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Anderson's Merry men
13th October 2007, 21:20
I would give my opinion on tonights result but it could involve some offensive language.

This could be one of our worst major final result for a long time

Dicko
13th October 2007, 21:24
We turned up at the Wedding without the Bride.

Anderson's Merry men
13th October 2007, 21:29
From the moment Long missed the penalty that was it

southportsaint
13th October 2007, 21:46
leeds wanted it we did'nt simple,well done leeds you deserved it.

Saint Ryan
13th October 2007, 21:48
When Long missed the penalty you could just sense what happened would happen. Saints didn't look as though they were even going to win. The first half they played average, the only thing that kept them in the game was their defence. The second half the defence just went to pieces as well as the game plan. Well done to Leeds they played brilliantly.

Ikie-Mo
13th October 2007, 21:53
Well the better team won, and won easily.

For whatever reason Saints have struggled this year against the Rhino's, especially in the second half. Maybe they just match up stronger against us and its as simple as that. 3 and half games this year would suggest that to be the case.

I thought the most telling difference was pace. I also thought Gidley stifles the bit of pace we have in the team....Gardener.

Saints are not going to win everything, every year and we have been on an exceptional run of major victories. If we are not bringing any new players in next year, as reported we are not going to be favourites to win much.

Having calmed down now a bit, and with the result a fact I am glad Tony Smith signed off club management with a GF win. He has always struck me as a decent bloke.....just a shame it came against the Saints.

RedVee Admin
13th October 2007, 22:22
Leeds have been a better team all year. Simple as.

Hate to say it but cannot deny it.

gazwxm
13th October 2007, 22:31
Leeds have been a better team all year. Simple as.

Hate to say it but cannot deny it.

Correct, man for man we simply couldn't do much against them this season.
We turned up rearing to go and I thought we were slightly better than rhinos in the first half. However, come second half we didnt look interested and Leeds were brilliant in all fairness. People talk about Senior being past his best but he murdered Gidley tonight. Cunningham was quiet and Long was bizarre. When your key players don't perform it's difficult to win a game...especially against Leeds Rhinos.

Saint Jasper
13th October 2007, 23:15
Correct, man for man we simply couldn't do much against them this season.
We turned up rearing to go and I thought we were slightly better than rhinos in the first half. However, come second half we didnt look interested and Leeds were brilliant in all fairness. People talk about Senior being past his best but he murdered Gidley tonight. Cunningham was quiet and Long was bizarre. When your key players don't perform it's difficult to win a game...especially against Leeds Rhinos.

couldn't have put it better myself.

I thought after the first half we were still in with a shout and it could go either way. We weren't playing brilliantly but neither were they and we'd each had our moments. shortly into the 2nd half they'd scored two tries and we could've stopped the game then. No way we would come back. :(
I was very apprehensive about Long playing - even more so after the penalty miss - but some of his field kicks were OK and the break for the try was great. Shame that was it! Some serious sorting out to do where he's concerned over the winter. Longy wasn't the reason we lost but he could've been inspiring and we needed some of that.

Brimah Kebbie
14th October 2007, 00:17
I agree Long could have been inspiring but he's not had much game time of late so was to be expected he'd not be 100%. It's the likes of the other playmakers in the team who disappeared tonight that was more of a problem. Pryce and Wilkin were very quiet and offered virtually nothing, as was to some lesser extent Roby and Cunningham.

All in all a bad night all round and one game too many after a really tough season. With luck this will spur the management to recruit a bit of fresh blood and hopefully a bit of pace in time for next season. I think if we'd have won they have used the old phrase "if it ain't broke don't fix it" when I think most of us would agree that we do need some fresh players. As good as we've been this year we've not been as strong as the year before, which I know was always going to be hard to do.

Hats off to all the players for a truly wonderful season and unfortunately we just can't win everything all the time. Many thanks for some great memories too!

rammsteinbloke
14th October 2007, 00:27
I've always said that we don't lose the big games, we always seem to turn up and put our foot on the gas - but that was probably our worst performance in a major match since our defeat to Hull in the CC semi a few years back.

Disgusting.

sale_mike
14th October 2007, 01:06
We lost. That's what happened, simple as. Take defeat on the chin, not like the idiots in the crowd referred to in other threads who turn up once in a blue moon and spit their dummy. These are the people who can't remember the days of Saints winning diddly squat.

The players will be hurting and I hope they hurt badly. If they do, they will come back next year wanting the title badly. The semi-final defeat in the cup to Hull in 2005 hurt badly and there was a decent rebound from that game.

Give the players some credit and stick by them.

DeKay
14th October 2007, 09:16
I would go further than those who say we lost when Long missed that kick, and say that we lost when Long decided to go for goal in the first place.

There was no way that we where going to scrape a win so close that a 2nd minute penalty would be the difference, the decision not to bang it into touch and keep up the great pressure we had been putting Leeds under was a bad one. I firmly believe that we would have broken them on the following set of tackles.

The "girls rugby" mentality of taking every penalty at goal only works if you've got a reliably competent goal kicker, which last night showed we are desperately lacking.

Blobbynator
14th October 2007, 10:27
Well the better team won, and won easily.

For whatever reason Saints have struggled this year against the Rhino's

Simple for me - pace. They've got a big mobile pack to match us up front, but their backline is so quick that any break they make is usually taken advantage of.

daves
14th October 2007, 10:42
Leeds have been a better team all year. Simple as.

Hate to say it but cannot deny it.

Simple as that,really.The best team are Champions.

VcarriggV
14th October 2007, 10:55
its safe to say the best team on the day won. i think saints have had a dip in form recently, which has come at the worse possible time. i also dont think we have played brilliant all season, at least not by the standards of last season [i know that was always going to be very hard to equal]

the two tries and the drop goal in back-to-back set really killed us. we need to get hold of the ball more, mistakes lead to leeds scoring and having more sets of 6. you cant score if you dont have the ball

Paul Cullen's Mantra
14th October 2007, 11:11
Leeds deserved to win, simple as. They were determined and more creative than we were. I feel we need two address to key roles, that of scrum half, and that of KC at hooker. I know KC has been a great servant to our club, but I think we need to promote JR, to a prominent role. This issue was cemented for me when KC tried to throw a dummy, and go between to Leeds players=no pace to do so. In this pivotal role we need dynsamism, pace and aggression, all attributes shown by JR.
As for Long, well I think he has put the final nail in his coffin..

Blobbynator
14th October 2007, 11:30
As for Long, well I think he has put the final nail in his coffin..

Harsh IMO. He was about the only who looked like making a break or creating something for us last night.

SodIt the Hedgehog
14th October 2007, 11:35
Simple for me - pace. They've got a big mobile pack to match us up front, but their backline is so quick that any break they make is usually taken advantage of.

I agree. I think Lyon gave us more pace in the backline but Gidley's a totally different kind of player (is "glacial" appropriate?) and I think we've been less able to strike this season and take opportunities from gaps in defences. Leeds, and Wigan to a lesser extent, have been a lot more effective when a break presents itself.

Blobbynator
14th October 2007, 12:02
I agree. I think Lyon gave us more pace in the backline but Gidley's a totally different kind of player (is "glacial" appropriate?) and I think we've been less able to strike this season and take opportunities from gaps in defences. Leeds, and Wigan to a lesser extent, have been a lot more effective when a break presents itself.

We had a great blend last year with Talau/Meli (Power) and Gardner/Lyon (pace). Gidley is a good, solid player but he doesn't have that x factor that Lyon does, or the raw pace. Just like Long's break for Roby's try, to break Leeds down we needed moments of magic and unfortunately none of our backline were able to do it.

Billy Bunter
14th October 2007, 14:39
I would go further than those who say we lost when Long missed that kick, and say that we lost when Long decided to go for goal in the first place.

There was no way that we where going to scrape a win so close that a 2nd minute penalty would be the difference, the decision not to bang it into touch and keep up the great pressure we had been putting Leeds under was a bad one. I firmly believe that we would have broken them on the following set of tackles.

The "girls rugby" mentality of taking every penalty at goal only works if you've got a reliably competent goal kicker, which last night showed we are desperately lacking.

Much like we didn't scrape a 10-8 victory against the same side 2 weeks ago due to a winning penalty goal?

Doc Green
14th October 2007, 15:41
Leeds outplayed us simple as. They were stronger and faster. The penalty Long missed seemed to boast them and stifle us. Pryce for me seemed to have a subdued 20minute period in the first half after taking a big hit going into a tackle. Gidley never seemed to pass to Ade etc etc.It doesn't matter what the excuse is.. at the end of Leeds beat us and deservedly so.

Legolas
14th October 2007, 15:57
couldn't have put it better myself.

I thought after the first half we were still in with a shout and it could go either way. We weren't playing brilliantly but neither were they and we'd each had our moments. shortly into the 2nd half they'd scored two tries and we could've stopped the game then. No way we would come back. :(
I was very apprehensive about Long playing - even more so after the penalty miss - but some of his field kicks were OK and the break for the try was great. Shame that was it! Some serious sorting out to do where he's concerned over the winter. Longy wasn't the reason we lost but he could've been inspiring and we needed some of that.

I agree, Long wasn't the reason we lost, but he has awful lot to answer for. He missed the penalty which was an "easy" kick, his game kicking was crap; his deft kicking behind the line worked once, he found very little yardage on penalties AND he argued with his own teammates on the pitch, his passing was atrocious and he needs a good kick in the seat of the pants. He needs to step aside and let Matty Smith take over. I have praised Long over the years but this season he has lost it and should lose his place in the side.

SH is such a vital position that he simply has to play well or it makes it so much harder for everyone else. Pryce and Wilkin couldn't really playmake because Leeds knew Long wasn't up to it and left him alone concentrating on the others who could've made a difference.

Woodspeckie
14th October 2007, 16:35
For me Gidley needs to be replaced, what impact has he had? to me none, why try to kick the ball instead of a pass to Gardener.

andyathers
14th October 2007, 16:45
1. looking at the program on the way home,we had 6 players over 30, leeds had 1 and he is a winger.

2. We havent scored in the second half against leeds for 3 games( needs addressing).

3. man of steel on the bench.

4. Matty smith dropped in favour of long, the club doesnt owe long nothing.He never starts well after an injury so should he have played.

5. Wellens didnt have a good game,was he hurt.

6. Maurie out of sorts, should he have played.( clough young and fit not picked).

7. Mike Bennet ,workhorse ?? Does he win us games.

8.Flannery, ordinary, nothing special.Another cheap overseas option.

9. Talau, passed it in my opinion.

10. Wingers are not world class.

11.Fans in my opinion didnt get behind the players.

I will leave it there

Woodspeckie
14th October 2007, 16:48
Clough and Smith would have made a differenceto the play, they are young and fit and can run forever. Meli not good enough either he doesn't bend his back.

Blobbynator
14th October 2007, 16:50
Clough and Smith would have made a differenceto the play, they are young and fit and can run forever.

I doubt they would. The pack as a unit got dominated by Leeds and that led to gaps outwide. This wasn't a case of individuals costing us the match, it was a simple case of the whole team not playing to their very best.

saintcoppull
14th October 2007, 17:47
Talking of Long, giving him another contract was a strange descision, Long tell's Anderson i'm not doing the goal kicking,he should of been dropped not given another contract.

Paul Cullen's Mantra
14th October 2007, 17:52
Talking of Long, giving him another contract was a strange descision, Long tell's Anderson i'm not doing the goal kicking,he should of been dropped not given another contract.


I agree...If this is the case then we need players who want to play for the club and have respect for the coach, not disruptive influences. I think Long has passed the stage now where he believes he is indispenseable. He isn't....bring on Matty Smith!!!

banburysaint
14th October 2007, 19:16
Long is a funny sort of player great one week and not so hot the next. However in the last few years the great games have been declining, i suppose that because pace declines with age and injuries that he has suffered. It is interesting that so many people will 'publicly' suggest that he is past his best. Not wanting to kick goals is disappointing as that is what he was bought for in 97, Scully only got the job because of Costin's tackle, and Lyon did because Scully and Long were injured. If he has an injury that hurts when he kicks then it is understandable (like Ropati), if not then its more worrying. I was suprised that Long got a two year deal but i think it is because we couldnt cope with the loss of Scully, Long and Cunningham, but saying this he made the only break of last night for us!

Who we sign to replace Talau and Gidley will be key, they need to be quick strong, kicking a goal would be an advantage too!

AnonymousSaint
15th October 2007, 10:13
In my opinion, Long hasn't had a great game in years, in my opinion his last great game was when he won the Lance Todd trophy against Huddersfield. It was a mistake not selecting Matty Smith and Clough.

We need at least one new winger, Meli is just bone Idol, we need Jamie Lyon back and a couple of massive forwards, somebody along the lines of Paul Anderson.

The only positions we seem to be able to consistently perfrom, are full-back, in my opinion the best player on the planet, and hooker, in my opinion the next best player on the planet.

Anyway we got beat because Leeds simply they wanted it more .. that can be seen in the celebrations for the tries, Leeds player were going crazy when they scored whereas when Saints scored it was just a pat on the back and a shake of the hand.

DeKay
15th October 2007, 10:53
Much like we didn't scrape a 10-8 victory against the same side 2 weeks ago due to a winning penalty goal?

That's precisely why I think the decision was a poor one.
We showed Leeds within the first 3 minutes that we where only expecting to scrape through again, if we where going to win at all. Psychologically that put Leeds at a massive advantage, as they knew then that once they got a couple of scores ahead, our heads would drop and they'd be able to get out of sight, which is precisely what happened early in the second half.

If we had gone for the six points, instead of the two, the message it would have sent out would have been completely different; it would have shown that we had belief in ourselves and in our ability to score tries.

I do believe that if Long had got the kick, then we may have scraped through, but failing to kick a straightforward goal has a much bigger negative impact on a team than not getting a try.

Reacher
15th October 2007, 13:14
Leeds pack was bigger, faster and more mobile than our starting 6. Peacock was immense, and backed up well by the others. Ellis and Sinfield are class players also. I feel that we now lack real pace. I would not be confident of us making a break in our own 20 and one player going the length of the field.

You only have to look at Lyons tries last season, when he could make a break and round the full back before scoring like Donald did to Wello. I dont think any of our players could do that, maybe Gardner in full flight. I would love us to sign a real speedster. We have some talented youngsters coming through but none of real pace.

saintgeorge
15th October 2007, 14:25
All this talk about new signings is totally futile. Chairman has publically said no new signings for next season - we have to live with what we have got - an ageing team plus the blooding of Tyrer, Eastmond, Smith, Moore etc. The GF was, sadly, a turning point. We`ll just have to hope that the big motivating factor for next season is to win trophies for a coach and three senior players in their last ever season at Saints (Anderson, Cunningham, Long and Sculthorpe)