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fishy3005
2nd February 2012, 20:48
im just wondering peoples opinions on the shuffling of the side. royce is talking about moving hoihai to 9 on occassion and fullback also, then bringing (i would expect) gaskell to 6. personally i would like us to set our stall out from the off and stick with it.
i can understand the arguement for versatility, but if we are to be a contender come play offs i think it is vital that we have a solid, consistent half back pairing.
12 years ago we had long and martyn, and kc at 9. it was a solid triangle.
maybe the shuffling is just to cater for injuries, but i think their may be more to it.
didn't we sign hoihai before we saw how good lomax was at 7. and gaskell had a good season last year.
gaskell and lomax will only get better this year. they would be my first choice pairing and i would stick with them regardless of the results. they won't get better in and out of the reserves

Saintokell1974
2nd February 2012, 21:17
im just wondering peoples opinions on the shuffling of the side. royce is talking about moving hoihai to 9 on occassion and fullback also, then bringing (i would expect) gaskell to 6. personally i would like us to set our stall out from the off and stick with it.
i can understand the arguement for versatility, but if we are to be a contender come play offs i think it is vital that we have a solid, consistent half back pairing.
12 years ago we had long and martyn, and kc at 9. it was a solid triangle.
maybe the shuffling is just to cater for injuries, but i think their may be more to it.
didn't we sign hoihai before we saw how good lomax was at 7. and gaskell had a good season last year.
gaskell and lomax will only get better this year. they would be my first choice pairing and i would stick with them regardless of the results. they won't get better in and out of the reserves

I was qite happy with their partnership and feel it would go from strength to strength this season, but Lance was already in the bag I think before they made everyone stand up and notice? All for pressure within the squad to keep people on their toes, but as long as we aren't switching players around too much! At least not half as much as Widnes game!

Harri81
2nd February 2012, 21:28
For me I think it's a good thing. It'll continue to keep competition for places, add a versatility to the squad, and give Gaskell time to develop as a player.

We have been most successful when we had the ability to bring new half back players on to the pitch and give players a rest. Moving lance occassionally around the park will give the likes of roby and wellens a break in a game if needed. Not only that but will give us a different style of play when needed.

I'm all in favour of this and think it'll brings us on leaps and bounds, no longer will we roll our eyes and dread matches if a key half back player is injured as its nothing new for a player to fill in seamlessly.

johnnyl
2nd February 2012, 21:31
yeah, I agree that you cant complain about signing Lance as a half back given that he was signed when we had doubts over the future of both our halves and was yet to find out how well Lomax would play. That said, I disagree with the concept of a player demanding to play a particular position. At the end of the day, you play at Saints and you will play where you are told and for the team. I genuinely believe that we will make the error of playing Lomax and Lance together this season pretty much because one has been promised a position in the halves and the other cant really be dropped after his performance.

Gray77
2nd February 2012, 21:37
As I've said before on other threads, we have time to play around with formations in order to see what works best. How do we know which will work best if we don't give them all a go. Hohaia can play 1, 6, 7 and 9, Lomax can play 1, 6 or 7, Wheeler can play 3, 4 or 6 and Gaskell can play 6 or maybe 13. I have no idea what formation may be best for us, which formation will help us not burn Roby out or which formations we can fall back on if we get injuries. I can't imagine anyone else on here does either, so why not try them all out, as they'll all be good enough to beat half the teams in the leagues and if it means we go into Sept firing then I'm all for it.

KentishBarry
3rd February 2012, 08:26
If it works on the pitch then I'm fine with it.

Talk some sense!
3rd February 2012, 09:16
We’re in an enviable position really as we’re likely to have 4 players on the pitch at any time who can quite comfortably play in the halves. Gray mentions the multitude of options we have at 1,6,7 &9 and we can quite conceivably switch things up from play to play during a game dependent on what is in front if us and what’s working etc. If the 4 players can develop an awareness and understanding between them then we could have quite a potent attacking line.

I’m not so sure though if Royce is the kind of coach who’d play an off the cuff style and it may be that we have a more structured and disciplined setup but Lomax, Hohaia, Wheeler & Gaskell together could cause any team in the league problems

Saint of Hull
3rd February 2012, 09:35
There is also an arguement for playing whats in front of you.

Like has been said provided the players have an understanding of how they play you could change the team dependant on the opposition (barring injuries).

If your playing a bigger team who play down the middle there is the arguement to have faster halves and FB/Wingers to go round them.

If you have a fast team or one with a solid kicking game you can adapt your team accordingly.

As I understand it most teams now play the same systems etc from the under 18's upwards therefore the young lads coming though understand whats going on its only the new lads coming in that need to learn.

Scouse Don
3rd February 2012, 09:37
I'd love to see Makinson at full back with a free role on attack to inject pace anywhere on the pitch....I think he's got the lot.

Talk some sense!
3rd February 2012, 09:45
I'd love to see Makinson at full back with a free role on attack to inject pace anywhere on the pitch....I think he's got the lot.

It's not so much of an issue when attacking but should Makinson move up from full back during play and become involved in an attacking move then either of the halves are more than able deputys at full back. It's nothing new in RL terms i know but it's nice for use to have the ability to switch up the side as and when required.

I must say though and it really does pain me to say it but i'm more optimistic and excited about our team with one of Makinson, Lomax,Hohaia at full back than I am with Wellens. I feel as though my loyalty should be to Wello but i can see it being a year in which he is phased out of the team, it's a shame but it's just the way of the game I guess.

Injury Crisis 2010
3rd February 2012, 10:43
I know the Widnes game was only a friendly and that pretty much gives the team a chance to experiment, but I liked the way Hohia switched plays and interjected by attacking the line aggressively from half back. Lomax and Gaskell and to some extent Wheeler when given the chance do this also, which when you make different combinations of style and pairing it could give defenses some real headaches. Can't wait for a real game, only 16 hours to go COYS.

Injury Crisis 2010
3rd February 2012, 10:46
Sorry 26, missed the key Doh!

Albion
3rd February 2012, 10:59
For those who are questioning whether we have a 'kicker' in the 13 when Gaskell isn't playing:


One player who has been working harder than most is Jonny Lomax, who told Code 13 earlier in the week he still wasn’t 100% happy with his kicking game. His coach doesn’t think it’s a harsh assessment.

“I think he’s being fair enough. I think he’s got to improve in that area, but we’ve got to remember that before last season, he played a lot of different positions- full-back, wing, centre- all over the place, so he wasn’t asked to do a lot of kicking. I think Jonny’s kicking last year wasn’t too bad, just that he didn’t do a lot of it. This year he’s going to be required to do a lot more, so he’s working hard and done a lot of kicking in the off-season.”

Lomax isn’t the only player working on this aspect of his game, however, and Simmons has taken the decision to turn to a former fans’ favourite to help his kickers step-up their game.

“Just over the last couple of weeks we’ve brought Tommy Martyn in to work with all the kickers and try to improve all their kicking games.”

http://www.code13rugbyleague.com/2012/02/03/simmons-nows-the-time-to-visit-the-capital/

paulscnthorpe
3rd February 2012, 11:04
Is there anyone else who has such a diverse job title. "tommy martyn - bar manager and kicking coach, St Helens RLFC"

KelCloset
3rd February 2012, 11:34
Near the end of last season, when Pryce briefly returned to the team, everyone was saying how great it was to have him back, he added leadership and direction to the team, and brought a calmness that we had been missing. So although Lomax and Gaskell are growing into what could be a great partnership, lets not forget that they do have some significant weaknesses, and maybe these can be addressed by Hohaia?

paulscnthorpe
3rd February 2012, 16:26
Near the end of last season, when Pryce briefly returned to the team, everyone was saying how great it was to have him back, he added leadership and direction to the team, and brought a calmness that we had been missing. So although Lomax and Gaskell are growing into what could be a great partnership, lets not forget that they do have some significant weaknesses, and maybe these can be addressed by Hohaia?

I thought that coming away from the gf. They are both still young, and blooding them both at the same time may not be the ideal way of bringing them on. For a large part of mid season last year I thought lomax was very quiet.

Not a dig at either of them, both will be excellent to the club in future

Talk some sense!
3rd February 2012, 16:31
I thought that coming away from the gf. They are both still young, and blooding them both at the same time may not be the ideal way of bringing them on. For a large part of mid season last year I thought lomax was very quiet.

Not a dig at either of them, both will be excellent to the club in future

Exactly, youthful exuberance is great and Lomax Wheeler and Gaskell will have some great days in teh coming season but you need some guile and experience when perhaps the going isn't so good and things aren't going our way. It is on those occasions when Lance Hohaia can really earn his money.

johnnyl
3rd February 2012, 16:33
For those who are questioning whether we have a 'kicker' in the 13 when Gaskell isn't playing:



http://www.code13rugbyleague.com/2012/02/03/simmons-nows-the-time-to-visit-the-capital/

all that means is that it validates our point because it has been identified as a weakness. Just because we are working on it doesnt mean we will be ok, things dont just work like that. I cant believe just how many people that think a player will magically develop by practicing with another player / coach who is good at that skill. Isnt it far better to just play the players that you already have that are already very good at that skill?

Saintokell1974
3rd February 2012, 19:26
yeah, I agree that you cant complain about signing Lance as a half back given that he was signed when we had doubts over the future of both our halves and was yet to find out how well Lomax would play. That said, I disagree with the concept of a player demanding to play a particular position. At the end of the day, you play at Saints and you will play where you are told and for the team. I genuinely believe that we will make the error of playing Lomax and Lance together this season pretty much because one has been promised a position in the halves and the other cant really be dropped after his performance.

most makes sense but surely on JLos performance earning him his spot, gaskells would then do the same?

Saintokell1974
3rd February 2012, 19:46
Is there anyone else who has such a diverse job title. "tommy martyn - bar manager and kicking coach, St Helens RLFC"

A GOD on and off the pitch-

THE best in play kicker this SuperLeague has seen since its inception, and possibly ever!!