaching for the hanging ropes.

I have faith in DA/Eammon and the Playing Staff to be relishing next season
already.

K + J davies

Saint Bert
17th October 2007, 14:08
Agree 100%.
What I will add, is that I felt really sorry for the players and coaching staff on sunday at the homecoming. We went as a family to say thanks for a great season. I could not believe my eyes at the turnout, and I don't think the players/coaching staff could either. We should have gone in numbers to the homecoming to say a big THANK YOU for another great season, not stay away just because we lost the GF. I certainly think we have the worst fans in SL.:mad:

As Billinge has said there is a whole thread on this elsewhere, plenty of regular supporters had other things for Sunday, myself included, however I would not have gone even if we had won, I gave my thanks on Saturday and stayed until the last Saints player had left. The homecomings have become a re-run fo the previous, that is why they are now porrly attended and have little to do with us losing on Saturday. If you have an opinion on the hmecoming use that thread.

Gray77
17th October 2007, 14:11
Nothing has been said on here that I dont agree with. The frustrating thing now is that this will result in even worse crowds next season. If we cant attract 10,000 fans after being the dominant team last year, we have no chance next year. Part time fans will just not be interested.


We'll have to wait and see about that I reckon. I remember us getting 13k plus for home openers vs Widnes and Cas in 2005 and 06 after we hadnt won the league, and our average gate in those two years was better than this year when we were defending champions. Alot of the people who pick and choose their games ignore games coz of their apparent easiness. If things are a little tougher and home games become that bit more difficult then some people may be tempted to part with their cash at the thought of a more exciting game. Wigans crowds started to go down gradually as their success rolled on, as they are doing with us. I'm not saying if we were 8th in the table that we'd be getting 15k a game but I dont necessarily think they'd be worse than now, and probably a little bit better.

NortonSaint
17th October 2007, 14:13
I have been a Saints supporter since the 1956. Pre-Superleague era a Lancashire Cup Final win was appreciated in the days when we made the Challenge Cup Final once every five years. The Saints have had some great teams down the years but the success we have had in the SuperLeague era is unprecedented. In the modren era Saints fans have nothing to complain about. Disapointment in the result is understandable, physically or verbally abusing the people around you in the crowd is not.

Trev The Bear
17th October 2007, 14:28
I have been a Saints supporter since the 1956. Pre-Superleague era a Lancashire Cup Final win was appreciated in the days when we made the Challenge Cup Final once every five years. The Saints have had some great teams down the years but the success we have had in the SuperLeague era is unprecedented. In the modren era Saints fans have nothing to complain about. Disapointment in the result is understandable, physically or verbally abusing the people around you in the crowd is not.
Spot on sir!
Many people do not realise just how lucky we are to be watching a great side.

N.P.G.
17th October 2007, 14:35
There's a whole thread on the homecoming, where many disagree with you.
And the flip side is, Many Agree;)

DD
17th October 2007, 14:54
Nothing has been said on here that I dont agree with. The frustrating thing now is that this will result in even worse crowds next season. If we cant attract 10,000 fans after being the dominant team last year, we have no chance next year. Part time fans will just not be interested.


I think the main reason for the loss of supporters is the fact that they are not getting what they see as value for money.

Successful years or unsuccesful years our home win ratio doesn't change a lot. However, the games have become a little tedious. Not only do we expect to win, but we also used to turn up knowing that on some occasions we got right royally entertained by spectacular rugby. We never knew if we would turn up and watch an unbelievable exhibition of rugby league.

Now, we might score forty points but there are no great tries. There is little flowing rugby, there is the grinding out of the result.

Other clubs fans accept that as entertainment. Saints fans were always used to something different. I think it's been very difficult for our lot of supporters to accept (given that we know we will win) that we will do it in an uninspiring manner and that we will switch off when the job is done. We never go for the jugular like we used to.

Rightfully or wrongfully, there is more to life than winning games of Rugby League for some punters. They want to come home having enjoyed their evening.

I can certainly say that the last two years of home games have been the least inspiring, entertainment wise, in two decades. I can't remember many occasions when I have come away buzzing about a spectacular show of entertainment.

The Greatest
17th October 2007, 15:07
I blame the entertainers.com. Ever since they named that site we have been unentertaining

N.P.G.
17th October 2007, 15:09
lol lol lol lol lol

bobble
17th October 2007, 17:33
The only thing I'd disagree with here is the singling out of young people. The fights I saw, they were not particularly young.

Saint Bert
18th October 2007, 09:36
The only thing I'd disagree with here is the singling out of young people. The fights I saw, they were not particularly young.

Didn't think I did. :???:

I said it may re-focus some of our younger and newer supporters over how it feels to be winning and tasting defeat, never mentioned them causing trouble! If you are a newer or younger supporter you won't have tasted defeat, it has been a while since we lost a major final.

Why did I know it would be you to try and twist my words ;)

McClennan
20th October 2007, 11:41
I agree with several sentiments posted on this thread, particularly about the inference that you have to suffer some bad losses to be able to appreciate the good times and not overreact to the bad times.

The only concern that I really have is the club's support both in terms of volume, which just hasn't moved on and the behaviour and expectation of fans, which has been discussed at length in various threads.

I don't see any need for distress about on-the-field matters although I think that we will have to accept that with the increasing influence of the salary cap every game is going to be that much tighter. We know that the days of easy matches have been over for a couple of years now but I expect next year to produce more competitive home matches which is something we haven't witnessed in a long time. Will the fans come out and support those kind of games? I honestly don't know.

Scoop
21st October 2007, 10:09
Well as im now an overseas supporter, i'm not sure I can pass any comments on the current crowd behaviour. Although I did manage two games last year, which I suppose isn't bad living in Sydney. Plus I have been a fan since 1986, in the classic 112-0/Brett Clark Season.

But the I feel the loss in the Grand final will re-focus fans who have become complacent and arrogant given the climate of success that has grew and grew. Maybe these fans who have been so un-sporting in their behaviour this season, will look back in future years to see how lucky they have been to witness such a succesful team, particularly in a salary cap era, which means four/five teams at least are now currently on a level playing field. The final wins where coming that thick and fast that they where becoming a normal part of the season. How can we forget the feeling of our first up wins such as Super League title in 96, challenge Cup 96, and Grand Final in 1999, World Club Championship 2001. None of the victories since quite had the ecsatic feeling of those dates. We have indeed been lucky with the players that have graced Knowsley road in recent years. Plus also, I do not believe our youth policy as ever been so good. We would be lucky for 1 player in five years to become a regular first grade Rugby League player at Saints. But now we are seeing 2-3 players a season making the grade at Saints. Another feather in the cap for Mr Mcmanus. So maybe now, when, as in all salary cap era's the undoubted re-building and circulation of success, and the loss of the stalwarts of the likes of Long, Cunningham, Sculthorpe in the coming seasons, the new players can build their new culture within the club and we can relieve the success again as the new era begins of great Saints that will look up the the legends we have been watching over the last decade!

Tallahassee
21st October 2007, 20:06
One or two things Id like to say,has anyone mentioned(and if they have I apologise)the price of £17 being a bit steep for a Superleague team no matter how successful,not everyone is rolling in it at the moment.Price apart can we as fans complain about the type of fan who comes to watch Saints when the forum is full of Saints fans wanting more people to turn up and watch.:???:

Irish Saint
24th October 2007, 12:49
Well as im now an overseas supporter, i'm not sure I can pass any comments on the current crowd behaviour. Although I did manage two games last year, which I suppose isn't bad living in Sydney. Plus I have been a fan since 1986, in the classic 112-0/Brett Clark Season.

But the I feel the loss in the Grand final will re-focus fans who have become complacent and arrogant given the climate of success that has grew and grew. Maybe these fans who have been so un-sporting in their behaviour this season, will look back in future years to see how lucky they have been to witness such a succesful team, particularly in a salary cap era, which means four/five teams at least are now currently on a level playing field. The final wins where coming that thick and fast that they where becoming a normal part of the season. How can we forget the feeling of our first up wins such as Super League title in 96, challenge Cup 96, and Grand Final in 1999, World Club Championship 2001. None of the victories since quite had the ecsatic feeling of those dates. We have indeed been lucky with the players that have graced Knowsley road in recent years. Plus also, I do not believe our youth policy as ever been so good. We would be lucky for 1 player in five years to become a regular first grade Rugby League player at Saints. But now we are seeing 2-3 players a season making the grade at Saints. Another feather in the cap for Mr Mcmanus. So maybe now, when, as in all salary cap era's the undoubted re-building and circulation of success, and the loss of the stalwarts of the likes of Long, Cunningham, Sculthorpe in the coming seasons, the new players can build their new culture within the club and we can relieve the success again as the new era begins of great Saints that will look up the the legends we have been watching over the last decade!


Mr Cooper,

Are you really the best placed person to discuss the drunken antics of the part time fans of the mighty saints?

I seem to recall your behaviour and alcohol consumption at a couple of games at Telstra and Parramatta this season were less than exemplerary if I recall ;) ;) ;) (joke, by the way!)

But then again.....I was as bad

On a more serious note, and as a reaction to Al's perfectly written post.....I also left with 5 or 10 minutes to go...... Not because of our team, but after spending too much of my time being distracted by mindless knobs dragging our great clubs' name down to the gutter with fighting and arguing with anybody who appeared to disagree with them...

I did not fly half way round the world to see this.... My team lost, and I was upset....If it had not been for the idiots I would have said that my money was well spent, no matter the result, unfortunatly, I left wondering why the hell I bother. OK, I have spent many hours on planes returning back home to calm down, but it still knarks me that true Saints fans will end up getting a reputation that they do not deserve because some part time Henry's decide act likes idiots.

And a response to another post.......... I would rather see 7,000 true saints fans at any match, be it League, cup or a final, and all giving the team 100% than 15,000 fans who don't really care about the team.


Irish Saint

Scoop
25th October 2007, 13:04
G'day Derek,

Glad to hear from you. I thought you would have been on the new Airbus that landed at Sydney this evening :)

You expecting a visit to Sydney again soon?..No rugby on this time, so I shall have to take you on a pub crawl instead :)

Steward Saint
1st November 2007, 16:04
I agree the bulk of what you say apart from this part
"I have seen a lack of sporting behaviour to the point where there were less than an average home gate left to applaud the players off the field at the end of a very hard season."

Given that we have said hard a season i don't think it warrants the performance they had in the second half.
For all of theirs reputations they just did not seem arsed; I am no part time fan i've been watching Saints game in game out for a good 14 years, been to all but one final of any stature and stayed behind to the bitter end at every game but i have neer seen such a performance like that. I stayed till full time then left, i felt ripped off £21.
This is my opinion have a go at your will i dont really give a monkeys !!