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View Full Version : We Need Sean Long For The Gf



SAINTSGUS
4th October 2007, 11:16
Matty played brilliantly on Friday and just won't let us down, but we need a fit and keen SL

Does one exist and what's the chance of him playing and playing well??

Paul Cullen's Mantra
4th October 2007, 11:20
I think there is more chance of finding Lord Lucan alive and well in Finger Post

SaintsDavid
4th October 2007, 11:31
Matty played brilliantly on Friday and just won't let us down, but we need a fit and keen SL

Does one exist and what's the chance of him playing and playing well??

Lets put it this way, we haven't lost many finals with Longy playing so i would have to agree.

saint hooper
4th October 2007, 13:15
[QUOTE=SAINTSGUS]Matty played brilliantly on Friday and just won't let us down, but we need a fit and keen SL

I agree Longy for the GF!

OsborneSaint
4th October 2007, 13:32
I'd be happier with matty smith really, Longy doesn't look interested anymore.

Greengrass
4th October 2007, 13:39
If it came down to goal kicking who would do the best job.

Legolas
4th October 2007, 13:53
Sean Long just doesn't look like his heart is in it any longer. I think it would be very unfair if Smith misses out just because Long can play. We should be picking on form, not reputation.

Blobbynator
4th October 2007, 13:55
You pick your best available players for me. This 'his heart is not in it' line is absolute rubbish IMO. He's been injured and that's not the fault of Sean Long. The only questionable thing for me was earlier in the year when he said he didn't want to kick. Although, he has kicked since e.g. Challenge Cup Final.

If Long is fit, he plays. You don't leave a big game, experienced player out of the 17.

Legolas
4th October 2007, 14:11
You pick your best available players for me. This 'his heart is not in it' line is absolute rubbish IMO. He's been injured and that's not the fault of Sean Long. The only questionable thing for me was earlier in the year when he said he didn't want to kick. Although, he has kicked since e.g. Challenge Cup Final.

If Long is fit, he plays. You don't leave a big game, experienced player out of the 17.

But when he has been fit, his performances have been abject to say the least. There comes a point when you just can't take it anymore and he hasn't been the same since last years tri nations. If Long, or Wello or anyone for that matter wants to play, they have to EARN that right, not just expect it. The fact that his is experienced is neither here nor there, you pick your best plays who are playing their best. MAtty Smith has answered every question put to him. This if Long is fit he plays gives absolutely no encouragement to our younger players. If Long is fit and deserves it he plays, not just if long is fit, thats not enough.

Blobbynator
4th October 2007, 14:39
But when he has been fit, his performances have been abject to say the least.

I honestly don't think he's been that bad. He had a bad game against Wire in the Cup, but overall I think he's done OK without hitting his brilliant best. Injuries have meant a frustrating, stop-start season.


There comes a point when you just can't take it anymore and he hasn't been the same since last years tri nations.

I don't think he's been fully fit for most of the year so we've only seen glimpses of his best form e.g. Semi Final and Final of the Cup. I don't think he's lacked commitment or effort when he's played.


If Long, or Wello or anyone for that matter wants to play, they have to EARN that right, not just expect it.

The service the likes of Wello, KC, Scully, Long etc have given us over the years deserves an amount of loyalty IMO. I think each of those have earned the right to play in this side and it's very rare that they let us down, certainly when it matters. Smith's played a handful of games and has done OK without setting the world alight. His time will come if he keeps working hard on his game.


The fact that his is experienced is neither here nor there

I think you under-estimate just how crucial experience is. You only need to look at Scully's performance in the WCC for evidence of that. Big game players rise to the occassion.


Matty Smith has answered every question put to him.

He's done well, I agree. Not outstanding, not poor, but he's done a reasonable job. The most important question for me though is this - Has he displaced Long? It's an emphatic no for me at this stage.


This if Long is fit he plays gives absolutely no encouragement to our younger players.

Do you seriously think Matty Smith believes that he is above Sean Long in the pecking order? He knows the score, he knows he's inexperienced (with about a dozen first team games to his belt) and has to work on his game to get his shot.


If Long is fit and deserves it he plays, not just if long is fit, thats not enough.

You don't think Long deserves to play? Has he massively let us down? For me, you pick your best available players and I have no doubt that Long will play a massive part in the Grand Final if fit.

Legolas
4th October 2007, 15:13
I honestly don't think he's been that bad. He had a bad game against Wire in the Cup, but overall I think he's done OK without hitting his brilliant best. Injuries have meant a frustrating, stop-start season.



I don't think he's been fully fit for most of the year so we've only seen glimpses of his best form e.g. Semi Final and Final of the Cup. I don't think he's lacked commitment or effort when he's played.

The only game I can honestly say he played anywhere near his best is the WCC, other than that, he's been no better than any other seven in the league this season.



The service the likes of Wello, KC, Scully, Long etc have given us over the years deserves an amount of loyalty IMO. I think each of those have earned the right to play in this side and it's very rare that they let us down, certainly when it matters. Smith's played a handful of games and has done OK without setting the world alight. His time will come if he keeps working hard on his game.

I would play Wello and KC half fit with one leg and one eye because they always give their all and play well. Long on the other hand, look at the CC, he played bloomin awful in that game gettin kicks charged down, straight down peoples throats and not looking for space. Scrum Halves need to be on their game for the rest of the team to tick, Long has rarely given us that this season

I think you under-estimate just how crucial experience is. You only need to look at Scully's performance in the WCC for evidence of that. Big game players rise to the occassion.

I don't underestimate experience, what I do say is that because Long's played in x number of finals and won y amount of trophies and he's fit to play, he should be an automatic selection

He's done well, I agree. Not outstanding, not poor, but he's done a reasonable job. The most important question for me though is this - Has he displaced Long? It's an emphatic no for me at this stage.

I'm not suggesting Smith has displaced Long, just that there is competition for places which is a good thing. Long cannot just say I am the registered 7, I am Sean Long and I should play because I'm fit

Do you seriously think Matty Smith believes that he is above Sean Long in the pecking order? He knows the score, he knows he's inexperienced (with about a dozen first team games to his belt) and has to work on his game to get his shot.

I'm not suggesting Matty thinks he's above Longy, what I do suggest is that he has very little to play for if he knows he can play a great game, make no errors, absolutely perfect, but miss out because Long happens to be fit, regardless of form or effort. Competition for places is good for the side but it has to be REAL competition

You don't think Long deserves to play? Has he massively let us down? For me, you pick your best available players and I have no doubt that Long will play a massive part in the Grand Final if fit.

I don't think Sean deserves to play, no, anymore than Smith deserves it. What I'm saying is that Long should not play just because he is Long. However, don't get me wrong, if he does he will get my full vocal support and a massive pat on the back when he wins it for us. All I am saying is that SH is such a vital position, he really needs to step up to the mark.

What I'm saying is this. If Matty Smith was a winger and Ade Gardner a doubt ala Long, people would be screaming for Matty to play purely on form. Long appears to be absolved of any such criticism/doubt.

If Long is fit and deserves his play, play him. If he's anywhere short or doesn't look interested, don't. He's not hit his brilliant best this season and maybe the GF is the big game for the big game player, but we can't just say go on lad, yer fit, go and play and oh sorry matty but you know the score.

We really need to look at whats best for the team. Matty is more than capable of replacing Long and he shouldn't be displaced unfairly.

pricey73
4th October 2007, 15:34
not long's greatest fan but when he's on song were a better team and he always plays well in the big matches

SaintsDavid
4th October 2007, 16:15
I honestly don't think he's been that bad. He had a bad game against Wire in the Cup, but overall I think he's done OK without hitting his brilliant best. Injuries have meant a frustrating, stop-start season.



I don't think he's been fully fit for most of the year so we've only seen glimpses of his best form e.g. Semi Final and Final of the Cup. I don't think he's lacked commitment or effort when he's played.



The service the likes of Wello, KC, Scully, Long etc have given us over the years deserves an amount of loyalty IMO. I think each of those have earned the right to play in this side and it's very rare that they let us down, certainly when it matters. Smith's played a handful of games and has done OK without setting the world alight. His time will come if he keeps working hard on his game.



I think you under-estimate just how crucial experience is. You only need to look at Scully's performance in the WCC for evidence of that. Big game players rise to the occassion.



He's done well, I agree. Not outstanding, not poor, but he's done a reasonable job. The most important question for me though is this - Has he displaced Long? It's an emphatic no for me at this stage.



Do you seriously think Matty Smith believes that he is above Sean Long in the pecking order? He knows the score, he knows he's inexperienced (with about a dozen first team games to his belt) and has to work on his game to get his shot.



You don't think Long deserves to play? Has he massively let us down? For me, you pick your best available players and I have no doubt that Long will play a massive part in the Grand Final if fit.


Wow

OsborneSaint
4th October 2007, 16:19
I don't think Sean deserves to play, no, anymore than Smith deserves it. What I'm saying is that Long should not play just because he is Long. However, don't get me wrong, if he does he will get my full vocal support and a massive pat on the back when he wins it for us. All I am saying is that SH is such a vital position, he really needs to step up to the mark.

What I'm saying is this. If Matty Smith was a winger and Ade Gardner a doubt ala Long, people would be screaming for Matty to play purely on form. Long appears to be absolved of any such criticism/doubt.

If Long is fit and deserves his play, play him. If he's anywhere short or doesn't look interested, don't. He's not hit his brilliant best this season and maybe the GF is the big game for the big game player, but we can't just say go on lad, yer fit, go and play and oh sorry matty but you know the score.

We really need to look at whats best for the team. Matty is more than capable of replacing Long and he shouldn't be displaced unfairly.


Here Here!!!

Chris Saint
4th October 2007, 16:44
I don't think Sean deserves to play, no, anymore than Smith deserves it. What I'm saying is that Long should not play just because he is Long. However, don't get me wrong, if he does he will get my full vocal support and a massive pat on the back when he wins it for us. All I am saying is that SH is such a vital position, he really needs to step up to the mark.

What I'm saying is this. If Matty Smith was a winger and Ade Gardner a doubt ala Long, people would be screaming for Matty to play purely on form. Long appears to be absolved of any such criticism/doubt.

If Long is fit and deserves his play, play him. If he's anywhere short or doesn't look interested, don't. He's not hit his brilliant best this season and maybe the GF is the big game for the big game player, but we can't just say go on lad, yer fit, go and play and oh sorry matty but you know the score.

We really need to look at whats best for the team. Matty is more than capable of replacing Long and he shouldn't be displaced unfairly.

I know what you are trying to say but your point is nullified totally by comparing Long to Gardner - would anyone say the Gardner has had the same impact on the team and been highly influential in winning many games including several finals for us over 10 years??

Of course not he's a winger that has come in for as much criticism as he has praise over the 4 or 5 years he's been here

What would you be saying if we played Smith and the poor lad gets overawed by the occaision and we get caned by Burrow / Leuluai?

Long's performances haven't been his greatest this year but in the two big games this year he played a blinder in the Challenge Cup Semi and we won the cup in the other - a game where no-one played particularly well

I agree first team places shouldn't be guaranteed just because of a name - but Long isn't just a name - Smith's time will come

ChemicalBrother
4th October 2007, 17:12
Yep! Long isnt JUSTa name He's a NUMBER ! the majestic No 7- so shut up whinging! - I cant believe that with one week to go to the GF we can not think of not playing our strongest 13!- The young lads have been magnificant, but IMO we have not found Longy's as of yet. If Scully's fit play him!
Sorry to rant but why do people think a players heart is not in it? This is not football!

Legolas
4th October 2007, 17:37
Yep! Long isnt JUSTa name He's a NUMBER ! the majestic No 7- so shut up whinging! - I cant believe that with one week to go to the GF we can not think of not playing our strongest 13!- The young lads have been magnificant, but IMO we have not found Longy's as of yet. If Scully's fit play him!
Sorry to rant but why do people think a players heart is not in it? This is not football!

How responsible :rolleyes:

You can compare any player to any other in the team. I've already said IF Long is fit and IF he looks like he's up for it and can do a job, PLAY HIM. But we cannot dislodge a player just because Long is fit, and the same goes for any other position.

Just because Long is fit doesn't make him our best player/strongest team. The strongest team is that which is most likely to do the job, not the team that reads a pretty 1 to 13 with all the superstar names that is our idealistic first choice 13 who should be able to do the job, the GF comes at the end of the season and people will be tired, carrying knocks. The GF should get players up for it, but sometimes you have to make hard choices in life.

Long is a great player, when HE wants to be and he doesn't want to be as often as he should. I will support whoever plays. But consider this. If Long plays and is totally abject, plays bloomin awful, will he get the same maligning others will get?? Methinks not.

Each is entitled to his opinion, I just don't want the team picking on the basis of names and numbers. I want the team that is most likely to beat whoever we play and lift that trophy.

For the record, I've no problem with Long playing and wil be delighted if he does. Equally I'll be delighted if Smith plays. Just don't play someone because of who they are and what they have acheived.

are you blind ref
4th October 2007, 17:39
I'm sure this could go on and on (as have many previous similar threads but you know what - at the end of the day DA will decide and he's done OK so far.

doghead
4th October 2007, 18:17
Got told last week that the club are concerned over the long term fitness of Longy.

southernsaint7
4th October 2007, 18:26
Got told last week that the club are concerned over the long term fitness of Longy.

not surprising really, hes missed a lot of games this year

Gerry Mander
4th October 2007, 21:12
I don't think Sean deserves to play.....etc

No need to quote the full post.

Agree with the post. Picking on form rather than reputation is a must.
When favouritism / reputation creeps in it will all ultimately end in tears.
Long's form has been a season long concern rather than a brief blip.

Without opening the Scully debate, the big issue I have is around attitude and squad morale - cherrypicking games and the spin over one false recovery
after another.

Long has not done this and this is to his credit but there is a key decision
over the starting '7' that is bigger than which scrum half actually plays in
one big game. It can set a tone for the squad for the following season.

Respect Blobby's analysis if not entirely agree with it with some well reasoned
points.

Blobbynator
4th October 2007, 21:23
Long's form has been a season long concern rather than a brief blip.

I'd be more concerned about Long if he hadn't performed well in some of the big games. Long was very good in the WCC, CC Semi and CC Final. That convinces me that he's still commited to the cause and that he still has the ability.

His injuries are more the concern for me. He is becoming the new Sculthorpe in a way and that can't lead to any consistency in performance.

Steward Saint
4th October 2007, 22:20
Which ever way we look at this, with Longy's success rate its hard to deny him and no matter how good Matty Smith is he still needs alot more experience before is grand final worthy. The Grand Final is something that is not to be taken lightly or easily.

ChippingSodburySaint
4th October 2007, 23:44
If Long is anywhere near fit he will be playing and rightly so. He is a potential match winner, a fantastic player and a man for the big occasion. If his name is not on the team sheet come Saturday week it would be a huge psychological boost for the opposition.

Sausalito
5th October 2007, 01:53
If Long is anywhere near fit he will be playing and rightly so. He is a potential match winner, a fantastic player and a man for the big occasion. If his name is not on the team sheet come Saturday week it would be a huge psychological boost for the opposition.

So you would play someone who isn't fit just cos it's a final, makes no sense to me.:???: What if he breaks down after 15mins :o :o

bazzo
5th October 2007, 09:37
young Smith as shown all the necessary skills and composure to handle the GF.
I'm sorry to say that Longy has not played well in most games this year except the big games which says to me that hes only up for the glory matches. i remember when Murphy dropped a winning combination team that had won us through to the final and brought back fatty vortin and O Conner to play, dropping the less well known men. We played the goons that day and they rightly stuffed us ! So keep Matty in and let Long look for pastures new.

Gerry Mander
6th October 2007, 10:28
Hinted on C+W that Long has been involved in some
non playing related matter.

C+W troll or any substance ?

Reacher
6th October 2007, 11:31
Dont know why this is in contention. DA has said in his column in the Star that if Long is fit, he will play. End of. Says he owes him and the other big name players for their efforts over the years.