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Lygase
8th February 2011, 19:07
Considering the sheer scale of the restoration required as part of the planning application, I wonder when they're going to crack on with it?

And what will it be (unless it's been said and i've missed it) maybe a 'museum' to the club, i'd have guessed club shop, but thats been factored into the stadium itself

anyone got any insider info?

Wanderer
8th February 2011, 19:09
Everyone went very silent on the bottle shop shortly after it was raised as a problem. There has been no mention of it in dispatches for ages now. I just assumed the inconvenience had been dealt with by some nifty means.

Lygase
8th February 2011, 19:13
yea, i thought the same, seeing as it was an integral part of the planning application, i'd assume there'd be some sort of caveat that it must be completed within an agreed timescale. It wouldn't make much sense to build the stadium, tescos, then come back and sort that place out.......

BTW, anyone got any pics of it, inside perhaps?

Wanderer
8th February 2011, 19:46
i'd assume there'd be some sort of caveat that it must be completed within an agreed timescale.
Hopefully some time within the next 100 years! ;)

The Chair Maker
8th February 2011, 20:36
As i understand it, all they are doing with the Bottle shop is tidying it up and making it safe.

Its not going to be completely rebuilt.

Wanderer
8th February 2011, 20:42
Back in the days of waiting for everything to actually start happening, though, I remember a hoo-ha being made over the bottleshop and it costing over a million to do as required by the council as per its status as a listed building. I take it all that was quietly shuffled away somewhere?

daves
8th February 2011, 20:57
Perhaps they politely informed English Heritage that if they so desperately wanted it preserved/restored then they could damn well pay for it.After all,it's been falling to bits in exactly the same place for donkeys without so much as murmur from the Heritage brigade until they see the opportunity to try to browbeat someone else into financing their grand designs.

Wanderer
8th February 2011, 20:59
Perhaps they politely informed English Heritage that if they so desperately wanted it preserved/restored then they could damn well pay for it.
lol!

It was the Council that applied for the listing in the first place, wasn't it?

The Chair Maker
8th February 2011, 20:59
Back in the days of waiting for everything to actually start happening, though, I remember a hoo-ha being made over the bottleshop and it costing over a million to do as required by the council as per its status as a listed building. I take it all that was quietly shuffled away somewhere?

Just looked up on the planning website and its pretty much as i said.

Only thing to add is that the site will be fenced off and also will be lit up, to make it a bit of a feature. There will also be an information board so people can learn about the history of the building as they walk past it on their way to Tescos or the stadium, and a bench to sit and contemplate how this crumbling ruin nearly scuppered the entire stadium project.

daves
8th February 2011, 21:07
lol!

It was the Council that applied for the listing in the first place, wasn't it?

I would guess so,but not sure to be honest.If that's the case they(sorry,I mean we)can throw a couple of quid in to help the impoverished hippies preserve the ruins.

Paul Newlove
8th February 2011, 21:31
I would guess so,but not sure to be honest.If that's the case they(sorry,I mean we)can throw a couple of quid in to help the impoverished hippies preserve the ruins.

Would make a cracking pub,seriously if you have actually been close up to it a circular bar would look great,c'mon council sort it out lads!

Wanderer
8th February 2011, 21:47
There will also be an information board so people can learn about the history of the building as they walk past it on their way to Tescos or the stadium, and a bench to sit and contemplate how this crumbling ruin nearly scuppered the entire stadium project.
:)

Lygase
8th February 2011, 21:58
Would make a cracking pub,seriously if you have actually been close up to it a circular bar would look great,c'mon council sort it out lads!
thats more like it!

daves
8th February 2011, 22:35
Would make a cracking pub,seriously if you have actually been close up to it a circular bar would look great,c'mon council sort it out lads!


There you go.In no time at all,jobs sorted.English Heritage-pah-amateurs.

The Chair Maker
8th February 2011, 23:02
Would make a cracking pub,seriously if you have actually been close up to it a circular bar would look great,c'mon council sort it out lads!

Its a listed building, which creates all sorts of legal planning issues when trying to rebuild something.
Its a bureaucratic minefield

Probably more hassle than its worth to be honest.

eddiewaringsflatcap
9th February 2011, 09:11
yea, i thought the same, seeing as it was an integral part of the planning application, i'd assume there'd be some sort of caveat that it must be completed within an agreed timescale. It wouldn't make much sense to build the stadium, tescos, then come back and sort that place out.......

BTW, anyone got any pics of it, inside perhaps?

http://risk.english-heritage.org.uk/images/register/1512.jpg

Wanderer
9th February 2011, 09:37
What an eyesore it is.

Saint Simon
9th February 2011, 10:30
Wow, that really is an historically significant building :wink:
Theres thousands of similar buildings like this, yes some buildings are of real historical value and should be preserved, but thats just an average pile of bricks seen in 100's of towns

lecurie
9th February 2011, 12:43
no, that really is a historic building, its the oldest remaining glass furnace in the country,and is a good monument for all the people employed in the glass industry in this town. and there is no way it could be used as a pub, its very unsafe, it used to be used to store moulds for bottles when UG was open

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=51439&highlight=st+helens

luckysaint
9th February 2011, 12:46
Perhaps they politely informed English Heritage that if they so desperately wanted it preserved/restored then they could damn well pay for it.After all,it's been falling to bits in exactly the same place for donkeys without so much as murmur from the Heritage brigade until they see the opportunity to try to browbeat someone else into financing their grand designs.

Not quite sure you can tell EH what to do though!

eddiewaringsflatcap
9th February 2011, 14:16
no, that really is a historic building, its the oldest remaining glass furnace in the country,and is a good monument for all the people employed in the glass industry in this town. and there is no way it could be used as a pub, its very unsafe, it used to be used to store moulds for bottles when UG was open

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=51439&highlight=st+helens

Some quality photos there... Thanks!

Dicko
9th February 2011, 15:27
Just makes you wonder why no pressure was brought on UGB to do anything to the building years ago seeing its of such historical importance,

Rogues Gallery
9th February 2011, 16:47
What an eyesore it is.

Have you or any of your family worked in the glass industry?
Personally I would love St. Helens council apply for and be granted funding for the restoration of that building, it would certainly bring back many happy memories for lots of people in St. Helens and the surrounding areas.

Wanderer
9th February 2011, 17:11
Have you or any of your family worked in the glass industry?
Yup. Half of the town worked for Pilks or another of the glass firms in St Helens at one time. That doesn't change the fact that the building is an eyesore.

wardies love child
9th February 2011, 21:01
I'm with rogues, it should be made structurally sound. Walls completed and roofed. Fence it off to stop any access. It looks good on the link pictures. I'm not a fan of heritage or listed buildings in many cases and I've worked on quite a few and I'm amazed at some of those listed.

Wanderer
9th February 2011, 21:47
But doing all that was what was going to add over a million to the budget for the site to be developed. Who should pay?

wardies love child
9th February 2011, 22:06
But doing all that was what was going to add over a million to the budget for the site to be developed. Who should pay?

The owner with help from those that listed it and those that wanted it listed. I don't for one minute think there's a million quid in making it look half decent externally and closing it up with a nice vintage fence and maybe a couple of sonneti spot lights on it. If I remember correctly it was quoted on here they want over 3 million to restate it as it was.
Looking at the pictures I'd be surprised to see a tradesman say its not a work of art by a bricklayer(joiner without brains apparently). I'd sooner they had fixed that than create the nightmare( sorry dream) in Sutton manor

Wanderer
9th February 2011, 22:33
The owner with help from those that listed it and those that wanted it listed.
I guess that was the problem!


I don't for one minute think there's a million quid in making it look half decent externally and closing it up with a nice vintage fence and maybe a couple of sonneti spot lights on it. If I remember correctly it was quoted on here they want over 3 million to restate it as it was.
£3 million? Oh. I thought £1.5 million was quoted as the sum to reinstate. Even worse than I thought then! No chance of that happening any time soon. It looks in a perilous state; no doubt it will cost a bit just to make safe enough to leave around drunken rugby league supporters.

Agent Mulder
9th February 2011, 23:03
Hopefully (when we get in our new stadium ) we can create a bit of noise and hope the bottling shop falls down.

wardies love child
10th February 2011, 06:49
Hopefully (when we get in our new stadium ) we can create a bit of noise and hope the bottling shop falls down.

Singing and noise eh. I thought it was a stadium for the saints:)
If it don't come down with all the current activity then it's pretty solid.