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reliable sauce
20th February 2011, 14:54
We have seen Jonny against Wigan and Salford now this season, he shone in the Salford match, i was especially impressed with his support play.
Whenever he received the ball he always seemed to be on a break, and for such a small player he does well bouncing and shrugging off players in attack. He added alot of much needed flair to our offence.

He is pacey, but not the fastest although Wellens as we know isn't the fastest player and has had a great career at fullback times are changing and the best fullbacks these days are always pacey and agile (Slater/Hayne/Tomkins/Matthew Bowen/Josh Dugan)

However he didn't look comfortbale under the high ball, although to be fair the wind was sending it everywhere. Also a little shakey in defence such as when Salford broke the line and Lomax went for the support player instead of the man with the ball who just ran through, however someone tracked back and tackled him, think it might have been Flannery. To be fair again, to be a great fullback you need first team experience and with Wellens injured this is only a good thing for Lomax.

Will it be the end of Wello at fullback this season with Lomax coming through, or could it be the end of Pryce with Lomax going to Stand Off.

Where do you think his position will be?

Northampton_Saint
20th February 2011, 15:39
Hopefully on the pitch and not in the treatment room for most of the season...

I think Wello still has to be #1 so long as he's fit and has legs left underneath him (although if he's out for the whole season as is being reported then it'll be hard to see him coming back as permanent #1 with his age etc.), but with his possible long-term absence now I'd actually go with Pryce at fullback. Pryce has always looked good at #1 for me when he's played there and offers a lot more threat with his pace and power than the alternatives. In Wello's absence I'd play Lomax at #6 leaving Wheeler at #4 (assuming he can stay fit...).

In the longer term though I see Wheeler as taking over the #6 on Leon's presumed departure at the end of the year with Lomax having all of the attributes to end up as a top #1. Everything depends on both players' fitness this season though (and Wheeler going down after 1 game just makes you just want to weep) on their position long term and even whether they stay at Saints at all - worse case scenario is that Lomax and Wheeler both have another disaster season with injuries and Kyle and Leon both leave, leaving us having to probably find a #1, #6 and #7 from somewhere for next season.... Let's stay optimistic though, eh :)

Wanderer
20th February 2011, 15:56
Where do you think his position will be?
Not af fullback, I hope. His defence isn't up to it and nor is his positioning. He is good in attack though, so that might suggest a halfback spot but at present I can't figure where he would be best placed. Probably somewhere where we could get the best out of his attack without having to rely too much upon his defence.

I still do like Jamie Foster for fullback.

saintgeorge
20th February 2011, 15:59
His problem is that good footballer that he is and the fact that he has the heart of a lion he doesn't seem to have a genuine position. His best games for Saints have been on the wing IMO. He could end up being a permament utilty player if he is not careful. He isn't pacy enough for wing or big/pacey/tricky enough for stand off. He needs more regular gametime at full back before he can cement that position - I too prefer the look of Foster there.

Blobbynator
20th February 2011, 16:07
His problem is that good footballer that he is and the fact that he has the heart of a lion he doesn't seem to have a genuine position. His best games for Saints have been on the wing IMO. He could end up being a permament utilty player if he is not careful. He isn't pacy enough for wing or big/pacey/tricky enough for stand off. He needs more regular gametime at full back before he can cement that position - I too prefer the look of Foster there.

I agree with that, I have no idea where he'll end up at the moment.

The Chair Maker
20th February 2011, 16:18
He is only 20 at present so plenty of learning yet to do.

Fullback is a far more difficult position than many people give it credit for, and i think with JL its more a case of getting used to playing in the one position.

As others have pointed out, he has been played everywhere so hasnt really been able to learn the role. IF Wello is out for a few weeks though then hopefully he will get a good run out at fullback and we can see how he handles it, warts and all.

The good thing about Saints is we have a number of decent young creative players. eg Gaskell, Lomax and Wheeler, so we have quite a few options in covering the halves and fullback spot.
Ive not even included Eastmond due to not knowing if he will be here next week or thereafter.

Scouse Don
20th February 2011, 16:54
I think he's got all the attributes for a really good 6.

kirk1989
20th February 2011, 17:35
I agree he hasnt got the build for centre

the skill for 6 (personally i think gaskell puts a bigger shout up to be pryce back up everytime he plays)

he hasnt got the pace for wing

and he needs to be cooler for fb.

i think he could be an excellent centre if he got bigger but other than that im saying full back assuming the cool comes with gametime.

foster is a winger imo. if lauatiti/westwood/willie mason came flying through the line on a good angle....would you be confident with foster standing in their way.

Private Pyle
20th February 2011, 17:36
I think he's got all the attributes for a really good 6.

What he said

saintgeorge
20th February 2011, 17:57
I agree he hasnt got the build for centre

the skill for 6 (personally i think gaskell puts a bigger shout up to be pryce back up everytime he plays)

he hasnt got the pace for wing

and he needs to be cooler for fb.

i think he could be an excellent centre if he got bigger but other than that im saying full back assuming the cool comes with gametime.

foster is a winger imo. if lauatiti/westwood/willie mason came flying through the line on a good angle....would you be confident with foster standing in their way.

As opposed to who? Couldn't see many full backs dealing with these one-on-one - certainly not Lomax

Wanderer
20th February 2011, 18:26
foster is a winger imo. if lauatiti/westwood/willie mason came flying through the line on a good angle....would you be confident with foster standing in their way.
So long as Foster also got a good angle then yes. And the same applies to a winger anyway; well, a winger who wants to defend that is! Foster has better positioning than Lomax, he is more comfortable under a high ball than Lomax, and while he may be skinnier than Lomax at present, he is better on defence than Lomax. Foster also has an uncanny knack of reading the game, popping up at the right places, and is also a bit crafty, which never goes amiss. Lomax hasn't yet shown any craftiness although he does have some very good attacking skills.

kirk1989
20th February 2011, 18:38
Like i said its only my opinion....Ive always thought Foster was a winger from when he played for Brook up until now. he does more damage on the wing and is at less risk. I agree with your points though and i will pull back my criticism as if a big SR came flying through the line. i would only trust Wellens and i was unfair in the comparison... He does read the game extremely well but i think his comfort under the high ball is more suited to winger as in the modern day a FB only has to deal with 2/3 bomb a game where our wingers seem to be bombarded with ariel kicks. So i stick by Foster is a winger and would be a good one with meli and in future wheeler on the inside of him.

I personally like Lomax at FB because im a fan of the Fb being an attacking weapon like the aussies play it. The fb sweeping behind the attacking line and jumping in when eastmond/pryce/gaskell etc need a link and another man just like tomkins and slater do. Lomax would be perfect for that role because he is quick over 10 metres to get him through the gap and has the hands to feed the winger.

Wanderer
20th February 2011, 19:29
Like i said its only my opinion....Ive always thought Foster was a winger from when he played for Brook up until now.
I think he has played fullback for the u20s hasn't he?


he does more damage on the wing and is at less risk.
Do you mean injury risk or risk of not having the build to tackle? If you mean the former then he seems incredibly resilient, a bit like James Roby. He just gets back up again after being hammered. As for the risk of being unable to tackle, I've seen him in action a couple of times to suggest that while he wouldn't be able to front up to one of the big blokes, he's certainly effective when running at them! Or when doing one of his limpet impressions! But of course his size cannot be ignored and it is bound to compromise his tackling ability to some degree. God knows he has balls though.


He does read the game extremely well but i think his comfort under the high ball is more suited to winger as in the modern day a FB only has to deal with 2/3 bomb a game where our wingers seem to be bombarded with ariel kicks. So i stick by Foster is a winger and would be a good one with meli and in future wheeler on the inside of him.
Good point about the bombs. I think it is noteworthy that he was placed on the wing rather than Meli against Salford. Simmons tried Meli at fullback against Widnes at one point - aarrgghh! - and at Salford he played him at centre. Methinks that maybe Simmons is struggling over what to do with Meli! Clearly he wasn't going to play Lomax at centre with Meli on his wing.


I personally like Lomax at FB because im a fan of the Fb being an attacking weapon like the aussies play it. The fb sweeping behind the attacking line and jumping in when eastmond/pryce/gaskell etc need a link and another man just like tomkins and slater do. Lomax would be perfect for that role because he is quick over 10 metres to get him through the gap and has the hands to feed the winger.
I wonder who is the faster: Foster or Lomax? I don't know. Lomax definitely has the edge on Foster for attacking skills. But in terms of reading the game, confidence under the high ball, retaining the ball too (has Foster lost possession yet?), having a great boot on him and defence (bar size), Foster has the edge on Lomax. It's a tricky call. I can see your point. I still feel disappointed, though, that Foster didn't get a full game there to build on his fifteen minutes at Cardiff.

Albion
20th February 2011, 20:23
The problem with J-Lo is the fact he is branded as a 'utility' player. He could play anywhere in the backs and he even could play at hooker.

There is a fine line between putting a youngster in the team in any position to gain first team experience and not allowing them to learn the craft of a specialised position.

IMO, FB should be his position in the future as for me he is the natural player to take over from Wello when he does eventually retire. I think Gaskell looks the better prospect at 6 and I couldn't see him being played anywhere else apart from at 1.

The offensive positioning of playing 1 and 6 is not too dissimilar, so the difficulty comes when we don't have ball in hand. As people have pointed out, his positioning play at FB can be questioned but this will come with experience and learning the craft. It's hard to just expect someone to have the instincts to be able to position themselves (maybe what we have been used to with Wello) it will come with game time at FB and with Wello being injured atm, it gives us a really good look at how he will cope in that position.

ploughman
20th February 2011, 20:28
i think lomax is a full back.as was said,it takes time to learn his craft,and he couldnt have a better mentor.as for his height,5'10,well thats the same as billy slater,and its not done him much harm !

Wanderer
20th February 2011, 23:52
It's hard to just expect someone to have the instincts to be able to position themselves (maybe what we have been used to with Wello) it will come with game time at FB and with Wello being injured atm, it gives us a really good look at how he will cope in that position.
Except Foster has those instincts already. He displayed them from game one. And Foster only started playing in the first team about halfway through last season.

Albion
21st February 2011, 12:46
Except Foster has those instincts already. He displayed them from game one. And Foster only started playing in the first team about halfway through last season.

I prefer Foster on the Wing tbh.

I think a true FB supports every possible moment (as Lomax did on Friday), be comfortable on the ball, has good defensive qualities and be able to position themselves well. I can't say that Foster excels in all areas apart from positioning, the modern FB position I feel now is more about what they can do in attack rather than how good they can position themselves.

SaintAdam
21st February 2011, 20:17
We have seen Jonny against Wigan and Salford now this season, he shone in the Salford match, i was especially impressed with his support play.
Whenever he received the ball he always seemed to be on a break, and for such a small player he does well bouncing and shrugging off players in attack. He added alot of much needed flair to our offence.



Will it be the end of Wello at fullback this season with Lomax coming through, or could it be the end of Pryce with Lomax going to Stand Off.

Where do you think his position will be?

Eastmond might be on his way out and if lomax has the potential to produce those all important kicks then he could be an ideal replacement. Game against the Catalan Dragons a week on Saturday could be an ideal game to try him. I mean like you sed at the Salford game he was looking for breaks and he can Bounce and shrug off players so why not give him a chance.

Northampton_Saint
21st February 2011, 21:43
I too see Foster as a probable future #1 as well but Lomax could easily settle into a quality #1 when he gets a bit more experience. I do worry that he has the look of a potential modern day Mark Bailey at the moment, being equally good in many positions, but not quite good enough to be first choice in any of them. For me he's just a bit too small for a centre, a little too slow and/or small for a wing and not quite creative enough for SO (Wheeler looks a shoe-in for the long-term #6 post-Leon if he can stay fit). Fullback seems his best bet for a long-term permanent position to me. We shall see.

wardies love child
21st February 2011, 22:27
I watched j lo many times at stand off as a kid and he reminded me of Edwards. Always hanging around for the ball off a forward on every drive. Great support player. He doesnt hold back either when takes it in. However a Bailey or vievers I agree with. He's not quite the best in any given position but like most peoples thinking it's probably full back long term if we keep him. I liked foster at full back also

reliable sauce
27th February 2011, 14:56
Lomax had a good solid game at centre again.
He is really producing a claim for a starting spot when we have a fully fit squad.

As stated before he can bounce off playes and make quality line breaks.
If Wheeler is fit i would definately try Lomac at stand off against Catalans come this weekend.

As soon as Pryce returns drop Eastmond if he doesn't up his game for Lomax/Gaskell

ploughman
27th February 2011, 14:58
Lomax had a good solid game at centre again.
He is really producing a claim for a starting spot when we have a fully fit squad.

As stated before he can bounce off playes and make quality line breaks.
If Wheeler is fit i would definately try Lomac at stand off against Catalans come this weekend.

As soon as Pryce returns drop Eastmond if he doesn't up his game for Lomax/Gaskell

applying logic to your post,if you dont think eastmond is up to it,why wait for pryce to return before we drop him?

reliable sauce
27th February 2011, 15:11
Applying logic to your reply, that would leave us with hardly any experience in the halves, let's see if Eastmond can up his game and put some effort in, he has to hit form at some point. If he doesn't start performing to a high standard within the next 2 matches, that's when you look at dropping him, even without Pryce in the team.

ploughman
27th February 2011, 15:17
Applying logic to your reply, that would leave us with hardly any experience in the halves, let's see if Eastmond can up his game and put some effort in, he has to hit form at some point. If he doesn't start performing to a high standard within the next 2 matches, that's when you look at dropping him, even without Pryce in the team.

what i am saying is this,you either drop him now or not at all,regardless of pryce being fit or not.if he's good enough to play without pryce,he's certainly good enough to play with him.playing with a more experienced half back partner will also benefit his game.we talk of eastmond as if he is an experienced half back.he's only played half a season there in super league.i'm not sticking up for the lad,just trying to put things into perspective

reliable sauce
27th February 2011, 15:21
what i am saying is this,you either drop him now or not at all,regardless of pryce being fit or not.if he's good enough to play without pryce,he's certainly good enough to play with him.playing with a more experienced half back partner will also benefit his game.we talk of eastmond as if he is an experienced half back.he's only played half a season there in super league.i'm not sticking up for the lad,just trying to put things into perspective

I see your point, and i have to say i agree in parts.
Pryce returning will give Eastmond more direction and hopefully restore some confidence for the lad.
We need Pryce back, our passing game has been terrible and we need to spread the ball outwide as our play has been so predictable up the middle.

However it's more of the effort being put in, although he didn't play fantastic (still better than how Eastmond played) Gaskell played his heart out against Warrington, and Eastmond simple isn't doing this.

ploughman
27th February 2011, 15:23
I see your point, and i have to say i agree in parts.
Pryce returning will give Eastmond more direction and hopefully restore some confidence for the lad.
We need Pryce back, our passing game has been terrible and we need to spread the ball outwide as our play has been so predictable up the middle.

However it's more of the effort being put in, although he didn't play fantastic (still better than how Eastmond played) Gaskell played his heart out against Warrington

agree,as well as gaskell as played,we have really missed pryce

FosterFan1987
27th February 2011, 17:41
I would pick Lomax to play over Wheeler every time.

Apart from Foster, he is the only youngster I feel comfortable watching knowing he is giving 100% and can handle the big challenges of Super League.

Gaskell is also putting the effort in.

Div
27th February 2011, 17:49
I would pick Lomax to play over Wheeler every time.

Apart from Foster, he is the only youngster I feel comfortable watching knowing he is giving 100% and can handle the big challenges of Super League.

Gaskell is also putting the effort in.


I dont see any lack of effort on Wheeler's part. He is a decent player just been unlucky on the injury front.

Lex
27th February 2011, 17:51
Foster is best left on the wing. With modern SL, he is less likely to be needed to have totally sound positional and defensive abilities. The game is played mostly down the middle, so his defence would be tested more at FB.

Wanderer
27th February 2011, 18:01
I would pick Lomax to play over Wheeler every time.

Apart from Foster, he is the only youngster I feel comfortable watching knowing he is giving 100% and can handle the big challenges of Super League.
I have to say that is rubbish. Wheeler is tireless in defence and attack when he plays. Not only that but he has a good rugby brain and some craft. I've yet to see any evidence of craft from Lomax. However, Lomax also works his butt off and was definitely one of our better players on Friday night. I love it when he plucked those wayward passes of Kyle's out of the air. Wheeler needs his body to give him a chance to play rugby league. But that applies to Lomax too. Gaskell worked hard too but it's too early to say yet with him whether he is capable of making the step up to first grade on a regular basis. Only time and experience will tell us.

Houghwood Saint
27th February 2011, 18:10
I have to say that is rubbish. Wheeler is tireless in defence and attack when he plays. Not only that but he has a good rugby brain and some craft. I've yet to see any evidence of craft from Lomax. However, Lomax also works his butt off and was definitely one of our better players on Friday night. I love it when he plucked those wayward passes of Kyle's out of the air. Wheeler needs his body to give him a chance to play rugby league. But that applies to Lomax too. Gaskell worked hard too but it's too early to say yet with him whether he is capable of making the step up to first grade on a regular basis. Only time and experience will tell us.

I think of all the youngsters Wheeler could make the biggest impact for Saints if only he could stay fit!

ploughman
27th February 2011, 18:10
if i had to put money on it,i would think gaskell,given time, will be the best of the lot

wabo
27th February 2011, 18:10
Long term I see him as a fullback.

His positioning and awareness may come in that role given time. Wellens was a 7 IIRC before he broke into the 1st team and was used as a utility man early on in his career before he grew into the fullback role, therees nothing to suggest Lomax cant do the same.

To be succesful in the modern game a fullback is an extra attacking option, the top two teams for me this year dont have sound defensive fullbacks, they have talented ball players that can chime into the attack and make things happen in Tomkins and Hodgson.

It would be cruel to suggest Wellens is past it, but in an attacking sense he rarely offers anything going forward anymore.

Northampton_Saint
27th February 2011, 21:13
At this stage, out of the 3 (Lomax/Wheeler/Gaskell) Wheeler looks by far the best prospect (if he can ever manage to string more than 3 games at a time together). He has all the attributes to develop into a top-notch #6 standing on his head. Lomax just doesn't look to have quite the same kind of class or potential and looks most likely to end up a good but not great #1, and it's a bit too early to decide on Gaskell one way or another yet for me. He needs a few more games to rebuild his confidence after his mauling on Friday and then we can start to see what he's made of.

reliable sauce
28th February 2011, 18:34
Lomax has earned himself a place in the 'England Knights'

yogi bear
1st March 2011, 04:14
I've a sneeky feeling his best position could be hooker - did he once play there at Wakey away and have a blinder ?

Trouble is this would mean being second fiddle to the best player in SL.

southernsaint7
1st March 2011, 07:39
I've a sneeky feeling his best position could be hooker - did he once play there at Wakey away and have a blinder ?

Trouble is this would mean being second fiddle to the best player in SL.

if so its not done roby much harm playing second fiddle to the best hooker in the country

eddiewaringsflatcap
1st March 2011, 09:12
I'd like to see Lomax given a go at 7. Its unlikely, I know, but I just think he'd prosper there. he has the right physical attributes for that position and I reckon he's got a good rugby brain. In the end I'll trust Royce to make the call because there are several 'promising' youngsters right now, and it is natural that some may fall by the wayside.

Saint Simon
1st March 2011, 11:10
Whenever i've seen him play in the halves he's done a good job

Two Wheeled Saint
1st March 2011, 11:12
I still do like Jamie Foster for fullback.
So does my daughter o_O

Woodsy79
1st March 2011, 12:22
I would pick Lomax to play over Wheeler every time.
Apart from Foster, he is the only youngster I feel comfortable watching knowing he is giving 100% and can handle the big challenges of Super League.

Gaskell is also putting the effort in.

At a recent testimonial it was in Scullys opinion that Wheeler is the best young prospect at the club......and that included Eastmond.

Albion
1st March 2011, 13:59
At a recent testimonial it was in Scullys opinion that Wheeler is the best young prospect at the club......and that included Eastmond.

This has been said of him from when he was at school, coaches have said that he has the potential to be the best player in England...but the lack of game time has affected his chances so far of gaining valuable experience.

Spider Ski
1st March 2011, 14:01
At a recent testimonial it was in Scullys opinion that Wheeler is the best young prospect at the club......and that included Eastmond.

Scully would say that. It's two biscuits standing up for one and the other.

Albion
1st March 2011, 14:04
To be succesful in the modern game a fullback is an extra attacking option, the top two teams for me this year dont have sound defensive fullbacks, they have talented ball players that can chime into the attack and make things happen in Tomkins and Hodgson.

This is the point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread...People seem to not understand the role of a modern day FB.

When ball is in hand, there are four key attacking players: 1, 6, 7 and 9

Could you really see Foster being used in a set move on the try line? The easy answer to that is no, so Foster should be used only as a winger, to finish out-wide, not create centrally.

Lomax on the other hand will suit this role IMO, it is similar to the position of 6 in an attacking sense.

Wanderer
1st March 2011, 14:21
Could you really see Foster being used in a set move on the try line? The easy answer to that is no, so Foster should be used only as a winger, to finish out-wide, not create centrally.

Lomax on the other hand will suit this role IMO, it is similar to the position of 6 in an attacking sense.
Interesting.

According to some, including maybe yourself (I can't remember) Lomax's defensive vulnerabilities/slight lack of positional sense in defence can be put right over time but it would seem that any deficiencies Foster may have (and I am not saying does have) in attack cannot?

Reacher
1st March 2011, 14:27
I think Lomax will be utilised in the centres or stand off. He has great footwork, quick feet and a good step. Even with limited ball against Wire, he made some half breaks. He does not strike me as a creative organiser type of half back, I really do feel he is in the Benji Marshall mould (not in any way trying to say he is as good)

Albion
1st March 2011, 14:30
Interesting.

According to some, including maybe yourself (I can't remember) Lomax's defensive vulnerabilities/slight lack of positional sense in defence can be put right over time but it would seem that any deficiencies Foster may have (and I am not saying does have) in attack cannot?

Creativity is not something that can be taught IMO. You are either creative or you're not, it's that simple.

On the other hand defence can be taught through technique and positioning comes with experience.

Wanderer
1st March 2011, 14:43
Creativity is not something that can be taught IMO. You are either creative or you're not, it's that simple.
And you know that Foster isn't creative how exactly? He's played all of about 15 minutes at fullback, against Wigan. (Oh, and what happened in that last fifteen minutes?)


On the other hand defence can be taught through technique and positioning comes with experience.
Meli is a prime example of how that is not always the case.

The Yellow Giraffe
1st March 2011, 15:16
Like i said its only my opinion....Ive always thought Foster was a winger from when he played for Brook up until now.

He actually played mostly at centre for our reserves/20's/18's/academy/whatever you want to call them.

Albion
1st March 2011, 22:59
And you know that Foster isn't creative how exactly? He's played all of about 15 minutes at fullback, against Wigan. (Oh, and what happened in that last fifteen minutes?)


Meli is a prime example of how that is not always the case.

Firstly your repetitive gripe with Meli has nothing to do with this. FWIW I think meli is good defensively.

Secondly, instinct tells me foster isn't creative. It's just like saying why not put TP or Graham in at FB as how do you know that they aren't creative? You just know. And Let me get this straight, you are saying that Foster played a crutial hand in our fightback at Cardiff? All you are implying with that statement is that Wellens isn't good enough at FB as that is who Foster replaced.

Let me ask you this: can you really see foster as a main ball player capable of being a half-back? It speaks volumes that people can't decide whether to put J-Lo in at 1 or 6, when people only say Foster could play wing, centre or fullback